More on The All-new, 5th Gen 2023 Toyota Prius Prime

Discussion in 'In the News' started by xcel, Nov 17, 2022.

  1. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    [​IMG] The reveal shows improvements in everything including curb appeal, all-electric range, acceleration, cargo volume, safety, and technology.

    Wayne Gerdes – CleanMPG – Nov. 16, 2022

    2023 Toyota Prius Prime

    A Prime on the plug waiting for your next commute or family adventure.​

    Following on the heels of the all-new 2023 Toyota Prius reveal(s) from Japan and last night in Los Angeles, I am not going to neglect the Prime. There are quite a few details within the following linked 2023 Toyota Prius stories to keep us busy for a while. ;)
    Now in its 10th year of production with a short hiatus in 2016, the original Prius Plug-in w/ 11-miles of all-electric range which became the “Prime” w/ 25-miles of all-electric range with more of everything in 2017, continues to offer local commuting from the plug or hybrid mode for fuel efficient longer drives. That was then, this is now.

    With an even larger Li-ion battery ESTIMATED to be between 12 to 14 KWh total, 9 to 10 KWh useable, the all-new 5th Gen Prius/2nd Gen Prime increases its EV range by what Toyota stated is more than 50%, that equates to an excellent 35 to 40-miles of all-electric range. With my own 21 Prime’s 25-miles of AER offering 33 to 40 mpg depending on if I am driving city/suburban roadways or Interstate highways, 50 to 60 miles is not out of the question for some of us. That is a significant and noteworthy jump in range off the plug.

    Like the all-new 5th gen, 2023 Prius, the Prime brings to the table the same expressive exterior, more normal interior layout, a far more powerful drivetrain, the very latest infotainment tech, and upgrades to its safety suite across the board.

    What is different is in its trim nomenclature with an SE, XSE and XSE Premium trims vs the std. Prius’ LE, XLE, and Limited. And just like the 2023 Prius, the Prime is built on the same second-generation TNGA-C structure, offering a lower center of gravity with reduced weight and increased rigidity.

    What is different this time around is a solar roof that can slowly recharge the 2023 Prius Prime’s battery when parked or provide supplemental power to major accessory’s including A/C when driving down the road. This has been tried in the past and the results were pathetic at best as the power offered could add do little more than run an interior fan to blow out hot air. This build appears to be different as the Japanese release was speaking of up to 750-miles of additional range per year. “Maybe” - in quotes, 500 miles/year range on our own EPA??? With a surface area of maybe 10 to 12 sq ft, I would not expect it to produce more than 150 to 200Ws. That is not enough to run the Prime’s AC except on extremely low output let alone the losses through the transverter to bring Voltages up to a useable level to be used within the car’s electrical architecture. Parked in peak sunlight, I am not sure. More detail is coming on this soon.

    2023 Toyota Prius Prime with the Solar Roof


    The 2023 Prius Prime uses the same steeply raked body shell, platform, and even drivetrain except for three standout upgrades.
    1. The 2023 Prime’s traction battery is now located entirely under the rear seat vs the current gen Prime whose packaging took up about 4” of height across the entire floor of the rear hatch. This increases the Prime’s cargo volume to possibly that of the std. 2023 Prius.

    2. The newly developed Li-Ion traction battery’s energy capacity has increased enough allowing the aforementioned > 50% in range.

    3. With the larger energy capacity comes more current capacity which can feed the Prime’s larger motor. Toyota is stating the Prime’s output is 99 HP more - 220 hp, providing a 0 to 60 time of just 6.6 seconds. Damn, that is quick for a Prius!
    The 23 Prime’s trim walk looks almost identical to the 23 Prius’.

