CATL May Power the Vast Majority of Future EVs With a Game Changing Na-Ion Battery Design

Discussion in 'In the News' started by xcel, Apr 22, 2025.

  1. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    [​IMG] Na is abundant, inexpensive, safe, and as a Na-Ion battery can be charge incredibly fast with no short- or long-term ill-effects.

    Wayne Gerdes – CleanMPG – April 21, 2025

    [​IMG]
    I have never seen any vehicle charge this fast anywhere on the planet.​

    Earlier today, China's CATL revealed a second generation Shenxing fast-charging Na-Ion battery, which it said can provide a compact EV sedan 225 miles of driving range with just five-minutes of DCFC. Even more amazing, they demonstrated that the prototype could charge from 5 to 80% SOC in just under 15 minutes in temperatures of -12 degrees C/10 degrees F with the battery cold soaked and parked at – 10 degrees C! Again, I have never seen anything like this world class charging performance in warm temps, let alone extreme cold.

    I had to take liberties to build the rudimentary charging profile above as the vid was accelerated and there was some odd timing between the t=30 seconds and t = 4.0 minutes mark as the SOC did not appear to be increasing fast enough during the initial blast at over 1.2 MW and when it dropped off to less than 1 MW.

    The claims of 50 miles of EPA range in just 30-seconds appears close to reality given the curve from 10% to 25%. In addition, the battery is supposed to have an outrageous 10,000 cycles life, more than 10 times what a high end NMC Li-Ion cell is normally spec’ed to and it has a volumetric density of 175 Wh/kg. They did not reveal the energy density within the 1 hour + presentation but they did crush and drill into some battery cells with a load on them. Nothing happened! No smoke, no sparks, no explosions, no nothing. Even while running a 10 mm spinning drill bit through the cell while powering a light!

    My suggestion would be to watch CATLs introduction presentation from start to finish. When complete, I suspect your jaw drops as far as mine did with this 12C rate presentation.


    CATL said 67 new electric vehicle models will be powered by the first and/or second gen Shenxing EV battery before years end. How many will be equipped with the second gen super battery being discussed here was not revealed.

    As mentioned in the BYDs Ground Shaking Announcement -- 1 MW DCFC and (2) Vehicles Capable of Accepting It -- 1,000 Volts, 1,000 Amps, and 10C charging from a 1 MW DCFC, story from just over a month ago, where has all of the American and European scientific R&D work on batteries over the past 100-years gone? The answer? $10s to $100’s of billions of USD spent and apparently little world class product to show for it by comparison to what CATL did in less than a decade all by themselves.

    Adding insult to injury, CATL's Li-Ion batteries in the 23 bZ4X AWD and 23 Solterra were imho the worst packs to be installed in a modern EV released into the US market just 2 years ago vs what this Chinese company introduced today. Wow!

    Considering the above charge profile, the brand new 2025 Lucid Gravity can charge at peak just slightly above 400 KW and hold > 300 KW out to ~ 25%. The all-new 2025 Porsche Taycan can achieve a peak rate just north of 360 KW and hold 320+ kW out to 60%. Those are the fastest charging vehicles available in North America and the CATL prototype can charge at 3 plus times the rate of these world class offerings. Of course, there are no 1.2 or even 1 MW chargers in the US that I know of. We have thousands of 350s and a few 400s but that is where we peak. Could that decision end up being another shortsighted mistake vs the Chinese with thousands of 500 KW stations and thousands of 1 MW plus stations planned?
     
    BillLin likes this.
  2. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    And the rough notes I pulled from the presentation before building the story... I am sure there is a catch to CATL's presentation and intro but I do not know what it could be???

    Another really interesting release by CATL: The 12V NA-Ion battery can sit for a year and still start a car PLUS last 8-years on avg vs 1.5 for a Pb-Acid.!

    12C charging battery thanks to an order of magnitude lower internal resistance and has a > 10,000 cycle lifespan

    75 miles of range (CLTP) in just 30-seconds. .7 * CLTP = approximately EPA.

