Shot across the bow signaling the diesel invasion of America is about to begin.

Hi All:

___Just a few pics so far.

Ryan and Doug delivering the iCDTi to the train station in Birmingham, MI.


What good would a review be without a top off? Diesel’s take a long time to top off too



From the gas station down Maple Street to the on-ramp onto I-94 in Birmingham/Detroit, MI. - 94.8 mpg after 13.25 miles of stop light to stop light.


Chicago’s Dan Ryan Expressway at 01:30 AM (EST) – 12:30 (CST) some 509 km outside of Detroit. What was so Express about that nightmare? 55 minutes to cover 3 miles :angry:


Back home from Detroit - 78.4 mpg - 592.5 km out. 0 - 20 mph head/side winds, 50 miles of rain and plenty of cooler temps at night.


From Bradlees to my parents to home - 87.11 mpg after 137.6 km. 95% highway.


2007 Honda Civic iCDTi interior. So its a press pic, she is still a beauty ​

___Good Luck

___Wayne

 

Hi All:

___A few quick notes … As some are saying this very second, “A few quick notes from Wayne … yeah right”

Ergonomics and Instrumentation.

___The seating ergonomics and instrumentation package are superior to anything available I have had the opportunity to sit behind here in the states including every hybrid and many Acura/Lexus models. The drivers side arm rest/sill and center console are perfect matches and both can be used for ones left and right arms. The seats could use a lumbar support adjustment and active headrests (the headrests are close for crash protection which I like but most will complain that the headrests are too close). The Tilt and telescopic steering wheel make the driver ergonomics darn near perfect. The seats are built on a platform of sorts which I believe arrives because the iCDTi may have the tank underneath the vehicle sans the rear due to the included magic rear seats. The Fit is built similarly and I will try and find out more about this. Because the front seats are built on a platform, I cannot rest my left foot underneath the edge of the seat when bent at a 135 + degree angle for a change in seat positions. The seat height adjuster is a pump up unit. It works OK and is probably a lot lighter then the all-automatic powered seat functions I am used to in Accord but it brings down the feel of the vehicle a touch. Once adjusted, you will never touch that adjustment so it really doesn’t matter. I guess?

___I would like to see a few improvements but as the instrumentation is staged, this is a hypermilers dream Very HCH-II like with even more controls including VSC disable located within arms reach of the driver. There is an annoying little display that I may have accidentally turned on when I was setting up the FCD’s. You have a minimum and maximum speed warning. Currently it is set to 50 and 80 kph. The 50 km/hour is disabled (thank goodness) but the 80 is enabled and every time you pass through 80 kph, a small warning appears in the place the iFCD is displayed. It displays for ~ 2 seconds and disappears but that fact it displaces the iFCD for those 2 seconds is my personal gripe. Tapping the i button (information) drops it out immediately however. About the i button. There are 7 functions to toggle through including the iFCD, aFCD, average speed, DTE, time the vehicle has traveled since the engine was started, seat belt minder for all passengers, and one mode turning off the small display in its entirety. I will get pics up of all these different modes later. My only issue with the toggle is you can not go backwards but must cycle through all 6 screens before you can get back to the one you want. For example, I am watching the iFCD and I toggle to the aFCD. One push of the i button. To get back to the iFCD, I have to tap the button 7 times to bring me all the way back around to it. If only the i button toggled back and forth itself There is also no Metric to English units switch unfortunately. I am constantly calculating speeds and distances in my head using the km and speeds * .6 for the conversions. See the preview for a strange iFCD action while in a NICE-On or between fuel cut or the injectors just beginning to keep her running while between fuel-cut (diesel’s do not have a throttle plate so fuel cut is fuel cut and can be seen on the OEM instruments ). The dancing iFCD graphic during this low load/no load operation while still at speed does not make any sense to me?

The Start-button.

___I am not sure I like this Civic’s button based start just as I am not so inclined to say the Prius’ start button was all that ergonomic either? To many times I reach for the key to FAS and bring her back up again using the key instead of the button when I do have to use the gear reduction starter motor. It just throws me off a bit is all. Prius drivers that drive one for a week become accustomed to the button and I am sure Civic drivers with this arrangement will be accustomed to it as well.

Stereo.

