55 mpg Rated 2019 Honda Insight Reveal at the NYIAS

Discussion in 'In the News' started by xcel, Mar 27, 2018.

  1. Trollbait

    Trollbait Well-Known Member

    From 1990 to 2017, the number of registered cars in the US increased by nearly 79.5 million.
    The number of miles driven by passenger cars in the US in 1990 2,165,788 million. In 2017, it was 2,987,591 million.
    An increase of 29% and 38%. So new cars need less maintenance, there are more cars in total, being driven more miles, now. Then the average age of a car in the US is coming up to 12 years, which means still plenty of cars out there with shorter maintenance intervals.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/183505/number-of-vehicles-in-the-united-states-since-1990/
    https://www.bts.gov/content/us-vehicle-miles
     
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  2. RedylC94

    RedylC94 Well-Known Member

    ?? My early-80s car specified oil changes at 7500-miles intervals, which was typical. The original tires went well over 100,000 miles.
     
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  3. Trollbait

    Trollbait Well-Known Member

    I've been doing oil changes and repairs myself for years. But in Pennsylvania, the car has to go to a shop once a year for inspection.
     
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  4. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    I will wrap up the Insight review with some final thoughts. It was turned in on Monday morning of course but there are a few more discussion points to disseminate.

    Carcus, I went out at 03:00 AM and the roads were still wet with light rain. By 04:00 AM, the roads were somewhat dry and the rain had stopped but traffic started to show.

    Without the ability to complete the full speed vs FE data collection with the traffic beginning to build, I focused on the 70-mph speed vs FE result since that is what you were most interested in. The 45-mpg highway rated Honda Insight Touring trim indicated an average of 43.6 mpg in both directions at 70 mph with some traffic side and a gain of almost 1-bar of SoC during the NB 7-mile segment. This equates to ~ 44.4 mpg with the 1.45 percent positive aFCD offset as calculated from the full tank top off to full tank top off fill over 597.1-mile measured distance plus .2 mpg for the 1-way SoC build. To close this loop, the Insight provided slightly less than its EPA at 70 mph with some traffic side. As I posted previously, out on the highway, the Insight Hybrid gets its teeth kicked in. 44 mpg at 70 mph is not bad but we have driven a few far less expensive non-hybrids that best that result.

    In the Compact hybrid segment, there are still just three. The Prius owns both the Insight and the Ioniq in terms of overall efficiency. It just does so many things right in all aspects of city, city/suburban and highway that the competitors cannot match. Ioniq on the highway – especially at higher speeds and the Insight last on the super slab and second in the city. The Ioniq does not handle a city environment like the two motor Insight and Prius despite the sky-high EPA results.

    Looks wise, the Insight has it all over the Prius and the Ioniq. Std yet modern sleek sedan appearance, and a normal interior without any goofy bits like the Prius’ anime design or the Insight’s low rent dash.

    Seating, the edge goes to the Ioniq front and rear. More room and better ergonomics. Insight is close whereas the Prius is an absolute disaster for taller drivers.

    Safety? Insight all the way. 5-Star NHTSA and an IIHS Top Safety Pick+ take the cake. When it comes to the advanced HW, the Prius’ and Insight’s RCC are both smoother and the Ioniq’s LKA is slightly less binary or digital feeling than the Insight. The Prius’ LKA is not up to the same level as either of the other two.

    When it comes to infotainment, I emphasize its usability since I use it during all hours of driving the review vehicles. Here is where the Ioniq just flat out buries the Insight and Prius. Android Auto and Apple CarPlay work with the Voice to talk button on the wheel, there are never any real glitches, I can manipulate everything including incoming and outgoing texts with the push of a button with voice direction, and there are honest to goodness radio tune and volume knobs!

    The Insight Touring would normally be a solid second place contender on the infotainment front since it does arrive with an embedded Garmin NAVI backend and Android Auto but AA does not work worth a damn! I cannot even force a map change with the Phone taking voice direction vs the Insight’s push to talk wheel button. It was frustrating and the only workaround I found was to start a Point to Point Navigation in the Garmin backend than Google Map over it and it would take. The Prius? Well, without Android Auto, that thing is a POS. ;)

    The Prius Prime takes the segment on price and low fuel consumption yielding an outrageously low TCO but only those two attributes. The Prius Limited would fall behind both the Ioniq and Insight in everything except for outright efficiency. Between the Insights better looks inside and out and superior city FE vs the Ioniq’s vastly superior infotainment, seating ergonomics, and highway efficiency, it is a “Pickem”.

    That is not the end of the discussion however…

    Now that I am in the 2020 Accord Hybrid Touring trim for a week, I would point a potential compact Insight Hybrid buyer (97.6/15.1 cu. ft. passenger/cargo volume) into the direction of the larger mid-size (102.7/16.7 cu. ft. passenger/cargo volume) 2020 Accord Hybrid instead. Here is why.

