Uber - LYFT Rideshare

Discussion in 'General' started by xcel, Feb 4, 2018.

  1. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    The last weekly and cumulative results with a short week as I am driving out to California.

    Uber - 924 rides to date

    1/29 - 2/05: $108.61 <-- Short first week in Milwaukee
    2/05 - 2/11: $0.00 <-- San Diego to Milwaukee to Chicago Uber region swap
    2/12 - 2/19: $692.10
    2/19 - 2/26: $1,493.67
    2/26 - 3/05: $1,613.91
    3/05 - 3/11: $1,667.14
    3/12 - 3/18: $1,085.48 <-- 4.4+ days lost due to Elantra door dent repair
    3/19 - 3/25: $1,703.27
    3/25 - 4/01: $1.010.84 <-- Short final week

    Lyft - 537 rides to date

    1/29 - 2/05: $658.18 <-- Short first week in Milwaukee
    2/05 - 2/11: $1,755.15
    2/12 - 2/18: $1,140.40
    2/19 - 2/25: $721.40
    2/26 - 3/04: $1,344.56
    3/05 - 3/11: $159.39
    3/12 - 3/18: $296.88 <-- 4.4+ days lost due to Elantra door dent repair
    3/19 - 3/25: $160.30
    3/25 - 4/01: $176.19 <-- Short final week

    Previous 8+ Week(s) Cumulative Totals - 1,461 rides to date

    1/29 - 2/05: $766.79 <-- Short first week in Milwaukee
    2/05 - 2/11: $1,755.15
    2/12 - 2/18: $1,832.50
    2/19 - 2/25: $2,215.07
    2/26 - 3/04: $2,957.47
    3/05 - 3/11: $1,826.53
    3/12 - 3/18: $1,382.36 <-- 4.4+ days lost due to Elantra door dent repair
    3/19 - 3/25: $1,863.57
    3/25 - 4/01: $1,187.03 <-- Short final week
    $15,786.47 + $1,410 insurance loss of use = $17,196.47 minus $210 deductible = $16,986.47

    $2,123.30/week average

    Cumulative miIes on the (2) platforms: 15,482 miles with the additional 3,200 for the drive out from California.

    Consumables come to a grand total of $1,210 and include the following:
    • $40 oil change every 6k miles - $140 with the last and final oil change 300 miles ago.
    • $30 in Jolly Ranchers per month for a $30 outlay
    • $5.60 in water per week for a $45 outlay
    • $12 for the Lemon Grass and pads which should last for a year or more for a < $1/month
    • $57 in Illinois Tollway charges
    • $888 in fuel at 41.9 mpg
    • $84.81 for (2) months of vehicle insurance
    • $104 for phone -- $22/month for the phone and $60 for the service
    All-in, about $15,636.66 net income.

    With tire wear calculated at $0.005/mile above, new front discs and pads at $0.004/mile - $200 at 50k miles, and the car being completely depreciated to $0 after 150k miles - $0.106/mi, the std. maintenance and deprecation items cost $77 for tires, $62 for brakes, and $1,651.41 over those same 15,482 miles.

    A true net not including any repair which I covered in a fully depreciated vehicle at 150k miles comes in at $13,985.25 over 15,482 miles or $0.903/mile all in not including Fed and State taxes on the income minus the $0.54/mile, 20 percent pass-through, including all consumable expenses with Maintenance, repair, and fuel for the car detailed above.

    Again, this shows how important it is to optimize your vehicle purchase including the fuel consumption and optimize your rideshare driving habits in and around the Chicago Designated Market Area (DMA).

    Drive the Rush Hour bonus hours and push for the total ride bonus' on the Uber platform, do not go much over the bonus total rides or Uber will reduce your bonus from $65 to $50 for 50 rides in the Mon - Thurs and Fri - Sun period, do not take over 12-minute out Lyft rides unless they indicate 45+ minutes, bias your drive toward the city despite the higher vehicle maintenance and repair - I am seeing upwards of $5/hr more when running inside the city of Chicago vs. outside, and watch your pennies at every turn. Meaning look for water, Jolly Ranchers, oil changes, tires, and your phone plan and phone itself at the best deals possible. If you do not, your rideshare profit or loss will be at your own peril.

