Month of May 2022 (Nat’l Avg $4.187)

Discussion in 'The Daily Grind' started by Gord, Apr 30, 2022.

  1. BillLin

    BillLin PV solar, geothermal HVAC, hybrids and electrics

    Maybe "they" should return the settlement money to Hyundai/Kia? :D
     
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  2. litesong

    litesong litesong

    Its not funny. The nay-sayers & lead-footers hired lots of fast-talkin’ lawyers & no one from CleanMPG showed up at the trials to say how high their MPG with Korean cars were. So Hyundai & Kia took the economic hits, after producing excellent cars.
     
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  3. MaxxMPG

    MaxxMPG Hasta Lavista AAA-Vee Von't Be Bach

    As I recall, where they ran into difficulty is in providing coastdown data for the cars being tested by the EPA. Manufacturers run their vehicles through a coastdown test which is done in a carefully controlled environment with specific conditions. The definitions of those conditions are clear but not specific enough to avoid the use of some poetic license. For example, the test must be performed with the correct tire size and TPC Spec the factory-assembled cars will use. H/K used new and correct tires but did not notice that someone may have shaved them to minimum tread depth. Less rolling resistance. Test parameters said "new tires with correct TPC" but did not say "...with full tread depth". The test parameters also do not state that you cannot apply smooth tape over body seams to further lessen drag. It doesn't mention it at all. Hmmm....

    GM saw what happened with the coastdown tweaks and decided to play it safe. When the Chevy Volt arrived with new (for the time) Goodyear FuelMax tires, GM had a dedicated TPC Spec only for the Volt. That FuelMax tire has an as-new tread depth of 7/32. Any other FuelMax on the shelf was 10/32. So they could get the longer EV distances and better FE estimates with worn tires - just like the Elantra rolling on shaved OEM radials - by simply specifying that every new Volt should be delivered with half their tire tread missing.

    The benefit to the "settlement" is that H/K now underrates their cars by a ridiculous margin. My brother's family drove from KY to NY last month for funeral services and with seven people to travel, the most cost-efficient travel with to take the two 2022 Elantras - 2.0L Atkinson engine and chain-o-matic with EPA 31/41. At or around PSL on interstates heading northeast, they arrived on Long Island with one car at 54mpg and the other at 56mpg. The difference is likely a combination of different tires (Ulsan vs Montgomery production), different drivers, and one car being the lead on most of the trip and the other following behind. There's no getting away from the fact that they both destroyed the EPA highway number by 33+ percent with three or four people and luggage aboard, climbing over the Appalachians and snaking through NYC traffic.
     
  4. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    What does the Monroney say ? YOUR MILEAGE MAY VARY.
     
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  5. litesong

    litesong litesong

    I drive used, over-sized tires & discovered my MPG goes up! Not because the tread was low, but because the tire diameters were greater. I love to keep rpms down & shaving tires doesn’t do that. People often say cars need to be broken-in to get the best MPG. My new cars always gave excellent MPG from the very beginning, even with the new tires. I’ve never had greater MPG with low tread depth on older tires.
     
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  6. BillLin

    BillLin PV solar, geothermal HVAC, hybrids and electrics

    Or at least, "Your mileage may vary."
     
  7. BillLin

    BillLin PV solar, geothermal HVAC, hybrids and electrics

    I don't understand why the EPA numbers are so misunderstood...

    Any single number representing a vehicle's fuel efficiency is going to be wrong most of the time across different conditions and drivers. The number represents a reference point for use across vehicles to aid in vehicle comparisons. It is not a best case nor worst case number. Most people will be able to do better. Some people will never do better.

    And to further complicate things, many car makers are self-reporting and are allowed to derate or otherwise modify their reported numbers.
     