___One issue I had with the Prius-II last week was the JBL upgraded system. It was boomy and its sound image was very imprecise. While using the Bluetooth hands free arrangement, the windows had to be shut or driving at a very slow speed to hear and or be understood very well. This base Euro Civic does not have Bluetooth but includes what most vehicles should come with in the base stereo/radio packages. A single CD player with a host of the advanced electronics that read the station, the song and the writer/performer when that info is broadcast. Most importantly, it sounds great for a base level vehicle! The location of the song info is in an upper right display just to the right of instruments and above the radio. The Accord has a similar smaller display in the upper center but this one is larger with a lot more information. Sound quality is not quite as nice as the Alpine NAVI/Radio unit in the Accord but pretty close and one you would not need to upgrade other then for more features. Again, this is the base vehicle, not the upgraded one! The Europeans have a slightly different AM tuning band and yet another band I am entirely unfamiliar with. I think the AM band is called MW and the other unknown band is xW something? I could not tune anything in on that alternate mode/band so I am not sure what it is. The AM band does not exactly correspond with ours given my traffic and weather on the 8’s station is WBBM Chicago – 780 AM. The AM tuner allows 763 and 787. Fortunately 780 AM comes in good enough but it is not quite at the same frequency as the radio is trying to tune while at 787.

Standard Equipment.

Since it follows Honda’s safety philosophy, this vehicle is equipped with front, side and side curtain air bags as standard equipment. The base even includes VSC! Since it is the base European Civic iCDTi, it lacks CC unfortunately. It could use one because after 350 miles from Detroit to home, my right foot could have used a little rest Something rather peculiar at first was the drivers side mirror has a split section to it. Everyone knows how NA passenger side mirrors have that “Objects are closer then they appear” sticker attached and what that looks like. The European Civic’s drivers side mirror has a std. view straight to the back and another small portion where you can see further out into the blind spot of the vehicle. I think it does this anyway? An interesting addition that I am still not quite used to yet is all. PS: The drivers side mirror w/ that split section allows a view to the side almost to where your peripheral vision picks up a vehicle while staring straight ahead. We need these mirrors in the US yesterday!

___Brian, because this diesel only had to match the Euro specs, it is not a clean diesel by any stretch. No gasoline/diesel consuming vehicle is green or clean but the base Tier II/Bin5 that your Yaris meets is about 250% better in terms of PM and NOx then this iCDTi is. When Honda releases this engine (or something similar to it) here in the US, it will also meet Tier II/Bin5 out to at least 120K miles and probably a lot longer.

___HCHCIN, let me pass along my own $0.02. This vehicle feels almost as good as the new Civic Si in terms of handling and is every bit as nimble as the TSX. Probably a tad better given the performance rubber and low CG. This is definitely a drivers car unlike most of the fuel efficient vehicles we drive here in the US.

___Jeff, as we spoke previously in the Pre-view, I know you would love this car. Discs, performance (0 – 60 in 8.5 that tops out at just a touch below 130 mph), handling and highway FE to die for. I will work on the city/suburban/country road FE later this week.

Setup.

___C&D supposedly had this vehicle after the preview we performed 2 months ago. The front tires edges are scuffed and chewed up pretty bad. 3 of the 4 hubcaps where not aligned properly (the air valves were under the hubcaps instead of sticking out of their pre-assigned cutouts). I had filled those tires up not 2,500 miles prior when the car had just 500 miles on the ticker and all 4 valves where in their proper positions per the hubcap cutouts. 2 of the 4 valve caps were missing as well. I will take care of the valve caps with a trip to my local Wally World later this week and I took care of the hubcap alignment while I was filling the Dunlop’s. This was no fault of the Weber Shandwick (the handlers of this car for test drives and promotion) as they have no control over that kind of activity. The visually harsh treatment after the fact saddens me given what a beautiful vehicle she is with just a touch over 3,000 miles on her ticker when I picked it up. I can almost guarantee those yahoo’s were beating the living **** out of the poor girl in the twisties and spooling up her turbo as fast humanly possible and for as long as they could :ccry: She is in good hands for the week so as to give her a nice rest before heading back to Germany for routine maintenance. I have no idea what kind of oil, filter or alignment numbers she is spec’ed for and thus am driving it as I received it. Other then pressing up the tires of course. The owners manual was pulled from the vehicle and would probably not done me much good anyway given it was probably written in German

___This European Civic lacks an OBD-II port so I am relying on the OEM instrumentation currently for FE measurements and the accuracy is yet to be determined. I am pulling more clutch starts then Start – Push button starts because I do not know the condition of the 12V at any instant in time.

