I don't want to start a "hot" thread but I need to get this off my chest. A nerve was really struck with me at a site-not-to-be-named today. I should have left a particular thread alone since it was clear exactly where the OP was trying to take it. The only reason I'm typing here instead of there is because, after reading his response, I know it won't do any good. It just doesn't make sense that the message has to be "buy a hybrid or don't even bother." It makes me feel like there's yet another class of elite that I'm supposed to belong to. I could have sworn the goal was to save as much fuel as possible, period. Hybrid owners here, please don't take offense. I haven't deluded myself into thinking that all, or even most or many hybrid owners/drivers have that attitude. It's just that a vocal minority has a way of tarnishing the whole thing for me. Sorry, I'll quit whining. It's a good thing this site exists, otherwise I don't think there would be any place for me to go with my ridiculous dream of better fuel economy with inexpensive technology
As a hybrid owner I do not take offense. I know exactly what you are saying. Some hybrid owners think no car can even come close to the FE of a hybrid. They should come here to see what the members here can do with and without hybrids.
CNN recently did a spot on "Prius Backlash". The Prius Driver came horribly self-rightous. The Hummer then the Escalade driver also though they were "special". All of them were disgusting. Hybrid engines while a good thing are just part of the solution. The Insight depends on lightweight material and aerodynamics along with an efficient engine.
Hi All: ___So what did I miss? Can someone at least repost his statements here for all to see? ___In the bigger scheme of things, most hybrids’ can take down their non-hybrid siblings in just about any driving scenario one could imagine. That being said, they are not only very costly, the driver has to place a lot of effort into taking them to their natural max FE limits just as we do in our non-hybrid’s in many cases. Because most will not use the techniques we use minute by minute, it leaves a rather large opening to drive through in which the non-hybrid pilot can do some bragging of his own. It just depends on how far the hybrid owner is willing to take it and from my thousands of hours of reading and responding to hybrid and non-hybrid sites posts; most simply don’t have the patience ___To go along with that, I bet Phil and Brick would walk from one end of the earth to the other to get their hands on a well setup HCH-I or Insight just to experience lean burn at 80 and 105 + mpg’s while simply traveling down the highway. It is that kind of experience if I do say so myself! ___Good Luck ___Wayne
I second that. With what I know now I'll bet that I could have done better with my '02 Explorer 4X4's 17MPG that I traded in for the '05 FEH. And Brick, you seem to have achieved better than the EPA on your '02 Accord, congratulations. This site is called CleanMPG and is open to all who wish to better their mode of transportation's efficiency. After 36 years of driving and having it become a chore, I now find it to be a bit fun again and I am saving money too boot
ARGH dont you hate it when you type up something, and then suddenly after all this time waiting for a link to finally appear it DOES and then when you hit BACK all what you typed is all gone! TO make matters worse the site you wanted to visit isn't still back up GRRRRRRRR man and i had something good to say too ;( if i can remember anything it typed up, Bob can do better than 50 mpg, hybrid is not for the masses, no matter what you drive you don't need a GREEN label on your car to remove your gas guzzer status. The gas guzzer status begins with YOU by changing your driving style right now! Everyone gets a car by their loved blessing and so anyone that has one can get good mileage if they given themselfs a chance to try. If not and by believing only a hybrid can get good mileage is not trying at all. Well one thing for sure I saw that thread and thought, "maybe its just Bob" then i posted one more reply. since GH is down i'll paste this here and do with it tommorow! I wonder if Bob would take my challenge or word me down with some of his engineering knowledge? Sounds like not enough driving to me
Brick, Although I can't get to that site right now (it has been down a lot) I can imagine which thread you are talking about. I have been watching that one for that past day or two. Bob comes off as the know it all authority on not only hybrids, but non-hybrids also. I decided that it would be counterproductive to argue with him, so I just make sure that I keep my mileage updated so my actions can keep speaking for me. Phil, It seems to me that something that Bob wrote awhile ago is what got you over here in the first place. After reading through your response, It is clear to me what Bob's response will be.... Coasting in neutral is illegal. Coasting with the engine off is illegal and dangerous. Of course it is no different for me than what the Prius does in certain circumstances. Since I have no power steering, the only remotely dangerous thing is losing power brakes after 3 or 4 uses. Still, I have used that technique over the past 20 years with manual transmission equipped vehicles and never had an incident or experienced abnormal wear or accelerated maintenance schedules. ANyway, good luck with your battle with Bob. It will be fun to watch. I wonder how others will respond?