  8. Gord

    Gord Super Moderator Staff Member

    Back home last night via usual Thursday detour #2 to meet sister at care home and visit mum, 66°F:
    19.5 miles - 179 Wh/mi or 5.6 Mi/kWh

    Tried something on the way home that I used to do all the time in the Honda and the Audi and still do in the Hyundai i10 - a slow roll in Neutral!
    Normally I just let the regenerative braking do it's stuff in the Tesla but there's a short, maybe 0.5 mile, slightly downhill section from the care home to get back to the main road where I thought I'd give it a go. I had to hold the gear selector in position 1 for a few seconds and N was engaged - worked pretty well for a 5 to 20mph roll. I then engaged D and completed the journey as normal:
    2.3 miles - 179 Wh/mi or 5.6 Mi/kWh - much better compared to my previous 10 attempts. I reckon I didn't use much energy at all on that stretch apart from the initial pulse to get moving out of the car park.

    Home charge this morning:
    33.32 miles added in 1 hour

    To free charger this morning, went on a lake walk, 51°F:
    2.8 miles - 140 Wh/mi or 7.1 Mi/kWh
    32.84 miles added in 39"

    Charger to work, 53°F:
    19.2 miles - 192 Wh/mi or 5.2 Mi/kWh
     
  9. BillLin

    BillLin PV solar, geothermal HVAC, hybrids and electrics

    Excellent!
     
  10. RedylC94

    RedylC94 Well-Known Member

    Right. I never cease to be amazed how clever humans can be, or how dumb.
    The EPA highway number is effectively a realistic best-case number, divided by a fixed fudge factor (was 0.78) intended to bring it closer to what normal owners might obtain.
     
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  11. litesong

    litesong litesong

    Bill posted:
    I don't understand why the EPA numbers are so misunderstood...
    ///////
    RedylC94 posted:
    ... I never cease to be amazed how clever humans can be, or how dumb.
    ////////
    All those complaining about EPA, are lead-foot egotists, who don’t like it when they are continually reminded that many people get better MPG than they. & yeah, maybe they have a bad route to work & its hard to get over 30MPG. But, lead-footers don’t try to raise their MPG much…….because then, they would have to give up their hard won accolades to be the first off the line at the stoplight.
     
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  12. litesong

    litesong litesong

    Leadfooters will never beat featherfooters past the gas pump……unless the featherfooter is dragging an anchor……make that 2 anchors.
     
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  13. RedylC94

    RedylC94 Well-Known Member

    Oops, I meant multiplied by the factor (to oversimplify a bit).

    Anyone who can't beat the EPA highway figure divided by 0.78 under reasonably favorable conditions isn't trying very hard.










    0.
     
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  14. Gord

    Gord Super Moderator Staff Member

    I wasn’t sure what the official EPA figure was for my Tesla Model 3 Long Range but according to Electrek, it’s 4 miles per kilowatt
    https://electrek.co/2020/10/28/tesla-model-3-2021-epa-rating-efficiency-supremacy/
    This number seems to be the best of the 2021 bunch…..
    With efficient driving and using techniques learned from cleanmpg and trial and error over the years, I’m consistently averaging over 5 miles/kWh so pretty happy with that :D
     
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  15. litesong

    litesong litesong

    Manual Hyundai Elantra took me to the river. Not a duck or goose to see with the 12X50mm binoculars. The clouds were dark enough, that I was happy to have the big lenses to see the river area. While scanning the river bank for anything to see, a deer was seen. Alright! If there had been birds, I may have been distracted & never saw the deer. Walking along the river, I scoped the far bend in the river half a mile away. Wow! Three more deer were seen. All deer had no horns & may have been female. When the deer moved from the riverbank & into the woods, & with a lack of birds, I went home. Later, I went to the Wildlife area with the Accent. Like the river area, it too had a major lack of birds on the north end. Eventually, I saw a white-crowned sparrow & a song sparrow. Over on the lake, I saw some duck, which may have been Blue-winged Teal. Walking along the lake, I heard a loud crack. Snapping my eyes up to the opposite lake shore, I saw a huge maple tree branch falling to the ground! With a commanding crash, I heard the limb power flatly onto the ground. Tomorrow, I’ll try to track down that branch, see how big it is & see what damage was done. Possibly the wind yesterday, may have weakened the branch. Another possibility, is the great amount of rain we have had over the last 3 months, may have caused the tree to have an excess amount of water weight in the trunk & branches. Finally, a combination of excess water AND wind may have brought the branch down.
    //////
    PS…..A day later:
    I found the large branch that broke off. The main rotting tree was down a slope near the lake edge. The crack I heard was the full branch breaking off the trunk. The crash I heard was the branch landing flat against the ground slope leading up from the lake.The branch was long enough, someone could have been injured or died, standing on the field access road, just up from the lake.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2022
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  16. litesong