    Also, vacuum out and wipe down the interior of your car each and every day before heading out. wipe down the seats as often as possible to remove any hair or lint that may have been left over form the previous ride - even if by hand while still belted in up front, wear a polo, and welcome each rider as they get in and thank them for riding with Uber/Lyft as they exit.

    I hope to have a similar TCO and net income generated for San Diego DMA as the year goes by as well. Fuel in San DIego is going to average > $3.50 + per gallon vs. $2.40 here in IL over the past 8-weeks. :(

  2. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    As I traveled from IL to CA this week, I was launching the two platforms before crossing the border ahead, shutting down prior to the cross, and relaunching in the next state. Chicago region drivers can now drive in both WI and IA. As soon as I tried to launch the app in NE, it showed I was unable. NE, WY, UT and NV showed not able to drive under the Uber app. When I got to CA, the Uber app showed my car was not registered? The Sonata Hybrid is and Uber had deleted it from my vehicle selections? I have been working for over 4-days to try and get it back on...

    Lyft was good in all states but when I arrived in CA, I launched the app and it showed me going online. When I checked the Lyft rider app, it did not show me online or at my location? I called Lyft Support and they said in CA, DL, Registration, and Plates will be needed to drive in CA.

    puddleglum and BillLin like this.
  3. BillLin

    BillLin PV solar, geothermal HVAC, hybrids and electrics

    In retrospect (I just happened to be looking elsewhere), that's a darned good deal! Over 2.5x at Amaz-n.

    Edit: fixed my math
    EdwinTheMagnificent and xcel like this.
  4. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    A few updates...

    With fuel prices more than $1.00 higher per gallon here in San Diego than my February/March experience in IL, the entire earnings calculations will have to be recalculated.


    Base Fare: $1.70
    Per Minute: $0.20
    Per Mile: $0.95
    Cancellation Fee: $5
    Minimum Fare: $4.60

    San Diego

    Base Fare: None
    Per Minute: $0.15
    Per Mile: $1.16
    Cancellation Fee: $5
    Minimum Fare: $6.65

    San Diego's 1.17/mile, $0.15/min, and $6.65 minimum rate vs Chicago's $0.90/mile, $0.20/min, and $4.60 rate(s) - San Diego and LA traffic jams are far more severe - may come to play here. Drivers receive just 75 percent of the rates posted above.

    Regardless, no matter where in the country a driver lives, higher fuel prices are going to squeeze those rates harder than ever before. With no driver rate increases in sight from either Uber or Lyft, those $s will be coming out of the drivers earnings. Expect to see many more marginal earning drivers to drop out due to their own wrong Rideshare vehicle choice.

    U.S. Gasoline and Diesel Prices - April 23rd, 2018


    My Samsung Galaxy S8 + shows evidence of screen burned as you can see a ghosted image of the Uber apps GUI on the screen.

    The iOttie 4 smartphone mount is great but with the higher temperatures and more sunlight here in San Diego, I am seeing high temperatures not allowing charging during some day time periods. I will be purchasing an iOttie 4 vent mount shortly and see how that works. I despise the vent mounts as they usually break the damn vent guides.

    In addition, Geico Insurance no longer has a Rideshare rider and will only provide Commercial insurance for Uber/Lyft. Geico's Commercial insurance cost is absolutely prohibitive at $1,800/year, limited to 100/300/100 Coverage, and does not cover the period the platforms cover the vehicle. That is ridiculous. I am insuring through Amica with no rider necessary for the time being.

    One other item I have been thinking about... Given the low hurdle for entry other than a Background Check, Driving Record, basic vehicle inspection, DL, registration, and plates, if the economy at anytime in the near future heads into recession, a lot of formerly employed persons will be entering this workforce driving up supply of drivers just as demand will be falling off due to the same declining economic conditions. Expecting to earn $20+/hour or $0.90/mile after expenses but before taxes will be nothing more than wishful thinking when/if this rapid supply/demand shift occurs.

