Meet the US Spec, All-new, 5th Gen, 2023 Toyota Prius Hybrid

Discussion in 'Toyota' started by xcel, Nov 16, 2022.

  1. thunderstruck

    thunderstruck Super Moderator

    Doesn't matter how cool it is if you can't get one. I tried for 6 months to get a Prius and finally had to settle for a Camry Hybrid. I want a Prius with all the bells and whistles but don't want pimpmobile tires. Here is a video on their future motor plans.
     
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  2. thunderstruck

    thunderstruck Super Moderator

    What about one foot driving and adjustable regen? I do mostly highway driving now, some it rather high speed, and adjustable regen instead of friction braking would be nice.
     
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  3. RedylC94

    RedylC94 Well-Known Member

    ?
    May we assume the 5th generation will be similar to previous Prii regarding regeneration tendencies, i.e., light regeneration if you get off both pedals, none (freewheeling) if you depress the accelerator slightly, and regeneration before friction braking if you step on the brake pedal?
    Or will there be other related options like "one-foot driving," or zero regeneration when you're off the accelerator?
     
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  4. thunderstruck

    thunderstruck Super Moderator

    Off topic, but here's the way it should be done. This channel has some seriously good videos on AEV's.
     
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  5. Trollbait

    Trollbait Well-Known Member

    I don't see Toyota adding parts like paddle shifters, or even major software changes, to allow regen control on the Prime different from the noplug Prius. Unless, they've done such with the Rav4 Prime, the PP will have the same behavior with the same controls as the Prius.

    B will be different, like with the current Prime, because there is a bigger battery to soak up regen energy. It will increase foot off pedals regen while there is empty battery capacity before increasing engine braking.

    Edit to add:
    The Camry hybrid can select levels of B, which should work out to levels of regen with a plug in. However, the hybrid uses the same shifter with selectable gears as the ICE. So it has the hardware to support the selection of braking levels in place. If the new Prius is using a shifter like past generations, it won't. Maybe the Rav4 Prime has it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2023
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  6. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    Although I have no official media shots of the LE or any of my own since I have never seen the LE trim, the 2023 Toyota Prius Build consumer site has the build parameters including pricing and finalized efficiency details.
    • LE starts at $27,450, up $1,165 from the 2022 LE's $26,285 MSRP
    • XLE starts at $30,895, up $1,600 from the 2022 LE's $29,295 MSRP
    • Limited starts at $34,465, up $1,095 from the 2022 LE's $33,370 MSRP
    D&H for all is $1,095.

    In terms of upgrades, the Front and Rear Parking Assist with Auto Braking, aka Parking sensors, cost just $35. <-- This is a true bargain for the LE trim. They are included on the XLE and Limited trims. All-weather or carpeted cargo and passenger mats add $299 to the list. The upgraded colors - Super Sonic Red and Wind Chill Pearl - white, add $495 to the price tag. There is also a $500 Recent College Grad and Military member discount off of MSRP.

    The LE trim with the P195/60/R17 tires provides a 57/56/57 mpg city/highway/combined rating while the XLE/Limited with the P195/50R19 provides owners with a 52/52/52 mpg city/highway/combined rating. I will never understand why anyone would want to increase their tire and rim size and lose 9.6% efficiency. Forever!

    These numbers compare favorably with the 2022's as follows:

    Eco - 58/53/56 mpg city/highway/combined
    LE - 54/50/52 mpg city/highway/combined
    XLE - 54/50/52 mpg city/highway/combined
    Limited - 54/50/52 mpg city/highway/combined

    While the exterior shots are embellished with a blacked-out window treatment, the 17" wheel covers over the alloys look good.

    2023 Toyota Prius LE Exterior

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    2023 Toyota Prius LE Interior

    [​IMG]
    I am not a fan of the parallelogram shaped display bezels, or the driver instrument cluster partially covered by the wheel as discussed.

    [​IMG]

    Wayne
     
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  7. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    I thought I had posted this somewhere around here but here are some back-to-back details from the short lead last month.