___Because of its almost magic on-center feel no matter the wind and road conditions as well as its inability to roll worth a darn, I suspect a higher degree of Toe-In has been dialed in at the expense of FE but it could be the EPS settings? If anyone knows a quick and dirty way to bring her to 0 degrees/in. of TOE, let me know because her lack of coasting down slopes that would make you feel like you are accelerating with the ICE-On in everything else is disconcerting at best and maddening at its worst! I know this thing has more capability and if TOE is setup for a maximum on-center feel, we are giving up quite a bit of FE. I think we all know which I would prefer without question

Rear storage and seats.

___If the Prius hatch is the end all for lengthy storage (it is ), the Civic hatch is the end all for tall storage. You can probably stand up a 4’ tall anything while it sits in the bottom well of the storage compartment to the headliner in the rear of this one. There is a lot of room back there to say the least! I have yet to fold the magic seats down and manipulate them around but it is on my list of things to do.

The stick.

___Because it is a 6-speed, I am a bit apprehensive to drop the stick down from 5th to 6th in fear of catching Reverse instead. The sticks shift lines are in close proximity to one another and it is a bit notchy? I have sometimes shifted from 5th back to 4th because of the narrower channels then I am used to on the US built sticks? Maybe all 6-speeds are this way and it just takes some getting used to. I am getting better but the fear of catching R is making my 5th to 6th shift tentative at best. With sticks, I traverse from one gear to the next as fast as humanly possible before letting the clutch out and bringing the mill back online for propulsion. The small width shift lines are hampering my ability to do that as of this writing.

The CI-ICE’s FE.

___If there is nobody behind; you can bring her up through 4th gear without ever having to touch the accelerator pedal! This thing has unbelievable pull from down low and this trick is something I would have never expected. Great FE while performing this little stunt as well 5th and 6th is where the big numbers come from on the highway of course. There is a display in the upper right hand of the instrumentation package just to the right of the digital speedo called ECO. The LED’s light up in groups of two with 6 maxxed. Once up to about 55 kmh, I try and get her into 5th and peg those LED’s. This allows you to hold down in the 2L - 3L/100Km range per the instantaneous. Once up to speed, keep the ECO LED’s pegged and hold the 2L/100 km/hour by DWL until a climb where your minimum target speeds have been breached. While re-accelerating back up to your high end target, attempt to accel (while still holding 6th for the smaller hills and fifth for the larger ones) at 4L/100 km maximum. Sometimes 5L/100 km is needed Because she is a pure lean-burner, there is no NOx purge as there is in an Insight 5-speed or lean-burn capable HCH-I. What a joy it is not having to counteract that little cycle when it appears. The 2.5 L/100 km was received not so much in a P&G regiment but a simple pulse using the 1st – 4th with no accelerator pedal and then FAS’ing to the next light. Sometimes I would only reach 3rd. I will try and get some P&G knocked out this coming week because if 100 is possible, that is the way to do it. Lumbering along at 32 - 35 mph on a perfectly flat road in 6th while just above lug locks in the 2l/100 km level but to what level (2.0 is a long way off from 2.9)? I will try and figure out with some Trip B resets later on this week? When pushing the Start Push button to bring her to life, it is darn near instant. Honda in their infinite wisdom has forced the Accord into a lengthy 1 to 2 second spin-up before firing off whereas this thing is push button - spin - fire and you are on your way in less then a second. FAS’ and clutch starts appear to be the method for some seriously high FE but I am not sure of the results with this Civic’s inability to coast well due to the meats or the alignment? The 55 series rubber does have a max sidewall of 51 so high pressures without the standard new member questioning “Is this tire going to explode or doesn’t the universe implode when you go to or above max sidewall” is not going to be a question. There is maybe a ½ mile of a barely discernable warm-up hit too. YaHoo!

___Her trip from my home to Bradlee’s home yesterday morning allowed 2.7 l/100 km. We arrived at the Culver’s for the MaHG meet at 2.8. Her total tank FE went from 3.0 to 2.9 after the mornings segment to Madison. I was giving a ton of short distance test rides at the MaHG yesterday and her total tank FE had crept back up to 3.0 l/100 km while her trip segment popped back up from 2.8 to 3.0 :angry: By the time I reached Bradlee’s, her MaHG meet Trip FE was down to 2.8. By the time I reached home, she was back at 2.7 and her total tank FE was back down to 2.9.