    BillLin likes this.
  5. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    I purchased an iOttie One Touch 4 Air Vent mount last week and let my wife give it a try. There is not a chance this will work for ride share.

    iOttie Easy One Touch 4 Air Vent Mount


    It holds a phone but if you need to interact at a pickup or drop off, it moves around on the weak vent to mount clamp like it is secured by rubber bands. With no bottom support arms, as soon as you release it, it falls through your hands meaning you almost need two hands to pull it so as to not drop your phone to the floor.

    That was a total waste of $26.xx for its intended purpose. My wife is just ok with it so far.

    BillLin likes this.
  6. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    I took my wife's 17 Sonata Hybrid with the iOttie One Touch 4 air vent mount to the San Diego airport and back today. For ride share, it is not going to work. It just is not stable enough to hold the phone and allow interaction without pushing on a string. Just way to much movement even when pushed all the way back into the vent edges which it does not stay there anyway.

    The 17 Sonata Hybrid Limited's results taking my sons and his wife to the airport and back. The Elantra ECO would have been about the same. Even with 50+ mpg results, $3.65+/galon fuel is going to suck.

    2017 Hyundai Sonata Hybrid

    58.1 mpg over 78 miles - 56.3 mpg over 79 miles actual.​

    Also, the San Diego cabs were in force at San Diego Intl. Hundreds upon hundreds were in the cab waiting lot. ??? Their rates posted on the side of their vehicles as expected. $2.80 for the first 1/10th of a mile, $3.00/mile, and $24.00 per hour wait time. This compares to San Diego Uber/Lyft's $6.65 Minimum Fare, $1.16/mile, and $0.15/minute or $12.00/hour wait time.

    What this shows is that Taxi cabs are prohibitively expensive and Uber/Lyft ride share costs appear to be to low. Supply meets demand in this regard however. Especially the $1.16/mile and $12.00 per hour wait time. Given the fuel costs in the San Diego area now averaging $3.66 per gallon and still rising, it will be interesting to finally see how Southern Calif. Ride share works.

    I cannot get my license and vehicle registered in Calif. until at least June 8th.

    BillLin likes this.
  7. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    While Lyft has been sending me notes about guaranteed minimums of $675 for 70-rides and such to get me back under their platform - big nothing here, starting today they increased rates for the Chicago DMA by 5 percent or an additional $0.04/mile and $0.0075/min. At $0.04/mile, this will easily cover the increase in fuel costs from ~ $2.40/gal in February ($0.06/mi) to $2.90/gallon today (.0725 /mi) at 40 mpg ($0.0125/mile extra cost) but still does not remove the systemic long pickup problem Lyft has to fix to make the platform viable to work under. Or I highly recommend that drivers continue to reject 11-minute + pickups.

    They have also done nothing to help drivers receive the tiered bonuses. Remember the week I worked a 90+ hours and barely touched a second level bonus for $90 with 4 available up to $390. I had to average 2+ rides per hour during each hour of their peak , keep a 90+ percent acceptance rate, and knock out 70+ rides. Knocking out the 70+ was doable if you were willing to get screwed on long pickups but you could never reach the Peak hours drive numbers required for a decent bonus in the Northern Suburbs of Chicago. Not even close.

    Meanwhile Uber raised them first and their weekday and weekend bonuses are still based on individual rides. Achieve your 25, 35, 45, 50, 65, or 70 rides and take home the $2 to $3/ride up to the 25, 35, 45, 50, 65, or 70 bonus amount. All Uber bonuses were easily achievable while under 40 hour 4-day workweek and a 25 hour 3-day weekend. Uber also has Peak Hour ride bonuses of $2 to $3 per and they pay for each one that you take, not after you have achieved 50 or more which is almost impossible under Lyft.