    At 13:35 into vid: Initial Conditions: 26 degrees C and attached to a 1.2 MW DCFC

    At t = 0.0 min (14:25), 5% SOC, 40 km range CLTC (17.3 miles EPA) and initiates at ~ 158 KW/215 A

    SOC --KW/A

    7% -- 552 KW/790 A
    8% -- 828 KW/1,129 A
    9% -- 986 KW/1,1,278 A
    10% -- 1,262 KW/1,404 A
    11% -- 1,266 KW/1,404 A
    12% -- 1,268 KW/1.404 A
    13% -- 1,272 KW/1,404 A
    14% -- 1,274 KW/1,404 A
    15% -- 1,276 KW/1,404 A
    16% -- 1,277 KW/1,404 A
    17% -- 1,278 KW/1,404 A
    18% -- 1,278 KW/1,404 A
    19% -- 1,279 KW/1,404 A
    20% -- 1,274 KW/1,403 A
    21% -- 1,252 KW/1,391 A
    22% -- 1,197 KW/1,326 A
    23% -- 1,187 KW/1,312 A
    24% -- 1,137 KW/1,245 A
    25% -- 1,128 KW/1,240 A

    t = 1.0 min (14:26)

    26% -- 1,085 KW/1,200 A
    27% -- 1,064 KW/1,172 A
    28% -- 1,021 KW/1,117 A
    29% -- 991 KW/1,084 A
    30% -- 976 KW/1,076 A
    31% -- 965 KW/1,062A
    32% -- 953 KW/1,050 A

    t = 2.0 min (14:27)

    33% -- 934 KW/1,030 A
    34% -- 926 KW/1,021 A
    35% -- 923 KW/1,018 A
    36% -- 908 KW/1,003 A
    37% -- 863 KW/963 A
    38% -- 836 KW/935 A
    39% -- 812 KW/903 A
    40% -- 796 KW/883 A
    41% -- 784 KW/869 A
    42$ -- 774 KW/857 A
    43% -- 756 KW/834 A
    44% -- 726 KW/800 A
    45% -- 721 KW/796 A
    46% -- 707 KW/785 A
    47% -- 703 KW/780 A
    48% -- 691 KW/765 A
    49% -- 679 KW/751 A
    50% -- 676 KW/749 A
    51% -- 667 KW/741 A
    52% -- 664 KW/738 A
    53% -- 659 KW/732 A
    54% -- 652 KW/730 A
    55% -- 650 KW/725 A

    t = 3.0 min (14:28)

    56% -- 638 KW/713 A
    57% -- 631 KW/705 A
    58% -- 620 KW/691 A
    59% -- 611 KW/681 A
    60% -- 604 KW/678 A
    61% -- 597 KW/670 A

    t = 4.0 min (14:29)

    62% -- 588 KW/659 A
    63% -- 579 KW/648 A
    64% -- 569 KW/636 A
    65% -- 563 KW/632 A
    66% -- 563 KW/632 A
    67% -- 562 KW/632 A
    68% -- 562 KW/632 A

    t = 5.0 min (14:30)

    69% -- 561 KW/632 A
    70% -- 561 KW/621 A

    Complete w/ 520 km of range CLTC (225.7 miles EPA)

    See why I mentioned the time frame does not quite fit so I had to create a new one using the rate (KW) and intital and final times while moving the times around to smooth out the data collected. It took more than a few hours to make everything fit which sucked. :(

    ***********************
    ***********************

    I did not build the Charge profile for the cold weather but its time line would have made a more easily discerned curve.

    Extreme Cold Weather Charging - 5 to 80% takes just 15-minutes

    At 14:50 into video, initial conditions were -12 degrees C ambient and -10 degrees C battery temp when attached to a 1.2 MW DCFC

    At t = 0.0 min (09:05), 5% SOC, 32 km range on CLTC (13.9 miles EPA) and initiates at ~ 237 KW /309 A

    SOC -- KW/A
    6% -- 246 KW/312 A
    7% -- 267 KW/320 A

    t=1.0 min (09:06)

    8% -- 228 KW/324 A
    9% -- 286 KW/327 A
    10% -- 293 KW/330 A
    11% -- 293 KW/330 A
    12% -- 294 KW/334 A
    13% -- 295 KW/336 A

    t=2.0 min (09:07)