    2023 vs 2022 Toyota Prius - F&R Leg Room

    [​IMG]
    2023 Toyota Prius

    [​IMG]
    2022 Toyota Prius​

    The 2023 Toyota Prius is built upon a 108.3" wheelbase vs the 2022's std. 106.3" wheelbase. You would think this would add to the front and rear leg/knee room. The 2023's seating incorporates an ~ 1" lower hip point which stretches the driver out a bit more and that stretch was taken from the rear seat passenger leg/knee room leaving ~ the same room.

    The front seats felt a bit more comfortable despite sitting in a lower seating position. I am not sure why just yet?

    Wayne
     
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  8. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    As many of you know, the wireless Android Auto worked without a single issue either wired or wireless over maybe 100-miles of driving 3 different XLE's that day.

    2023 Toyota Prius Infotainment

    [​IMG]
    Pic taken with my Samsung Galaxy S22+ while unplugged and in wireless Android Auto mode w/ Google Maps shown while also on a call.​

    The LE's spec includes a std. 8.0" display with wireless Apple CarPlay & Android Auto, USB media port -- for wired Android Auto and Apple CarPlay, five additional USB charge ports, hands-free phone capability and music streaming via Bluetooth, plus 3-months of free SiriusXM.

    Wayne
     
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  9. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    Here is my 5th grade explanation as to how the Japanese engineers picked up the massive increase in performance - 0 to 60 in 7.2 sec vs 9.8 sec. of the 2022, and even increased efficiency as laid out above.

    2023 Toyota Prius

    [​IMG]
    Heavily atkinsonized 2.0L I4​

    The 2.0L with a peak 150 hp and 139 lb-ft of torque adds 54 hp and 34 lb-ft of torque over the 2022's 1.8L I4.

    Moving to the electric motor, the 23 includes a 111 hp, permanent magnet AC motor, up 40 hp from the 2022's 71 HP AC motor.

    What I was shown was that the number of poles within MG2 was increased and the stator windings were moved much closer to the rotor reducing magnetic field flux "leakage" and even tighter wound windings to reduce resistance losses. The MGs, inverter/transverter, and eCVT have been shrunk in size reducing both total mass and electrical losses across the system. I am only touching the surface as there was a lot more detail I am missing here. Remember that Cd was increased from ~ .24 to 0.27 while frontal area was decreased by the same percentage to keep overall drag ~ the same. All in, there is a definite performance upgrade but since there were no 23 LE's w/ the 17s at the short lead, that trims efficiency quotient is still unknown.

    Wayne
     
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  10. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    The improved ride and handling is indeed an improvement. There is less body roll while still providing the compliant ride we have come to know. What has improved is both road feel and cornering precision. The 23 Prius with the 19s handles close to what I would describe as Jetta/Golf like and that is saying something. My time behind the wheel was all slower speed city and highway driving. When we get one in the mountains on an off-camber hairpin, I will know for sure but someone at Toyota said "F*** it, let us do this right." ;)

    2023 Toyota Prius XLE

    [​IMG]

    Wayne
     
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  11. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    The 2023 Toyota Prius Safety equipment upgrades...

    [​IMG]

    Along with Toyota's standard Star Safety System including Enhanced Vehicle Stability Control (VSC), Traction Control (TRAC), Antilock Brake System (ABS), Electronic Brake-force Distribution (EBD), Brake Assist (BA) and Smart Stop Technology (SST) that have come with most every Toyota for the past decade, the 23 Prius now incorporates 8 airbags -- driver and front passenger, driver and front passenger seat-mounted sides, rear seat-mounted sides, and front and rear side curtains. The number of air bags are down 2 from the 4th gens with its additional passenger seat cushion and driver’s knee airbag.

    And two additions that my 21 Prius Prime LE was never equipped with albeit the rest of the Prius lineup outside the L Eco was later into the 4th gen’s lifespan. That is Blind Spot Monitor (BSM) with Rear Cross-Traffic Alert (RCTA) are standard across the trim lineup as well.