    litesong litesong

    From 5-15-22:
    Five days later & more stations crunch over $5 per gallon, & even to $5.40+. Even saw 1 Costco at $4.87 per gallon. That “Unnecessary” purchase with all my gas containers I made in Eastern Washington on Tuesday at $4.37 per gallon is looking very good. Our 3 cars are near full…..right now.
     
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  17. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    Today , 57 deg F in Naperville and Elk Grove.
    Wind W1 , light rain all the way.
    333 miles , fcd = 63.0 x .943 = 59.4 MPG
     
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  18. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    Today , 45 deg F in Lombard , 44 in Elk Grove. Wind N2.
    16.3 miles , fcd = 73.0 x .943 = 68.8 MPG.
    One pip remaining.
     
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  19. Gord

    Gord Super Moderator Staff Member

    Back home Friday, 57°F:
    19.8 miles - 181 Wh/mi or 5.5 Mi/kWh

    To pub for lunch
    1.3 miles - 73 Wh/mi or 13.7 Mi/kWh
    1.3 miles - 295 Wh/mi or 3.4 Mi/kWh

    To doctor's to book a heart check (free checkup) then on to mother-in-law's to plant some runner beans and a few courgettes (zucchini):
    1.2 miles - 166 Wh/mi or 6.0 Mi/kWh
    2.6 miles - 146 Wh/mi or 6.8 Mi/kWh
    Slow charge while we were there:
    28.55 miles added in 1'43"
    Back home:
    3.3 miles - 236 Wh/mi or 4.2 Mi/kWh

    Going to a wedding Saturday morning so charged it at home up to 90% (top up in the morning before we go):
    137.07 miles added in 4'11"

    Saturday morning top-up. Didn't know if I'd get any further charging over the weekend and total driving was going to be around 230 miles:
    34.17 miles added in 1'24" - range at 336 miles (100%)

    Drove to a supermarket near the church with a free charger (managed to get in as another Tesla driver was just leaving) to get something to eat and drink, 60°F:
    100.77 miles - 184 Wh/mi or 5.4 Mi/kWh
    33.8 miles added in 1'12"

    Charger to church, 60°F:
    2.9 miles - 303 Wh/mi or 3.3 Mi/kWh

    Church to wedding reception, 62°F:
    7.8 miles - 148 Wh/mi or 6.8 Mi/kWh

    Wedding reception to hotel, 55°F:
    4.2 miles - 162 Wh/mi or 6.2 Mi/kWh

    Sunday morning, back to supermarket for breakfast and a bit of shopping (and another free charge :cool:),
    12.8 miles - 189 Wh/mi or 5.3 Mi/kWh
    25.22 miles added in 51"

    Super economical drive home :D, 61°F:
    101.1 miles - 152 Wh/mi or 6.6 Mi/kWh (only used 75.7 rated miles) :)

    To work this morning, 55°F:
    19.6 miles - 183 Wh/mi or 5.5 Mi/kWh

    Range at 188.9 miles or 56.4%
     
  20. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    Filled up on the way home yesterday for $4.989
    639.2 miles , fcd = 68.9 x .943 = 65.0 MPG.
    Not so bad.
    But then I got home , put the car in the garage............and forgot
    to turn the car off. It sat in Ready mode for about two and a quarter hours.
    Luckily , I went out in the garage for something and smelled exhaust fumes.
    what would have been a 70+ (fcd) trip this morning ended up at 59.1.
    I hate when that happens.
     
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