2023 Toyota bZ4X Preview

Discussion in 'In the News' started by xcel, Nov 30, 2021.

  1. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

    The estimated EV range matched pretty much what I actually got (with super light foot). It did degrade that badly. Did several measurements to double-check and usually was within 1-2 mile of the estimate. I was able to get 30 mile at beginning, after 5 years only about 24-25. And that's in CA weather so not too much cold temps.

    Unfortunately I think bad design since when I checked that Sonata shutoff behavior online, I noticed other people experiencing the same issue. Perhaps fixed since then, this was their first PHEV model I believe.

    I remember Wayne mentioning that the Hyundai Sonata is using diff tech where they are able to use more of the battery capacity than other manufacturs (less reserved capacity). But can't remember details, I think they can do a deep charge.

    I did have better experience with Honda Accord PHEV. Also I expect Toyota to be much better experience.
     
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  2. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    I am posting this ahead of where I wanted but here is my 2023 Toyota bZ4X conclusion rundown.

    2023 Toyota bZ4X Limited

    [​IMG]

    There are a lot more problems with the bZ4X than just the exterior design. Along with the exaggerated exterior cladding, flat plastic face, and rear taillamp shape missteps, the following stood out to me.
    1. Maximum 100 KW DCFC from the CATL pack on the AWD.
    2. Just 6.6 KW L2 charging on both the FWD and AWD.
    3. The lower half of the instrument cluster is blocked with the wheel and ergo design.
    4. It offers the shortest EPA range within its category by a significant margin including the Model Y, Mustang MachE, EV6, Ioniq 5, ID.4, and Polestar 2 in that order.
    5. Pricing is reasonable but the ID.4 is less expensive and offers more.
    6. Passenger and cargo volumes are in the lower quartile of its segment although driver and passenger room feel better than its diminutive specs.
    On the positive side of the ledger, the std pano roof with power shade was a nice addition, its efficiency is all there - see below, TSS 3.0 now matches the Hyundai and VW group products active safety, and with wireless AA and ACP, the infotainment is finally caught up with everyone else.

    [​IMG]

    As a multiple Toyota PHEV owner and staunch purchase advocate of much of their HEV and PHEV lineup, the bZ4X reviews I am seeing do not match my own impressions. It is almost as if Toyota was targeting a competitive set from 2018 well knowing what was possibly in the works from everyone else through 2021 and 2022.

    My final thoughts? Try to find and purchase a 2022 RAV4 Prime instead of the 2023 bZ4X for the following reasons:
    • You will own a better looking vehicle
    • You will own a larger vehicle
    • You will own a quicker vehicle
    • You will own a longer range vehicle
    • You will own a more capable "off-road" vehicle
    • You will own a lower cost vehicle - Lower upfront MSRP and you receive the exact same $7,500 Fed TC and any State financial/HOV lane access incentives
    • You will own a no compromise vehicle with 42-miles of all-electric range for your daily commutes and no long range travel negatives dealing with slow charging or possible charging availability and reliability while far away from home
    • You will own a vehicle with a longer lifespan
    In other words, you will be better off with the tried-and-true RAV4 Prime PHEV vs the all-new, all-electric bZ4X BEV.

    2021 Toyota RAV4 Prime Limited

    [​IMG]
    A short stop near the Golden Gate was a bonus.​

    Wayne
     
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  3. Janice Cooper

    Janice Cooper Member

    “In other words, you will be better off with the tried-and-true RAV4 Prime PHEV vs the all-new, all-electric bZ4X BEV.“

    I’m so disappointed. I really wanted to like the 2023 bZ4X. I don’t want a really large vehicle, but I like a higher driving position. Also more road clearance would be helpful with some of the crappy roads and parking areas around here. The good news is that I don’t need a new car right now.

    Janice
     
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  4. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    I feel the same way. My car is NOT fun to drive , but it runs ( almost ) as good as new.

    And I totally agree with Wayne about the RAV4 Prime, For those who "must" sit up so high m it's a really good vehicle.
    I'd prefer a Golf-sized BEV with maybe 150 miles of range. I would even appreciate whatever kind of EV ( not sold here )
    that MINI is offering/teasing.

    If I REALLY needed a car now , my Toyota dealer has a CPO 2022 Prius Prime XLE with less than 2K miles.
    I saw it on their lot when I had my car in for service yesterday. They don't show prices on those cars , of course.
    I can easily find the non-negotiable price from the dealer website , but I don't want to get angry this early in the day. :)
    Maybe supply will catch up with demand/greed in a couple of years. I'm more likely to buy a small motorcycle this year.
     
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  5. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    Okay. I steeled myself to the sticker shock and looked at their price. A bargain at $41,488. They actually have two other CPO Primes , on for $39K and one at
    ( gasp ) $45K. Instead of quoting you a price , I can imagine the salesperson asking you ( with a straight face ) "How much you got?"

    Maybe I should have kept the excellent 2014 Civic 5MT I bought in June 2020 and sold in July 2021.
     