    The real change come from the 4th gens Toyota Safety Sense 2.0 to the 5th gens Toyota Safety Sense 3.0.

    Toyota Safety Sense 2.0 included Pre-Collision System with Pedestrian Detection (PCS w/ PD), Lane Departure Alert with Steering Assist (LDA w/ SA), Lane Tracing Assist (LTA), Automatic High Beams (AHB), Full-Speed Range Dynamic Radar Cruise Control (DRCC) and Road Sign Assist (RCA). All worked damn good with the RCC being the best I have ever driven/used. For 2023, Toyota added a new active assist system to the Prius called Proactive Driving Assist (PDA). Using the Prius’ camera and radar, this system provides gentle braking into curves or gentle braking and/or steering to help support driving tasks such as distance control between a preceding vehicle, pedestrian or bicyclist. I did not experience this one so can only add that it was included.

    They also added Safe Exit Assist which detects vehicles and bicycles approaching from the rear and alert an occupant when they exit the vehicle, helping to avoid or mitigate collisions with the door.

    The RCC was upgraded as the sensor/emitter now detects vehicles out to ~ 45 degrees off each side of the front sensor vs a~ 30 degrees from the 4th gen. It still gets confused when someone cuts into your lane so keep that in mind and I was able to pull that detail out during my short highway drives.

    As mentioned in the pricing detail above, the LE can be equipped with front and rear Parking Assist with Automatic Braking for just $35. It is standard on the XLE and Limited trims. A Panoramic View Monitor is now available on the Limited.

    Wayne
     
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  12. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    And the final real-world detail that should be mentioned. I placed my backpack into the 23's cargo hatch. you can directly compare it to the 4th gens rear cargo hatch volume.

    2023 Toyota Prius Limited - 20.3 cu. ft. of cargo vol.

    [​IMG]
    The 23 LE has a lower load floor and a 23.8 cu. ft. of cargo vol.

    2022 Toyota Prius Limited - 27.3 cu. ft. of cargo vol.

    [​IMG]

    Despite the longer wheelbase and longer total length, the lower roof and hatch is where the loss of cargo volume occurred. My 21 Prime has a 19.8 cu. ft. cargo volume so this was a gain vs that but there will be limits that some 3rd and 4th gen Prius owners will experience.

    The 2022 Prius LE curb weight was 3,040 lbs. whereas the 2023 Prius LE weighs in at 3,097 lbs. Those extra 50 lbs. probably came from the slightly increased length and width plus larger wheels and tires. I am not quite sure if that is where the additional mass came from, but it makes sense. The lower profile 19s I was driving on the XLEs probably had a lot to do with the sharper turn in and stability but again, at what cost in efficiency and expense to replace. The 23’s 17s and 19s are not even available from the national tire distributors as I type.

    Adding, the 23's Toyo 19s have a tread wear rating of just 300 vs the 22's Bridgestone Ecopia EP 422 Plus with a rating double that at 600. I am not sure what 17" tires are on the 23 LE just yet but I am sure they will be more expensive than the 15's on the 4th gen.

    Wayne
     
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  13. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Bill:
    I have a meeting with some Toyota folks on Monday to discuss a number of Prius "items" incl. availability as I need to knock out a calibrated Speed vs FE with the LE and its 17s along with the XLE/Limited with their 19s. I have not seen one on the road or at local dealerships in CA or TN yet but supposedly there were a few sold in January somewhere?

    Wayne
     
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  14. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    And the early first drive conclusions.

    2023 Toyota Prius “Beyond Zero” Badge

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    The 2023 Prius is the first Toyota vehicle to wear this new “Beyond Zero” badge. While a bit of a misnomer given the Prius and Prius Prime are not zero emission vehicles, Toyota and the Prius have done more to reduce personal transportation CO2 emissions than any other automaker since the first gen and its Echo platform design. That includes Tesla!