    2023 Toyota Prius Prime SE includes the following:
    • 17” Alloys w/ covers
    • 8” infotainment display
    • 6 USB-C ports
    • Softex and leather trimmed heated steering wheel
    • Rain sensing wipers <-- Std. Prius XLE feature
    • Electronic Parking Brake (EPB)
    • Blind Spot Monitor (BSM) w/ Rear Cross-Traffic Alert (RCTA)
    • Traffic Jam Assist
    SE Options
    • Front and Rear Parking Assist with Automatic Braking (PA w/AB)
    2023 Toyota Prius Prime XSE adds:
    • 19” Alloys
    • Clear taillight
    • Auto Dimming rearview w/ Home Link
    • Two additional cup holders in back
    • Driver and front passenger heated seats
    • 8-way power driver’s seat
    • Perforated SofTex sport seats with red accents
    • SofTex seats
    • Smart key <-- Not on the SE???
    • Qi wireless charger
    • Direct light illumination
    • Front and Rear Parking Assist with Automatic Braking (PA w/AB)
    XSE Options
    • 12.3” infotainment display
    • Fixed glass roof
    • Digital Key

    2023 Toyota Prius Prime XSE Premium adds:
    • 19” Alloys
    • 12.3” infotainment display
    • JBL Premium Audio with 8 speakers
    • Driver and passenger heated and ventilated seats with drivers memory
    • Fixed glass roof
    • Digital Key
    • Power hatch
    • Direct light illumination
    XSE Premium Options
    • Advanced Park
    • Digital rearview mirror <-- Be careful with these. They give me instant nausea.
    • Heated rear seats
    • Panoramic View Monitor
    • Solar glass roof
    2023 Toyota Prius Prime Infotainment

    A duplicate of the std. 2023 Prius, it includes the std. 8” and optional 12.3” central display Toyota Audio Multimedia system designed and engineered by Toyota’s Texas-based Connected Technologies team in Plano. Did I mention that it really works? Like 1,000 times already? ;) An Over-the-Air (OTA) updateable system is also std. Like the std. Prius, what can be updated needs to be found out.

    Dual Bluetooth phone connectivity, standard wireless Apple CarPlay and Android Auto, Wi-Fi Connect, HD Radio, USB data, and a SiriusXM Platinum Plan 3-month trial…


    The Limited’s JBL Premium Audio system includes eight speakers, and Clari-Fi.

    The Connected Services also carry over from the std 2023 Prius with an Emergency Assistance Button (SOS), 24/7 Enhanced Roadside Assistance, Automatic Collision Notification, Stolen Vehicle Locator and Collision Assistance with up to a 10-year trial. Service Connect gives drivers the capability to receive Vehicle Health Reports, Maintenance Alerts and reminders, also with up to a 10-year trial.

    The six Type-C USB ports include two ports at the bottom of the center stack plus two more in the center console, and two at the bottom rear of the center console.

    On the safety front, the Prime duplicates the std. Prius w/ Blind Spot Monitor (BSM) and Rear Cross Traffic Alert (RCTA) standard on all trims. Front and Rear Parking Assist with Automatic Braking (PA w/AB) is available on SE and standard on XSE and XSE Premium. A Panoramic View Monitor is available on XSE Premium. Advanced Park is available on XSE Premium, a hands-free system designed to assist you with parallel parking or backing into a parking space.

    Additional safety attributes also carry over form the std. Prius including Toyota Safety Sense (TSS) 3.0 enhancements. The Active Safety suite includes the following:
    • Pre-Collision System with Pedestrian Detection
    • Lane Departure Alert with Steering Assist
    • Full-Speed Range Dynamic Radar Cruise Control
    • Lane Tracing Assist
    • Road Sign Assist
    • Automatic High Beams
    • Proactive Driving Assist
    The 2023 Prius Prime also includes front corner radar sensors, driver monitor camera, Lane Change Assist, Front Cross Traffic Alert, Advanced Park and Traffic Jam Assist.

    Fingers crossed that there is a 6.6 KW onboard charger inside.​

    2023 Toyota Prius Prime Early Conclusions

    Just like the std. 2023 Prius, the all-new Prime brings to the table an exciting shell that will surely be talked about for years to come. That lower roofline will create consternation for rear seat passengers’ ingress and egress. The question being how often do you load your rear seats anyway? Rideshare drivers? Too bad, to sad.