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  6. BillLin

    BillLin PV solar, geothermal HVAC, hybrids and electrics

    2022 low mileage CPO? I wonder if they took the federal tax incentive and are still selling above new list price? Crooks! I hope no one falls for these scams.

    edit: I hope Toyota will ramp up production of these Prime vehicles. They're likely to sell every single one.
     
  7. Janice Cooper

    Janice Cooper Member

    I drove a GMC Sonoma (17/23 mpg YIKES) followed by a Pontiac Vibe, so I’m used to sitting a little higher off the road than my current Corolla. I’ve injured my knees which makes it harder to get in and out of a small car. A CUV or small SUV would make my life easier. But even with the current insane trade in value of my car, I’m having a hard time justifying spending an even more insane amount on something new.

    I first read about the bZ4X/Solterra after a car accident where I thought my car might be totaled. The Corolla is whole again and after my research, I know my next vehicle will be either a hybrid, plug-in hybrid, or full electric. Not sure when that will happen.
     
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  8. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    Let us know what you buy , Janice. I'm always interested in cars I don't have to pay for ,lol.
     
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  9. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    Yikes. I didn't even think of that.
    I imagine someone took the incentive , it's been titled ( pre-owned).
    Either way , supply/demand for these cars needs to change drastically before I write a check.
     
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  10. Trollbait

    Trollbait Well-Known Member

    With emission warranties to worry about, PHEVs tend to be more cautious in protecting the battery than a BEV.
    Doesn't make them immune to design and manufacturing defects though. The range/capacity loss here sounds like an early symptom of that.
     
  11. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    While not the 2023 Toyota bZ4X, the 2023 Subaru Solterra uses the exact same wheel layout. The wheel is extended upwards and outwards and it still did not tilt upwards far enough for my comfort. Notice how the wheel covers the driver display? I found this infuriating.

    [​IMG]

    Wayne
     
  12. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

    The Lexus RZ version offers a yoke to have better visibility. But they are just solving a problem that never existed before, and taking a step back in maneuverability (and likely just copying Tesla as only reason). I also don't understand the trend of super large non-integrated screens which are more distracting (at night especially). Not too bad here at least.

    The EV range is even worse as expected.
     
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  13. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    I remember when I had my Civic Si. The wheel would give perfect visibility of all the instruments , even in the low position I preferred.
    Then I installed an aftermarket steering wheel that was maybe 2" smaller in diameter. Obstruction.
    I think maybe some of these cars were designed for Hiroshi , not Wayne. Good thing that Hiroshi and I are about the same size.
     
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  14. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Luke:

    This is a short engineering detail from a friend of mine at Toyota/Lexus.
    2023 Lexus RZ

    [​IMG]
    2023 Lexus RZ Steering

    [​IMG]

    Fortunately the RZ yoke and steer-by-wire system will not be available at launch, but "MAY" be offered later on. This is not PR spin. The yoke will more than likely not reach my drive outside of a review. ;)

    Wayne
     
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  15. BillLin

    BillLin PV solar, geothermal HVAC, hybrids and electrics

    That's the only way a yoke makes sense. Did Tesla do theirs differently?
     
  16. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Bill:

    I do not think so.

    Here are some more details on Lexus' Steering Drive By Wire in the RZ so equipped.


    Wayne
     
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  17. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    How does steer-by-wire work when it FAILS ?
     
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  18. MaxxMPG

    MaxxMPG Hasta Lavista AAA-Vee Von't Be Bach

    Easy. You just have to reboot the steering computer. Simply press and hold the RESET button in the back of the glove box for three seconds and you will see the "restarting your steering control" message in the "driver information center". The control module should be fully rebooted within thirty seconds. Note: Any vehicle damage caused by driving into a cluster of trees or bridge pier during the Steering Controller Module reboot sequence is not covered by the manufacturer's warranty.
     
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  19. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    I can always count on you for a smart(ass) answer. Seriously. You should be an auto journalist.
     
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  20. MaxxMPG

    MaxxMPG Hasta Lavista AAA-Vee Von't Be Bach

    To be a journalist, I would need a catchy on-air name like Walter Crankpin. And I'd need to dial up the opinion silliness when writing, including describing the ride of a vehicle as "flinty", or moaning about steering being "dead on center". The last time I drove a car - a few hours ago - I appreciated the fact that the steering is indeed dead when on center. I don't want the front wheels changing direction unless I move the steering wheel. And while on the auto mag topic, I don't need some engineer to "dial in the firmness of my bushings". Leave it alone. The car gets great gas mileage, the radio works, and it doesn't need any service other than oil changes twice a year. One cherished feature the car has - a strong steel bar that transfers torque from the steering wheel to a gear which meshes with a long toothed bar that can be pushed left or right to steer the front wheels. I think it's called Iraq Opinion steering and it is a delight for its simplicity, compact packaging, and the fact that the damn thing just works so I don't keep crashing.
     
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