    Lyft Chicago - New Driver Rates

    These rates are in effect starting on 05/14/2018.​

    Pre 5/14/2018 Chicago Lyft rates for Customer/Driver at 75 percent

    Base Fare: $1.70/$1.275
    Per Minute: $0.20/$0.15
    Per Mile: $0.95/$0.7125
    Cancellation Fee: $5/$5 and $10
    Minimum Fare: $4.60/$3.45

    5/14/2018 Chicago Lyft rates for Customer/Driver at 75 percent

    Base Fare: $1.79/$1.3425
    Per Minute: $0.21/$0.1575
    Per Mile: $1.00/$0.75
    Cancellation Fee: $5/$5 and $10
    Minimum Fare: $4.60/$3.45

    5/11/2018 Chicago Uber rates for Customer/Driver at 75 percent

    Base Fare: $1.79/$1.3425
    Per Minute: $0.21/$0.1575
    Per Mile: $1.00/$0.75
    Cancellation Fee: $5
    Service Fees: $1.85
    Minimum Fare: $4.85/$3.63

    BillLin likes this.
  8. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    HI All:

    I am not an accountant but it is time to start working on the tax angles.

    Every driver receives a $0.54/mile deduction against wages. This deduction is from the time you turn the key to the time you get back home again after a day/night with Uber/Lyft rideshare.

    A Full-time driver should reach $50k over 50k miles not incl. cash tips if they drive in a decent region and do not screw around. Of that $50k income, $27,000 is deducted for the mileage deduction meaning taxable income is just $23k. SS and MC are due on the full $23k so FICA tax at 15.3 percent = $3,519. Moving on to the Federal again, the 20 percent pass through provision allows 20 percent of that $23k in income as a tax deduction equaling $4,600. This brings the taxable income down to $18,400. This amount is taxed at 12 percent for a total Federal tax due of $2,208.

    For a driver earning $50k, his or her effective Fed tax rate is just 4.4 percent. Fed tax due of $2,208 and FICA of $3,519. This is one heck of a low effective tax rate. Using the previous TCO analysis of $0.106 per mile with fuel at $2.50 per gallon moving to approximately $0.13/mile all-in at $3.75 per gallon and 40 mpg, the profit after Fed and FICA ends up at $50k minus $2,208 (Fed) - $3,519 (FICA) - $6,500 (Vehicle TCO) = $37,773. Your state taxes are based on the rate * $27,000. California at 4 percent for income below $38k ($1,080) sees the driver taking home $36,693 from the $50k of total income. This also equates to $0.73/mile all-in.

    Now let us move the same analysis but with a full time aggressive driver at 75k miles per year and earning $75k/year while doing so. Of the $75k income,$40,500 is deducted for mileage leaving $34,500 taxable. FICA at 15.3 percent is pulled from this result for a total of $5,278. Fed is based on the Adjusted gross after the 20 percent pass through or $6,900 from the $34,500 leaving a Fed taxable income of $27,600. The same 12 percent Fed tax rate applies yielding a Fed tax due of $3,312. The California State rate is still 4 percent on the $34,500 so $1,380 is due the state. Using the same $0.13/mile all-in vehicle TCO, the driver will take home $75k - $5,278 (FICA) - $3,312 (Fed) - $1,380 (State) - $9,750 (vehicle TCO) = $55,280 and $0.737/mile all-in.

    What is still extremely important is that you keep you vehicle TCO down to a minimum. A FSP CUV will only massively reduce your take home. Think of losing another $6,500 on the $50k and $9,750 on the 75k mile analysis with a $28k total cost vehicle at just 20 mpg.

    If anyone knows an accountant, can you forward this simple $50k and $75k analysis to them to complete a basic check to make sure the results are solid.

    BillLin likes this.
  9. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    While in the Chicago area, I got back in the saddle yesterday through early this morning...


    270 miles so the $/mile was up with the new higher rates but it was a Friday and it was a Holiday weekend so this is not representative. Just over $26/hour incl tips.

    I ran the LYFT app for about 15-minutes and canceled 2 pings at 10+ minutes. The poor driver insurance given the $2,500 deductible, no long pickup fee, no additional $1 Line (Share) pickup for the second, third, and fourth, rider etc., and no achievable bonuses make it an also ran in Chicago. They continue to send me e-mail with similar wording. Here is this mornings.
    Almost $10 per hour guaranteed while driving your own vehicle??? vs. Uber's current 25 rides for $50 and 55 rides for $105 on top of each rides earnings which are achievable? Uber's first tier $50 bonus was complete by 10:00 pm last night. The second tier is 21 more rides away, Hopefully tonight.