    Even more interesting, that first 2001 Prius sedan with its 41 mpg rating (current EPA rating adjusted), 0 to 60 mph time of 13 seconds in part due to its diminutive 104 HP output 1.5L I4, included 88.6/11.8 cu ft of Passenger/Cargo Volume, was the first mass produced hybrid in history and cost owners $19,995 + D&H. 22-years later, the 2023 hatch is EPA rated at 57 mpg, runs the 60 dash in 7.2 seconds thanks to its 194 HP total output 2.0L I4, includes 91.2/23.8 cu ft of Passenger/Cargo Volume, and costs just 37% more at $27,450 to start. We are talking 22-years later when most everything with wheels has increased by 40% to 50% or more!

    For the $7,455 USDs, you receive one of the hottest looking hatches ever built, the most efficient gasoline fueled vehicle ever to drive American highways and byways, an EPA rated range of 644-miles from the std. 11.3-gal fuel tank and a refuel of 5-minutes causing consternation amongst the EV owners, and a safety quotient surely set for a 5-star NHTSA and TOP SAFETY PICK+ on the IIHS.

    On the negative side, the lower roofline is going to be felt during ingress and egress of the rear seat passengers in particular. The lower seating position and smaller wheel that cuts off a small part of the driver instrument display will not sit well for some either. The smaller cargo volume will also affect some who carry cargo for more than just a short vacation jaunt. Those LE 17s and XLE/Limited’s 19’s are not only less efficient and wear faster than a low RRc 15, they are going to be much more expensive to replace. That is about it from my short few hours behind the wheel of several XLEs.

    On the positive side of the ledger, that 57 mpg LE trim 5th gen continues to check off the efficiency box as the highest rated anything fueled on America roads today. Sure, Toyota left 2 to 4 mpg on the table with the 17s vs 15s and 0.27 Cd vs the 4th gens 0.24. What they have added however, vastly increases the Prius' curb appeal for the average driver. The incredibly slick silhouette, larger wheels with lower profile tires, much more powerful drivetrain, and improved infotainment were designed to do just that. The improved front seats with what felt like more surface area – ie. longer and wider seat bottoms before falling off the edge or pressed against the bolsters helped. The upgraded Safety Sense 3.0 System will make cruise control driving even more relaxing and the solid wired or wireless Android Auto makes taking the long way home that much more enjoyable.

    [​IMG]

    All told, I will own a 5th gen Prius or Prius Prime LE sooner or later. I will have to wear out my 21 Prius Prime with 165,000 miles on its clock first however and that could take a good long while which speaks volumes about the current gen Toyota Prius' reliability, longevity, and resale. That is their “Job One” after all and so far so good. ;)

    Wayne
     
  15. BillLin

    BillLin PV solar, geothermal HVAC, hybrids and electrics

    I wonder how the '23 Prius will do with the heavier and faster side impact test. Small cars did better than midsize, possibly due to length of the passenger compartment. Higher ride height vehicles like SUVs did better as well. Needs to achieve a good rating in the new test to make the + level.
     
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  16. Trollbait

    Trollbait Well-Known Member

    The tread ware test is no where as rigorous as the the emission and fuel economy tests. it's done outside, and there is no third party audits of manufacturer results. Who are free to report lower numbers. This makes comparison between brands iffy. The Tire Rack doesn't even recommend it.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Tire_Quality_Grading#Treadwear
    https://www.tirerack.com/upgrade-garage/what-are-the-uniform-tire-quality-grade-utqg-standards

    That said, it doesn't appear that any OEM Toyo tire has a tread wear component.
     
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  17. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    Is "tread ware" anything like "soft ware"?
     
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  18. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Bill:
    The good thing is IIHS and NHTSA provide OEMs their crash test criteria years in advance before they upgrade their crash tests. Toyota probably knew about the latest crash tests half way through its design. I am sure they will do well.

    Wayne
     
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  19. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Trollbait:

    [​IMG]

    Wayne
     
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  20. BillLin

    BillLin PV solar, geothermal HVAC, hybrids and electrics

    hopefully a close match to the following reference... I don't know if the OEM one would be the same...

    upload_2023-2-21_12-25-57.png
     
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