    2020 Honda Insight Hybrid vs 2020 Honda Accord Hybrid
    • The Accord Hybrid's rear seat leg, knee, shoulder, hip, and head room are vastly superior
    • The Accord Hybrid's hood does not vibrate like the Insights at speed
    • The Accord Hybrid Infotainment systems Android Auto works better albeit not as good as Hyundai/Kia/FCAs implementation
    • The Accord Hybrid has far less rubber band CVT drone effect during periods of higher requested output
    • The Accord Hybrid's Highway efficiency is superior
    • The Accord Hybrid's range is superior
    And here is where it gets really interesting. While the Accord Hybrid Touring trim retails for $6,800 more than the Insight Hybrid Touring trim, the purchase price differential is $6,317 according to TrueCar estimates. See below. There would be more potential expenditures on financing for the higher price Accord Hybrid but in my experience, the mid-size sedan would have lower insurance premiums than the compact sedan easily removing the finance premium if one had to finance.

    2020 Honda Insight Hybrid Touring - Monroney

    [​IMG]

    2020 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring - Monroney

    [​IMG]

    2020 Honda Insight Touring vs 2020 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring EPA comparison

    [​IMG]

    2020 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring Trim - $36,070 incl. D&H -- $33,885 incl D&H via TrueCar.
    2020 Honda Insight Hybrid Touring Trim - $29,270 incl. D&H -- $27,568 incl D&H via TrueCar.

    More interesting however is when we consider the residuals.

    2019 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring Trim - KBB TIV - 60k miles in Very Good Condition - $20,369
    2019 Honda Insight Hybrid Touring Trim - KBB TIV - 60k miles in Very Good Condition - $15,873

    The Accord Hybrid experienced a full depreciation cost of $13,516 ($33,885 – $20,369) over the course of 60k miles whereas the Insight Hybrid Touring experienced a full depreciation cost of $11,695 ($27,568 – $15,873) over the course of the same 60k miles in this snapshot comparison.

    With a residual price differential of just $1,821 after 60k miles, the Accord Hybrid Touring is superior in to many metrics not to choose it over the smaller Insight Hybrid Touring.

    The 2020 Honda Accord Hybrid proved to be noticeably more efficient when driving all those darn miles to complete a top off to top off full tank consumption on both.

    2020 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring

    [​IMG]
    Final Calibration Fill: 58.8 mpg over 700.0 miles indicated -- 708.2 miles on 12.078 gallons = 58.6 mpg actual.​

    Wayne
     
  5. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    And just like that, the Insight will disappear. Given it was a Civic knockoff anyway, the Civic nameplate will take its place with a future Civic Hybrid TBA.
    • Honda will end production of Insight in Indiana as the company increases production of hybrid core models
    As the next step in Honda’s electrification strategy in North America, the company will focus on increasing hybrid volume of core models - CR-V, Accord and, in the future, Civic. To make room for these moves, Honda will conclude Insight production in June. Honda will introduce all-new models of the CR-V Hybrid this year, followed by the Accord Hybrid, which will eventually make up 50 percent of the sales mix of each model. Hybrids will represent the top and best performing models in the lineup.

    2022 Honda Insight

    [​IMG]

    With the conclusion of Insight production, the Indiana Auto Plant will focus on building CR-V, CR-V Hybrid and Civic Hatchback, several of Honda’s most popular models.

    The 3rd-generation Honda Insight is one of America's top-selling compact hybrids, with more than 70,000 sold since it was introduced in 2018. The 2022 was released in May of last year with the 55/49/52 mpg rated EX trim at $26,205 including $995 D&H and the 51/45/48 mpg rated Touring trim for $30,235, also including the $995 D&H charge.

    Wayne
     
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  6. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    If the Civic hybrid is less efficient than the Insight , that's a no-go for me.

    However , I'm glad that Honda wants to make hybrids that are NOT crossover or SUV.
     
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  7. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

    While Honda commits to having hybrid models only outside the US (CR-V/HR-V/Jazz/Civic...), for the US that effort is scaled back. Not even sure we get the Civic Hybrid as it goes to Europe first it seems (then again FE may not exceed Accord likely again).
    Acura won't have any hybrids either until their first EV in 1-2 years (and like Toyota it seems with non-competitive range). Honda claims Acura customers want to skip hybrids and go straight to EV's but that's 1-2 years away and range seems not competitive yet. Likely rather a development cost cutting measure and perhaps they have miscalculated the rising fuel cost.

    A new Prius is still rumored, if that would materialize it's should give better fuel efficiency & utility. But difficult to predict these days with the SUV popularity.
     
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  8. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

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  9. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    I wonder how efficient the Jazz hybrid is.
     
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  10. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

    4.5-4.8 l/100km on WLTP (compared to 4.7 for the new Civic).
     
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  11. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    None of those numbers impresses me. I guess with the energy glut and super-low prices we now see in North America
    and Europe , they prioritize performance , not fuel economy.
     
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  12. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

    Some comparison numbers as I'm not familiar with WLTP to EPA:

    Prius: 4.2 l/100 km
    Corolla Sedan: 4.5 l /100 km
    Jazz: 4.5 l / 100 km
    new Civic: 4.7 l / 100km
    Camry/RAV4: 5.3l / 100km
    new HR-V: 5.4 l / 100km

    Compared to some Toyota models still lagging but not as bad. Given that the Camry is not as efficient as the Civic (while it would be likely on EPA), it may be some weird thing with WLTP not representing EPA or real world FE.
     
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  13. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    Not bad = not as good as Toyota. Or outgoing Insight.
    That's a bit disappointing. But thanks , Luke.
     
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