    14% -- 296 KW/338 A
    15% -- 297 KW/340 A
    16% -- 297 KW/342 A
    17% -- 298 KW/343 A
    18% -- 303 KW/349 A

    t=3.0 min (09:08)

    19% -- 305 KW/352 A
    20% -- 305 KW/353 A
    21% -- 306 KW/354 A
    22% -- 308 KW/357 A
    23% -- 312 KW/362 A
    24% -- 313 KW/363 A

    t = 4.0 min (09:09)

    25% -- 316 KW/366 A
    26% -- 318 KW/371 A
    27% -- 319 KW/372 A
    28% -- 328 KW/381 A
    29% -- 331 KW/384 A

    t=5.0 min (09:10)

    30% -- 336 KW/389 A
    31% -- 336 KW/391 A
    32% -- 341 KW/393 A
    33% -- 346 KW/403 A
    34% -- 353 KW/410 A

    t=6.0 min (09:11)

    35% -- 356 KW/415 A
    36% -- 357 KW/416 A
    37% -- 364 KW/425 A
    38% -- 365 KW/426 A
    39% -- 371 KW/432 A

    t=7.0 min (09:12)

    40% -- 380 KW/444 A
    41% -- 387 KW/452 A
    42% -- 392 KW/452 A
    43% -- 400 KW/457 A

    t=8.0 min (09:13)

    44% -- 407 KW/475 A
    45% -- 407 KW/476 A
    46% -- 409 KW/478 A
    47% -- 411 KW/480 A
    48% -- 413 KW/483 A
    49% -- 415 KW/485 A
    50% -- 416 KW/488 A
    51% -- 417 KW/490 A
    52% -- 419 KW/492 A

    t=9.0 min (09:14)

    53% -- 421 KW/494 A
    54% -- 424 KW/497 A
    55% -- 426 KW/500 A

    t=10.0 min (09:15)

    56% -- 428 KW/503 A
    57% -- 430 KW/506 A
    58% -- 431 KW/506 A
    59% -- 436 KW/512 A
    60% -- 436 KW/512 A
    61% -- 436 kw/512 A

    t=11.0 min (09:16)

    62% -- 436 KW/512 A
    63% -- 437 KW/512 A
    64% -- 437 KW/512 A
    65% -- 437 KW/512 A
    66% -- 436 KW/511 A
    67% -- 434 KW/509 A

    t=12.0 min (09:17)

    68% -- 430 KW/505 A
    69% -- 428 KW/503 A
    70% -- 426 KW/500 A
    71% -- 422 KW/495 A

    t = 13.0 min (09:18)

    72% -- 420 KW/492 A
    73% -- 411 KW/484 A
    74% -- 410 KW/483 A
    75% -- 406 KW/477 A
    76% -- 406 KW/474 A
    77% -- 396 KW/464 A

    t = 14.0 min (09:19)

    78% -- 394 KW/462 A
    79% -- 386 KW/454 A
    80% -- 385 KW/451 A

    Complete w/ 520 km of range CLTC (225.7 miles EPA)

    Wayne
     
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  3. BillLin

    BillLin electric everything with solar and geothermal

    Thanks, Wayne. I'll be watching the video sometime. Did they mention pack temperature change as all that energy poured in? I can't imagine the cold soaked pack stayed cold for long.

    Never mind 12C charging rates. I'd take a flat 5C across our usual working temperature range. Please. :)

    Maybe the packs used in US bZ4X & Solterra starting in 2022 were a subtle form of sabotage. Of course Toyota is responsible for accepting those inferior packs. Bean counters at work. CATL had better cells already at that time. It's all fair in the industrial technology competition.
     
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  4. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Bill:

    They did not provide a thermal graph but they pointed out that they designed the pack with minimal internal resistance so there was no need for special cooling circuits or a "non-starter" physical design to keep thermal limits within a band. When I watched cells being crushed from various directions, punctured, and drilled with a load applied with no smoke, sparks, fire, or explosion, whatever they did was really amazing.