Fuel Economy Data.

Column1	Column2	Column3	Column4	Column5	Column6	Column7	Column8
Date	Odometer (km)	Temps (Degrees C)	Segment Distance (km)	Segment FCD (L/100 km)	Tank FCD(L/100 km)	Average Speed (km/hr)	Notes
09-07-07	5700	NA	NA	NA	NA	NA	Picked up in Detroit.
09-07-07	6291	16 - 25	592.5	3.0	3.0	75	Detroit to home.
09-08-07	6667	16 - 25	373.7	2.9	3.0	72	Home to MaHG meet, test rides and back to Bradlee’s.
09-08-07	6774	20 - 23	107.7	2.7	2.9	71	Bradlee’s to my parents.
09-08-07	6804	17 - 18	29.9	2.7	2.9	71	Parents to home.
09-09-07	6806	24	2.1	2.6	2.9	71	To picnic and back.
09-10-07	6965	16 - 18	158.4	2.7	2.9	72	To work.
09-10-07	7130	12 - 22	165.2	2.5	2.9	71	Work to home – Rain for 1/3 of the drive.
09-11-07	7284	9 - 12	153.8	2.8	2.9	72	Home to work in the cold.
09-11-07	7443	18 - 21	159.2	2.6	2.8	73	Work to home in 20 – 35 mph head-side winds.
09-12-07	7591	6 - 8	153.8	2.9	2.8	73	Home to work and fuel starve. 84.3 mpg calculated.
				New Tank
09-12-07	7743	13 - 20	152.9	2.5	2.5	71	Work to home on new tank. 112 mpg to the Interstate. 94 mpg home.
09-13-07	7901	11 - 12	158.6	2.8	2.7	80	Home to work.
09-13-07	8066	21 - 26	164.4	2.1	2.5	75	Work to home. 138.3 mpg to the Interstate.
09-14-07	8220	12 - 14	153.9	2.7	2.5	78	Home to work.
09-14-07	8379	13 - 18	159.2	2.5	2.5	75	Work to Home. 117.6 to the Interstate.
09-14-07	8533	9 - 10	154.2	2.5	2.5	75	Home to Work.
09-15-07	8542	7	8.5	2.3	2.5	75	Work to the gas station.
				High speed trip back to Detroit
09-16-07	9070	2 - 7	526.7	3.5	3.5	97	From Gas station near work back to Detroit – 101 km/hour for 97% this drive other then around the Detroit suburbs.

​

P&G.

___She will eat anything alive other then an Insight that I have driven so far. A Prius which is a P&G’ers dream can compete but it doesn’t stand a chance with similar quality of drivers behind the windscreen of each. You want to go down to 12 mph, 20 mph, 25 mph with the top end at 25, 30 or 40 mph and she will give you 100 +. (See pics later in this thread).

EPS during a Glide.

___This European Civic is EPS equipped. When starting off on a down slope in N with the car booted up, (those that you can get it to roll down anyway), you will be without PS which is expected. About 10 seconds into the powerless glide, the EPS comes to life and anyone that has experienced a PS to non-PS or back transition while in a turn knows it arrives unexpectedly and is definitely unwelcome. Nothing most hypermilers have not experienced in an EPS equipped hybrid before but you do have to understand the EPS’ shortcomings while using an advanced technique is all.

Appearance.

___Talk about an interesting looking vehicle. This thing is attracts more attention then the Insight did. While at the Sunoco station a mile from her pick up point in Birmingham, MI., there was a car guy from Saleen Bodyworks or Painting (I forgot the exact name?) that came over and had a good look. He says whenever he sees manufacturer plates on a unique looking vehicle, he gets interested. Another driver in a Taurus almost ran into a pump when he was leaving that station while rubber-necking the Civic hatch sitting in the diesel island. At the MaHG meet in the Culvers parking lot yesterday, there were 5 or 6 passerby’s that stopped and looked over the vehicle that some of the attendees had noticed during the actual meet. On the way back from Bradlee’s home yesterday afternoon, there was a guy in an 03 – 05 Civic that pulled a camera out and started snapping pics while pacing me down the highway. I gave him a thumbs up. A Hispanic individual in the back seat of a suburban stuck his head out the window as they passed while we were both traveling down the Interstate. He was yelling at the driver to slow down so I would slowly pass. I gave him the thumbs up too Honda should take notice of this kind of activity because this hatch with its unique hatch lines is an attention grabber. The rear end with its integrated spoiler is a meld from the old Merkur XR4Ti (I owned one of those once ) and a Prius by all appearances. Really a unique looking vehicle and this is the base model with plastic hubcaps!