I didn't want to re-post the comments here, mainly because I didn't want to turn something silly into something harmful to cleanmpg. The cliffnotes version is that an individual has started and currently dominates a thread attempting to dispell some "myth" that a non-hybrid car could be built to match the fuel economy of a hybrid. Despite having been directed to several non-hybrids that have actually done better than he has done in his hybrid (in one case over the course of 65,000 miles) he casts them aside as irrelevant or "not reproduceable" for one silly reason or another. Reasons to care: we know that you can get excellent mileage in current production non-hybrid vehicles. Can you imagine what would happen in this "impossible" optimized non-hybrid? But what happens when everybody believes that you need a hybrid power train to get good gas milege? People who don't have one won't try for better FE if they think it won't do any good. What would happen if manufacturers believed the same thing? Well, that pretty much eliminates the market for inexpensive fuel efficient cars. Spreading this kind of nonsense can do only harm. Heck yeah! I'm telling you, if I had in the range of $13,000 that I literally had to spend, I would be out looking for a used MT Insight.
"Greener Than Thou...." {gag me!} I did post at the other forum a hypothetical situation of hybrid vs non-hybrid along a very long highway streach - say I10 in Arizona and New Mexico. I would not expect much difference becauce the cruise would mimimumize the need for the hybrid component. In fact, I'd bet it would show up HSD drives. Not typical driving, but my stated point is I'd rather drive a TDI or another fuel efficient non-hybrid than a hybrid Durango. Have not bothered to read the response, but the "know it all" responded as predicted. The real issue is an "expert" is dividing people interested in saving energy. In the past, he has suggested my sig be edited, claimed that dealing with troller Troy Heagy was best done by befriending him rather than ignoring him. All of us need to look at ourselves to see if we are effectively promoting energy conservation.
Smug, greener than thou and just plain condescending. One might consider that trollish, although I am not an expert on the subject.
as the often-posting-at-the-other-site owner of the 1st 'not-supergreen' hybrid, I (still) get several PMs and emails a month from the self-proclaimed greenerati slamming me for not helping 'the cause.' Worse, some yell at me for not using the full power of my HAH, as though I am wasting capability (the 'if you have it you must flaunt it' argument, I suppose.) Why they are at GH at all is beyond me, other than to incite prpblems. Even if hybridizing, for example, an Escalade is not very intuitive or particularly green, the same driver in that version versus the conventional one will always use less fuel. If its mostly stroking their ego, who cares? At least they are at least thinking about it, and using a little less. Sure that extra $5000 on the price may have been better spent as a donation to terrapass or some green group or purchasing a geothermal or solar sytem, but its their money. The operating assumption behind hybridizing big vehicles is that the buyer is hell-bent on having an SUV anyway, and that it is an inefficient use of resources to try to change their mind to any great extent (that is another debate althogether). Simultaneously, of course, there needs to nevertheless be an effort to 'reprogram' that consumer to NOT buy the SUV in the 1st place. 10% less in a vehicle class that dominates over the compact/superefficient class, to me, is worth a lot more than 20 or 30 or even 50% in the smaller class. A little 1st semester calculus would determine exactly what fleet size causes the crossover between which group is saving more, but you get the point. A 1mpg increase in CAFE is a huge improvement, after all. Sure it could be much better, but its a start. Enough rambling. I hope this site remains free of greenerati and simply focused on maximizing what you've got- whatever that happens to be.
There are at least a couple of "need for speed guys" over there that seem to think cruising at 80mph is perfectly normal. This week's Time zine talks about drivers routinely going 70 in a 55 zone. I don't expect everyone to drive Civics and Prius', but Escalades just rub me the wrong way as an inheretly anti-hypermiling machine. We have always had indulgences, but the last twenty years it seems vehicles and fast foods have been supersized.
fortunately the supersized meal phenomenon has gone the way of the Atkins' diet...with large SUVs to follow...
Some times I wonder if they even know what a hybrid is. I think it has to have a battery.... LMAO. Dont tell anybody Waynes nuke plant and coal fired electric plants are hybrids. My ribs are hurting from laughing....
i stop trying, i'll just let him win. Guys like him made me drive like a 30 mpg segment today gah ~! not to mention getting flamed here http://www.7thgencivic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=258611 was just as bad. I will continue to convince those that need more of my help rather than those kind of guys who believes engineering will save us all... more like we can save ourselfs just by changing the way we do and think things, thank you very much. As for those civic guys, I dunno.
Just taking a glance at that thread, it looks like a lot of them will be watching the next Fast & Furious movie this summer. One members' sig: God must love stupid people - he made so many of them. I'd say that forum is very "godly".
