2023 Toyota bZ4X Preview

Discussion in 'In the News' started by xcel, Nov 30, 2021.

  1. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    2023 Toyota bZ4X Limited

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  2. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    2023 Toyota bZ4X Limited

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  3. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    One other item that is non-Toyota related but was related to the short lead ... When signing up for the vehicles to drive, the most efficient FWD models in both the XLE and Limited trims were left blank. I had access to the FWD models on my own all day showing how even the journalist community are tied into the AWD panache despite the efficiency losses.

    2023 Toyota bZ4X AWD Limited

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    Wayne
     
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  4. BillLin

    BillLin PV solar, geothermal HVAC, hybrids and electrics

    Along the same lines, the larger journalist body will probably bash any EV that doesn't have over 300 HP (223.71 kW) to help the 0-60 mph time.
     
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  5. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    "More is better" is their motto.

    I remember being in the Audi A6 TDI with a certain unnamed journalist
    who had a rare moment without "Dad" in the car and got into some hooliganism.
     
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  6. BillLin

    BillLin PV solar, geothermal HVAC, hybrids and electrics

    From the instrument cluster pictures, it appears that Subaru's X-MODE® is available. Makes sense...
     
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  7. Trollbait

    Trollbait Well-Known Member

    The main difference is in the fuel efficiency/emission tests. The WLTP test now used in Europe is much better than the old NEDC in terms of reflecting what a person could see on the road, but is still optimistic compared to EPA in the US.

    Divide WLTP by 1.12 will give an estimate for EPA values.
     
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  8. Janice Cooper

    Janice Cooper Member

    i have so much to learn …
     
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  9. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    Now that the embargo has been released, it is time to get into the details.

    At a starting MSRP of $42,000/$46,700 for the FWD 2023 Toyota bZ4X in XLE and Limited trims, it is the second lowest cost compact CUV BEV currently available.

    The 2022 VW ID.4 at $41,230/$45,730 in Pro and Pro S trims is $770 and $970 less expensive. Adding, the VW D&H charge of $1,195 takes off another $20 vs the bZ4X.

    The 2022 Ford Mach-E is no longer available to order as all 2022 Production has been accounted for.

    For the competitive pricing comparison below, I am using the most popular trims with the largest battery capacities.

    From lowest to highest, pricing looks like this.
    1. VW ID.4
    2. Toyota bZ4X
    3. Hyundai Ioniq 5
    4. Polestar 2
    5. Kia EV6
    6. Ford Mach-E
    7. Tesla Model Y
    2023 Toyota bZ4X

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    FWD XLE/Limited - $42,000/$46,700
    AWD XLE/Limited - $44,080/$48,780
    D&H = $1,215

    2022 Ford Mustang Mach-E

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    RWD California Route 1 - $52,450
    RWD/AWD Premium - $54,775/$57,475
    AWD GT - $61,995
    D&H = $1,100

    2022 Hyundai Ioniq 5

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    RWD SE/SEL/Limited $44,000/$46,250/$51,100
    AWD SE/SEL/Limited - $47,500/$49,750/$55,000
    D&H = $1,245

    2022 Kia EV6

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    RWD Wind/GT-Line - $47,000/$51,200
    AWD Wind/GT-Line - $50,900/$55,900
    D&H = $1,215

    2022 Polestar 2

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    FWD - $45,900
    RWD - $49,900
    D&H = $1,300

    2022 Volkswagen ID.4

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    RWD Pro/Pro S - $41,230/$45,730
    AWD Pro/Pro S - $44,910/$49,410
    D&H = $1,195

    2022 Tela Model Y

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    AWD Model Y/Model Y Performance - $64,990/$67,990
    D&H = $1,200
     
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  10. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    2023 Toyota bZ4X

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    And where the 2023 Toyota bZ4X shortcomings appear vs its competitors. In terms of EPA rated range, its FWD Panasonic 71.4 kWh Li-Ion pack and AWD CATL 72.8 kWh Li-Ion pack are smaller than the rest resulting in significantly shorter EPA rated range vs its competitors.

    Compact BEV Range Comparisons

    From highest EPA rated range to lowest.
    1. Tesla Model Y
    2. Ford Mustang Mach-E
    3. Kia EV6
    4. Hyundai Ioniq 5
    5. VW ID.4
    6. Polestar 2
    7. Toyota bZ4X
    2022 Tesla Model Y - 330/303-miles for the AWD Model Y/Model Y Performance <-- Both ratings are extremely optimistic.

    2022 Ford Mustang Mach-E

    314-miles for the RWD California Route 1
    303/277-miles for the RWD/AWD Premium
    270-miles for the AWD GT

    2022 Kia EV6 - 310/274-miles for the RWD/AWD Wind/GT-Line

    2022 Hyundai Ioniq 5 - 303/256-miles for the RWD/AWD SE/SEL/Limited

    2022 VW ID.4 - 280/252-miles for the RWD/AWD

    2022 Polestar 2 - 270/249-miles for the FWD/AWD

    2023 Toyota bZ4X - 252/228-miles for the FWD/AWD XLE and Limited

    Wayne
     
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  11. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    2022 Hyundai Ioniq 5

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    The fastest charging, affordable compact BEV available.​

    Charging

    When considering L2 and DCFC charging capability, the Toyota bZ4X falls vastly short of its competitors. The media deck which I drew from include 0 charging pics and it made sense once the details were relayed to us.