    The Elantra ECO with A/C running all day achieved 40.2 mpg with a 21 mph avg. speed.

    Jay and BillLin like this.
  10. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    As Memorial day comes to a close, I thought I should update Chicago Rideshare earnings potential during the Spring/Summer season given my experience this Memorial Day weekend. Given the Holiday, ride counts and earnings were probably skewed as Saturday I had 13 Surge price rides whereas I usually average just 1 or 2 a day.

    Uber - $946.78 total

    Friday (16 hours) - $366.78 + $20 cash or $24.17/hour
    12:30 pm to 03:15 am + 04:02 am to 04:22 am - Stopped at 04:45 am + 0:45 minutes dead head back + $20 cash ride

    Saturday (6.5 hrs) + Lyfts $16.24 - $170.15 + $16.24 or $28.67/hr
    08:11 pm to 02:02 am + 45 minutes dead head back

    Sunday (15 hrs) - $289.85 + Monday $42.53 + Lyfts $3.46 or $335.84 for $22.39/hour
    04:39 pm to 03:30 am + 04:26 am to 05:22 am and started back at 5:45 am

    Lyft - $19.70 (added to totals below)

    Sunday - $16.24
    Monday - $03.46

    $946.78 + $42.53 + $19.70 + $20 cash ride = $1,029.01 over 37.5 hours or $27.44/hour. This does not include any cash tips that may or may not have been received.

    Total miles traveled, 839 miles for a Gross $1.22/mile result. I suspect even with the higher distance and time rates, a driver will earn ~ $1.05 per mile as bonuses have been scaled back in Chicago significantly. No per peak ride bonus and $30 for 20-rides or $60 for 90-rides are the worst I have seen since starting this ordeal.

    Fuel is now $2.95/gal plus running A/C 100 percent of the time allowed just 39 mpg actual. Fuel costs was $63.44 fuel cost ($0.075/mi).


    Fuel: $0.075/mi
    Insurance: $0.01/mi
    Oil Change: $0.005/mi
    Tires (est): $0.005/mi
    Brakes (est.): $0.004/mi
    Depreciation + M&R: $0.11/mi
    Fed and CA State Taxes: $0.065/mi (16 percent of 40 percent of gross)

    Earnings minus expenses should come to the following:

    $1.05/mi - $0.165/mi = $0.885/mi

    BillLin likes this.
  11. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    A real quick update as I am about to leave for Nashville to drive the all-new 2019 Lexus ES 350h on Friday.

    Tuesday was a bit slow and with the low Uber $30 for 20 ride bonus, I stopped essentially at 20 rides. Turned out to be 27 on Uber and 12 on Lyft lead to a $22.35/hour payout ($335) not incl any cash tips over 15-hours. It was pretty darn slow yesterday until about 11:00 pm when it took off until 04:30 am in and around downtown Chicago. 260 miles on the Elantra Eco during the Tuesday afternoon, evening, night, and Wednesday morning driving.

    Lyft added a 5-ride streak for an extra $10 through their peak hours. Running both under destination filter yielded nothing over the 45-minute dead head back home this morning after taking a 2.5 hour nap in a Target parking lot in Highland Park, IL early this morning.

    BillLin likes this.
  12. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    While bonus' are shrinking to nothing and not making up for the 5 percent rate hike last month, I changed things up a bit with some O'Hare airport run from the Uber/Lyft driver que. Decent results but more experimentation is needed.

    My first run showed just 3 in the Uber Que and as soon as I crossed into the Rideshare Transport Network Provider (TNP) driver area just a few miles outside of O'Hare, I received a ping. The next time out there were 77 on Lyft and 103 on Uber. It took 15-minutes to run that to the Lyft ping. The third visit after 11:00 pm last night showed 123 on Uber and 103 on Lyft. 20-minutes later the countdown went to 0 and I received a Lyft ping.

    Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday earnings exceeded $1k by a few $s over 783 miles of Rideshare. Cash not included.

    I also created a new sign with more details on Ratings. Here is what is in my Elantra Eco now. I will explain more on this later as my Uber rating is 4.94 and Lyft is down to 4.91.


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  13. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    Lyft "Prime Time" (surge) rant...

    Ravinia in Highland Park, IL had Anita Baker in for a concert last night. Neither Lyft or Uber made mention of this concert...

    Nobody hangs out in the Highland Park, IL area at 11:00 pm on a Sunday night as there are no requests. It is lucky to see 3 to 5 drivers within 10-miles of this city at this time of night on both the Uber and Lyft "rider" apps.

    I burned through my 10-hour Chicago maximum with 2 final into and out of O'Hare rides and missed escaping the city limits by 15-minutes by 10:00 pm so was unable to take another Uber ride until the 4 am local reset.

    I was on a Lyft destination filter heading home and received a 14-minute ping ahead with a 75% Prime Time boost. I picked up the pax, drove them 4-miles to their destination while learning that Anita Baker was on hand. There were hundreds to thousands of people standing on the suburban streets in the rain with phones out trying to get rides. I opened up Uber Driver and it was maximum red for 3 cities in all direction. Lyft as usual was showing a non-Prime Time gap right through the middle. Next ping was for a 25-mile ride out of the area with "NO Prime Time" boost despite hundreds in the area looking for a ride.

    The second 25-mile ride out was a fellow Uber driver and his family out of the Orlando area. He said Uber was providing estimates of $130 to $140 for the same ride that he had a $45 estimate for under Lyft.

    I have seen this pattern on the Lyft platform hundreds of times with the surge parting in front and closing in behind as I drive through the Chicago market area. Rarely have I received a Lyft Prime time boost - count on two hands the number over almost 600 rides on Lyft. 1,200 rides on Uber and hundreds with a surge addition.

    In any case, Lyft plays a lot of games with their Prime Time areas so keep this in mind with future pickups.

    Uber - 1,231 rides to date
    Lyft - 591 rides to date

    Last weeks (June 04 - 11) earnings not incl. any cash tips.

    Uber - $1,885.21
    Lyft - $550.88

    My Elantra ECO ready to take on Chicago for yet another week of ride share.


    BillLin likes this.
  14. MrWhsprs

    MrWhsprs New Member

    The AMOLED screens are wonderful for their very black blacks and resulting high contrast ratio but unfortunate they are susceptible to burn-in. I used to use a Samsung Galaxy SIII and it experienced burn-in from using Waze for a couple hours each day during my commute.

    Thanks for the updates on the ridesharing. Though I don't expect to become a ridesharing driver myself, it's interesting nonetheless to read about your experience.
    xcel and BillLin like this.
  15. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    I'm wondering if I have the temperament ( patience ) to do some Uber/LYFT driving myself. I do have the perfect car for it.

    I also wonder how my passengers will like riding in the Chicago summer with no A/C ?
    MrWhsprs, xcel and BillLin like this.
  16. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Mr. Whsprs:

    Thanks for the reply and it is to bad about the screen burn in. Great phone with one small attribute turning into a flaw.

    Edwin, :D We have to use A/C for PAX - Passengers on Uber X.

    It has been a very slow start of the week with only a $440 earned over the first two days. :(

  17. BillLin

    BillLin PV solar, geothermal HVAC, hybrids and electrics

    Maybe Edwin can cater to the masochistic crowd? ;) Might get great tips!
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  18. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Bill:

    With spring/summer temps and high humidity beginning in earnest in Chicago already, I wonder if one can hold on to their Rideshare app access with a 2.2 rating? :D

    EdwinTheMagnificent and BillLin like this.
  19. 08EscapeHybrid

    08EscapeHybrid Moderator

    I use Waze a lot, and haven't experienced any screen burn in. My current phone is an Essential PH-1, and my previous was a Sony Xperia XA.
    xcel and BillLin like this.
  20. seftonm

    seftonm Veteran Staff Member

    Both of those are LCD, OLEDs seem more prone to burn-in.
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