    The new and more normal driver display in front of the driver moves the Prius in the right direction.

    Its 220 combined HP providing a 6.6 second dash to 60 takes away the Prius’ stigma of being slow even though those that think performance at that level is necessary despite rarely if ever using it. The 37 to 40-mile all-electric range is a huge welcome addition as it not only supplies more non-gasoline use driving, but it also again qualifies for HOV lane access in California. If they move construction to the US, it may once again qualify for the full tax credit. Without that credit, I would not have purchased the 20 and 21 Prius Prime for my own fleet.

    The safety and infotainment upgrades are more than noteworthy as you are now driving a modern looking vehicle with the latest safety and infotainment tech available anywhere. Instead of me bitching about the Prius’ infotainment every few hours when it reboots, I can just drive and never give it a second thought. Ever. Well, maybe not ever but you know what I mean.


    While the 2023 Toyota Prius’ price and availability is expected within weeks, the all-new second gen Prime’s pricing and availability will be held off until the first half of 2023. And if I were you, wait for the 24 when availability may increase and there is an off-chance that Toyota puts a $4,500 to $5,000 rebate on it to make it less than the std. Prius that you will also be considering. That is why I bought the 2013 Prius PHEV and you may be afford the same within 18-months.
    BillLin likes this.
  2. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    All-new, 5th Gen, 2023 Toyota Prius Prime

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  3. billy

    billy Well-Known Member

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  4. billy

    billy Well-Known Member

    Hi Wayne. Yes, I love this new Prius. I would ONLY want the LE model.....17 inch wheels are too big, but 19 inch are WAY too big for me. Question: does this new Prius, hopefully, have a slightly LARGER fuel tank? And do you think Toyota dealers here in the SEATTLE area will price this car way ABOVE MSRP ???? Thanks.....
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  5. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Billy:

    17s are indeed big, more costly to replace, and not as efficient as they could be.

    Pricing is going to be high for awhile. A lot of interest from a lot of people.

    I asked about the fuel tank. Nobody wanted to say anything despite the fact they knew. We will get that spec under an NDA on or around Dec. 5th.

    BillLin likes this.
  6. billy

    billy Well-Known Member

    Thanks Wayne for your answers. Guess what? I am just now turning 275,000 miles on my 2020 L ECO. Absolutely nothing has gone wrong, the car seems to be bullet-proof. Every November I take advantage of the Toyota Dealer's "buy 3 get one free" sale on my OEM Ecopia 422 Plus. Perfect timing to have NEW tread for rainy and wintery driving! I installed (myself) new OEM Denso spark plugs at 165,000 miles, and the old ones looked excellent. Twice so far, I have replaced the coolant and Inverter fluid. Last month I drained and refilled the transmission fluid, Toyota ATF WS, it took exactly 3.75 Qts. The Hybrid battery shows no deteriorating after all these miles! Just wish the car had a larger fuel tank.

    Anyway, I sure hope I can buy a new 2023 Prius LE at the standard MSRP as listed on the Maroney Sticker. But lately around here, dealers have been adding THOUSANDS as a Markup. Crazy!!
  7. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

    It's amazing how much styling matters. I would never consider a Prius in the past because it was so ugly. Now...I would have to look at this if I was in the market for a new car. I 2nd billy's comment about the wheels. I don't think low-profile wheels/tires belong on this car. They will hurt ride and economy.
  8. Trollbait

    Trollbait Well-Known Member

    These tires are border line low profile. Depends on whether you make the aspect ratio cut off at 50 or below it.

    There should be no reason why the 195/65R17 set for the new Prius wouldn't fit the Prime. 15 inch might get tight on the rotor. Staying with the same width there would mean a 195/75R15 or 195/80R15; both sizes as common as the the 19 and 17 inch rim ones. 195/75R16 and 205/70R16 are available; 195 is the current Prius's width.