Sightlines.

___The Civic iCDTi’s rear hatch area has a blind spot due to the rather large C-Pillar. The looks and function are great but the large width of those pillars draw a large blind spot that you have to be careful with. I will make more comment about the front views when I take yet another drive but I did not make a mental note to discuss any negatives about the view out the windscreen or side windows so there are probably no issues to speak of.

Ventilation.

___This is an area where there are a few chinks in Honda’s armor. The A/C is great and hardly pulls this diesel down while I had to use it for defrosting the windscreen in heavy rain this afternoon. You can still maintain < 3.0L/100 km per the iFCD while using it on the highway. The fan CFM is where she falls on her face a bit. Even with the FAN maxxed out, there is not nearly the flow coming from the vents as most other vehicles. When revved up that high, there is a slight buzzing as if a leaf were contacting the fan itself? Just a slight buzz that I did not notice the previous 3 days?

___All of this info with pics will be in the final review with more pics as well as more detail and discussion about Honda’s own upcoming exhaust treatment.

___If you have any questions I have not answered or posted incorrectly (this is an entirely different and new car for me), fire away and I will do my best to answer them as quick as I can with the little time I have the vehicle for.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

 

Hi All:

___A few more pics …

Professional shots – Driving and profile.


Top view of rear hatch at speed. – Start Button up close and personal.


Front Corner Profile in the drive. – Working end of the Civic iCDTi.


Both rear seats folded up – Magic Seats – Passenger side rear folded up.


Hatch storage area w/ Carry-on for perspective – Rear Hatch – Hidden compartment w/ stranded vehicle safety gear.


Abused front tires after just 3,000 miles :ccry: - Dunlop Sport 2000 E 205/55 R16’s - 51 #’s max sidewall ​

___Good Luck

___Wayne

 

Hi Sean:

___Clutch starting this thing is as easy as anything else I have driven with a stick. At 30 kph, drop her into 4th and up she comes right up with no jerk. I am getting smoother but have yet to approach the seamless start of the Ranger yet. I am working on it however.

___Compression ratio is 16:1.

___Here in NA, the refiners switch to Diesel A for the colder climates in winter and thus the trucking industry does not shut down during the coldest part of the year up north. There are a ton of additives the diesel fanatics use but from what I have read, you don’t need to do anything other then a block heater when its 20 below 0 (Fahrenheit). Bio-D can gel so you want to be careful with the %. B10 max below 10 degrees maybe?

___The clutch is smooth. With the high torque, it is tough to stall but I have read some have stalled this monster.

___Fas’ing happens as fast as you turn the key. No screwing around and waiting for her to stop dieseling.

___You can borrow it in about 2 years

___Mr. Bill, thanks for the tips on the close nature of the 6-speed. I will mess with the 6 to reverse in the drive tomorrow morning. Those graphs give me a lot more confidence with what I can and cannot do with her!

___As for the Accord, she is an auto so I will not have any problem with that transition unfortunately

___About quick shifting. There is only one reason for the ICE to be running and that is for propelling the car, not for idling down between shifts and back up again to accel in the next gear. I use the finger pull and palm push in it so it is easy to manipulate but the close nature is a bit tougher to get used to then I expected is all.

___ILAveo, from what I have read, the iCDTi has some of the best glow plug like devices in the business.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

 

Hi Mr. Bill:

___Applying power and keeping it applied during the pulse is the most fuel efficient method to a sticks acceleration. The Ranger offers stupid high FE using this method and it appears to work that way with this diesel as well? Are you talking about from a FAS? In that case, there is definitely no rush.

___I was just happy to see your graphics on how far R is out from 6th and I suspect this 6-speed is just like your Si’s too.

___Sean, I was saving this for the review write-up but with some 65 series Michelin Energy’s or Dunlop SP20 FE’s vs. the performance 55 series meats, I think the FE hit from the new emissions gear can be overcome with no losses. Get the toe in back to 0 and its capability may even be better if that is the problem with the shortened glides in this iCDTi?

___Good Luck

___Wayne