    Given our DCFCers here in the US, these second gen, CATL "Shenxing" fast-charging Na-Ion battery packs would take everything they can output without breaking a sweat. In the warm DCFC (26 degrees C pack temp at t = 0), at 70%, they were still absorbing 561 KW. Far more than any of our DCFC'ers peak power and amperage rate capability. Even the cold soaked pack (-10 degrees C pack temp at t = 0), it was taking on 385 KW at 80% SOC. The 2025 Lucid Gravity and 2024 GMC Hummer H2 packs peak at just over 400 KW for a few percent below 25% SOC and fall off rapidly. The 2025 Taycan peaks at 370 KW and holds above 320 KW out to 60%. So even on a 400 KW DCFC, none of the US NMC chemistry super packs can take what a std. 350 KW puts out. Or at least not for very long. The CATLs take more than a 350 KW DCFCs peak output out to 80% even when temps are far below 0 degrees F!

    There are so many pieces to dissect withing this intro. The including inexpensive construction that CTL said was 60% less Carbon intensive to build than a std. Li-Ion, the anode and cathode do not crack at these huge far > 1,000 A plus charge rates, there is little heat generated, they have a 10,000-cycle life <-- What are the SOC limits on this 10,000-cycle life claim was not provided, and the packs have decent energy density. They did not mention volumetric efficiency, but it was in a compact sedan.

    They also revealed a 12V Na-Ion battery that would hold a charge for a year without any user or vehicle charging, it would not need to be changed out before 8.5 years vs 1.5 (CATL's number) for a std. Pb-Acid 12V, and recycling was a non-issue vs all the work the world puts into place trying to recycle a Pb-Acid 12V.

    All-in, from this presentation and if all of this proves to be true, CATL has won the energy storage war. This technology by itself is going to be a multi-trillion USD industry with China at the top. Which is also why I am so pissed that we - the US and Europe, spent tens of billions of $s on R&D to improve battery performance and we have so little to show for it vs CATL and BYD – two private company’s or so we are told, just doing it.

    CATL also hyped how many PhD’s and engineers they had working on this project and the numbers were quite impressive.

    Wayne
     
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  5. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    Just a day after CATL’s ultra-fast charging battery announcement, Huawei introduced a line of DCFC'ers capable of charging the Na-Ion packs at those incredibly high peak rates. Huawei has designed the DCFCing industry’s first fully liquid-cooled MW DCFC solution designed for HD truck use but can just as easily be used to charge high charge rate cars.

    Huawei 1.5 MW DCFC

    [​IMG]
    20 KWh per minute or enough energy to fill a 2025 Porsche Taycan in 5-minutes even though it cannot accept that level of power today.​

    The 2025 Huawei DriveONE & Smart Charging Network Strategy and Product Launch presentation showed that the company was targeting 98+ % reliability or success rate of any given DCFC experience vs. the Chinese DCFC industry that currently resides in the 60 to 70% range. Sound familiar? Reliability means plug in, charge at expected rates, disconnect and go.

    Along with reliability, the company plans on using ESS systems that are filled via PV and wind energy and dispensing the power via their own transformer designs into the charging cabinets and chargers themselves.

    The data being collected and used to help distribute is cloud based so operators will have real time use and load parameters in which to help improve charging their own systems at the lowest cost in order to meet the needs of the following days expected vehicle visits. All in, they are thinking of not just today and tomorrow, but a holistic approach with ultra-fast charging capability in order to charge vehicles reliably in order to improve mass throughout.

    And of course, they showed their own 2,400 A/1.44 MW liquid cooled DCFC for the first time.

    When used for HD truck charging, 10 to 90% SOC or 300 kWh of energy can be transferred in just 15-minutes!

    The liquid-cooled supercharger uses liquid immersion cooling technology with a service life of 10 years while operating in temperatures ranging from -30°C to 60°C.

    And here we are hoping that Tesla, Elecrify America, EVgo, ChargePoint, and IONNA will someday fulfill the promise of ubiquitous and reliable 350 to 400 KW DCFCing when and where we need it at some point in the foreseeable future.

    Wayne
     
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