    Both the FWD and AWD bZ4Xs have onboard L2 charging at just 6.6 KW. To fill the 71.4 and 72.1 KWh packs from flat to of full at home takes an inordinate 9-hours. Moving to the DCFCing capability, the FWD can charge at a reasonable and middle of the road 150 KW but the AWD can charge at just 100 KW. 100 KW today not competitive and with the AWD probably being the highest volume bZ4Xs, any road trip will incur a very long wait. Far too long a wait imho.

    Compact BEV Charging Comparisons

    From highest charging rates to lowest.
    1. Hyundai Ioniq 5/Kia EV6
    2. Tesla Model Y
    3. Ford Mustang Mach-E
    4. VW ID.4
    5. Polestar 2
    6. Toyota bZ4X
    2022 Hyundai Ioniq/Kia EV6 – 7-hours on an 11.5 KW home L2/250 KW on DCFC

    2022 Tesla Model Y – 7-hours on an 11.5 KW home L2/250 KW on DCFC

    2022 Ford Mustang Mach-E – 10.5-hours on an 11.5 KW home L2/150 KW on DCFC

    2022 VW ID.4 – 7.5-hours on an 11.5 KW home L2/135 KW on DCFC

    2022 Polestar 2 – 8-hours on home L2/155 KW on DCFC <-- Very poor DCFC performance

    2023 Toyota bZ4X – 10-hours on a 6.6 KW home L2 AND 100/150 KW for AWD/FWD on DCFC

    Wayne
     
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  12. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

    My 2016 Sonata lost 20% of its PHEV range in 5 years / 60k miles. Not sure if typical but I assume it's not far off from the average. Therefore I'd only consider an EV with at least 300 mile range. It seems we will see a decent amount of upcoming EV models that promise bit more than that. So I'd would wait bit longer.

    Unfortunately though my Sonata developed issues with the battery (engine just shuts of without warning) and it needed replacement under warranty and Hyundai couldn't supply that within 4 months so they did a buy back. I looked at Toyota & Lexus NX phev for their great efficiency but the markups were insane (or no markup but long wait list). I also noticed that the phev kwh/mi efficiency for most other brands is really poor compared to EVs. Ultimately since I wanted to avoid markups and couldn't find any decent efficient normally priced hybrid/PHEV, just bought for now a regular non-hybrid model.
    Sure miss a hybrid and will keep an eye out for upcoming models and I think in a few years EV's should improve on the charging limitations and range. But for me just a bit too early as I want to avoid having to own 2 cars.
     
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  13. bestmapman

    bestmapman Fighting untruth and misinformation

    Wayne,
    Did you get to drive it?
     
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  14. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Jud:

    Yes, I did. A number of shortcomings including those already posted above and more I will post about in another post. At least the bZ4X was efficient. ;)

    2023 Toyota bZ4X XLE

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    [​IMG]

    Wayne
     
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  15. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    No Pepsi bottles ?
     
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  16. BillLin

    BillLin PV solar, geothermal HVAC, hybrids and electrics

    I don't think Wayne was in the bZ4X for that long... :D
     
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  17. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

    Those are amazing numbers (19 kWh/100 mi). But that's probably Wayne's touch and not anywhere near EPA so not sure how that compares to something like the Mach-E:).

    Few upcoming German EV's seem to get great range over 300 mile. E.g. EQE, i4 and next year the A6. But sure very expensive. Would be great to see EV range tests for those non-SUV's for comparison.

    PS Great to see Wayne on TV last week giving mpg tips:). And the reporter drove the E-Tron GT of course:).
     
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  18. Trollbait

    Trollbait Well-Known Member

    That amount of loss isn't typical outside of an old Leaf. Most Tesla's have seen less than 10% in that time frame. Toyota's battery warranty is 10% or less over 10 years.
     
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  19. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

    Interesting, maybe there was an issue from the start. At beginning it indicated 27 mi range and it lowered the (realistic) estimate 1-2 mile every year (down to 23 mi after 5 years). I didn't see that with the Accord PHEV but I only had it for 2 years and the capacity was smaller. Unless specific to Hyundai utilizing more % of the battery? Honda reserved bit more. Too bad Honda offers no PHEV anymore and they are behind now in EV's.

    Hyundai dealership experiences were bad for me and claim was that car retained no sensor diag data to figure out the battery issue. Neither was there a failsafe option with a limp mode and that made the car dangerous as it shut off on the highway few times without warning. The buyback amount was excellent but switching back to Honda/Toyota hoping for better reliability and service quality.
     
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  20. BillLin

    BillLin PV solar, geothermal HVAC, hybrids and electrics

    PHEV battery degradation: I have not seen much on the topic. Luke, you're the first I've seen mentioning the degradation. (greencarcongress says...) The 2016 Sonata PHEV has a 9.8 kWh Li-ion polymer battery pack. Most others are straight Li-ion. Our 2017 Prius Prime supposedly has an 8.8 kWh battery rated at 25 miles EV. It usually reports 26 miles or so EV range in the winter and it has climbed to 28 now with warmer weather. It goes even higher, to maybe 30-32 in the summer. With measured charging, I'd say the usable battery is well under 7 kWh (maybe 5.5-6.5 kWh). [The possibility exists that Hyundai is just being more honest in its software reporting of EV range... who knows.]

    We never use the full pack so I wouldn't expect much degradation other than calendar life degradation. Maybe Wayne can say what he's seeing for EV range after his many miles in a short span of ownership from new, but then he probably doesn't stress the battery either.

    I'd guess PHEV range degradation is a non-issue for most as the car manufacturers would have allowed for decreased battery capacity, and would have hidden it within the usable battery percentage.

    That lack of a failsafe seems strange... Something broke perhaps so outside of design parameters.
     
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