    Going to the sizes on the current Prius will reduce the overall diameter by 2 inches, and ground clearance by 1. Aero will improve, but it changes the final drive ratio for the worse. The larger diameter is part of the reason why the new model can achieve current Eco trim level efficiency while gaining power and size.
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  9. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    The styling never entered my mind. I kinda like my li'l red spaceship.
    But the 2023 Prime ? Yes, please !
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  10. litesong

    litesong litesong

    From November 30, 2022:
    In the 1800’s even Henry David Thoreau remarked how people valued the particular shape of their homes. My wife loves houses that have “turrets”.
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  11. joshdurston

    joshdurston Rogue Canadian

    I think they are counting on the psychology of paying less to fill a smaller tank somehow equates to better fuel efficiency.
    I love good economy couple with a big tank.
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  12. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    I think a tank that will give 500 miles of highway range is big enough.
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  13. bestmapman

    bestmapman Fighting untruth and misinformation

    It looks good.
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  14. litesong

    litesong litesong

    Never liked gasoline stations when I had to stop to fill up. Here in western Washington state with my small Ford Festiva, when I was using higher MPG 100% ethanol-free gasoline, at times the small non-hybrid 10 gallon tank would take me over 500 miles. I liked that a lot. But I always envied the VW diesel Passat (didn’t envy the diesel) with its 19 gallon tank that would take the VW over 900 miles. With my Festiva, I would take my gastank AND cans, filled with lower priced Washington state gasoline on my journeys into eastern Oregon. I would have a ball in Oregon traveling 750 miles, exiting Oregon back into Washington state AND NEVER had to buy expensive Oregon state gasoline.
    Yeah, long range in western US is really nice.
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2022
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  15. billy

    billy Well-Known Member

    Hi Wayne....Toyota claims the Drag Coefficient is now just 0.27.....worse than the previous 0.24. What is up with that?

    It appears the 17 inch tires are Bridgestone Turanza ER300 Ecopia in 195/60/17.....which is almost non-existent in North America. Tire Rack does not even show that size!
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  16. RedylC94

    RedylC94 Well-Known Member

    Styling is what. Same for the reduced passenger and cargo space, and shrunken hatch opening.
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  17. billy

    billy Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the reply Redy.....but I'm not believing it. Toyota has the ability to decrease the frontal area and design the whole shape to reduce the CD to 0.22 if they desired.....but that may slightly sacrifice interior space. I'm just spouting my thoughts, as one who REALLY cares about efficiency and low aero drag, rather than style or safety....
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  18. BillLin

    BillLin PV solar, geothermal HVAC, hybrids and electrics

    re: drag coefficients - so how do the current bottom two Teslas rate 0.23 Cd and Toyota can't at least be in the same ballpark with their 2023 efficient car? It isn't just the ground clearance that's causing the problem because the Model Y is supposedly at 6.6 in clearance and has rather fat tires to boot.

    Edit: Never mind. I think I have a possible answer. It's the difference between cars with ICE and BEVs... a greater opening into the frontal area.
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2023
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  19. Trollbait

    Trollbait Well-Known Member

    Engine cooling will hurt the ICE aero, but that doesn't explain why the Cd of the new Prius is worse than the out going model.
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  20. Appletank

    Appletank Lightly toasted

    Very uneducated guess, but after a lot of squinting at the gen 4 and gen 5 body panels, the side panels seem to be slightly concave instead of flat, and the rear roof line a little more sharply angled. They lowered the frontal area to compensate, which might be a worry for taller folk, depending on seating position, especially the rear seats. My brother already doesn't fit in the rear seat of the regular pillbug prius.

    So the overall air resistance seems to be the same, (+Cd/-m^2) despite the slightly less aerodynamic fancy styling.

    For as good as the RX7 looks, its Cd is 0.3 or so.
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