Discussion in 'General' started by seftonm, Aug 22, 2017.
Porsche Taycan !
You mean this?
2020 Porsche Taycan 4S BEV
2020 Porsche Taycan 4S with the Performance Battery/Performance Battery Plus for $103,800/$110,380 respectively.
It's back after a 3 week stay at the dealer! I actually was surprised at how quiet my car sounded compared to before. The gear whine sound is gone, but there was also a "cards in bicycle spokes" sound that used to be noticeable at low speeds. I had a dealer look into that sound way back when I first got my car and they said it was normal, so I kind of started to ignore that one. That sound is also gone now, so that noise probably wasn't actually normal. Glad that it's gone.
I was hoping to see a price list. Did the dealer provide what it actually cost to do that job?
Also, did you receive a loaner while it was in the shop?
The prices were all listed as $0. The dealer covered a rental car for me. Unfortunately, I had to take my dog to the vet while I had the rental, so I had to pay a $300 cleaning fee when I returned it. I was too frustrated after paying that fee to stick around and chat about parts and labour prices for my car, so I just got in my car and came home.
One of the (several) advantages of a manual transmission has been ... and continues to be that If there does happen to be a problem, .. it should be (relatively) simple and (relatively) cheap to break the transmission open, find the bad parts and replace them. It would be pretty odd and expensive to replace the entire manual transmission
Looks like they broke yours open and found some problem(s) with or about your reverse gear. Not sure why they needed to replace the starter(?)
Without going through the whole list, I'd say there was a few hundred dollars worth of parts plus the starter (which is about $400). 7.3 hours of labor x your shop rate is over $730 in labor. Setting aside the starter I would guess that you'd be looking at something comfortably under $2,000 if you had to pay Honda out of your own pocket for this repair (probably less if you took it to an independent well known and of solid reputation transmission shop (which is where I'd go if the car was out of warranty).
/type the part numbers in online if you want to see some of the prices
//glad they got you sorted out (finally) , .. thanks for keeping us updated
///one possible scenario is that somebody abused reverse (got rough with it) , damaged some things and the problem got worse over time (?)
I used to drive logging roads, often seldom used old ones, with 13 & 12 inch tired, narrow small cars. Often I would get my wheels on the center & edge high parts of rutted roads, & always got to where I was going. Still & all, I do like my present use of 1.5 to 2 inch larger diameter tires that I have on my Hyundai Accent & Elantra. The extra diameter tires give 3 quarters to 1 inch greater ground clearance. However, I am older & have physical problems now, so don't venture on remote mountain logging roads to hiking trails any longer.
At 33,500 mi,.. I had my MTF changed today. I didn't expect it too, but It actually did smooth out the shifting a little bit.
The service rep (former mechanic) said he would recommend changing the manual transmission fluid about every 30,000 miles or so. Unfortunately, they cannot "reset" the maintenance minder until it trips, .. so I will get the reminder (and have to ignore the reminder) unless I decide to go ahead and do another change when the maintenance minder time comes (40k, 50k, 60k ?). This reminder comes up when an engine oil change is due. So I will wait and see and make my mind up then,.. But I will likely be changing it out every 25,000 miles or so. (2 qts required, $7.50 ea at the Honda counter(surprisingly cheap), .. it cost right at $100 to have Honda do it.
I've driven Honda cars since the 70s and they've never had very good manual transmissions. My cars have been cursed with rubbery shifters with imprecise gates, and too light flywheels that made getting away from stops kinda rough. In contrast, my two Mazdas had superb manual transmissions. The manual Toyotas that I've driven had pretty good transmissions. My past experience with Honda manuals influenced my decision to go with the auto when I bought my Acura RSX. The popular RSX forums had thread after thread of complaints about 6M 2nd-gear grinding and other problems that wouldn't go away no matter what magic fluid they tried. Even with new transmissions, the problems would come back. Apparently, it takes a lot of engineering prowess to design a good manual transmission with effective, trouble-free syncros in all gears and Honda just doesn't have that talent. Mazda bought their manual transmissions from Aisin. I think Toyota did also.
I did test drive the 10th gen Civic hatch with a 6M and found the transmission flawed but acceptable--if it didn't deteriorate. It had notchy shifts (maybe because new) and rev hang but I was willing to give it a try. However, Honda was not willing to sell me one. No dealer within a 500 mile radius of me had one in stock and the wait to order one and get it in was more than 9 months. I got the distinct impression that Honda was trying to force everyone to the CVT. The CVT was an absolute deal-killer. I would never buy a CVT and thats why I'm not driving a 10th gen Honda Civic hatch.
To my way of thinking:
Lightweight flywheel: better city mpg, worse driving characteristics
Lightweight MTF: better mpg, worse driving characteristics
ECU induced "rev-hang": better emissions, worse driving characteristics
There's always tradeoffs. I think Honda does a pretty good job with the compromises. Too bad they don't (currently) want to sell their compromise (EX-T + 6MT) in the North America market.
/we are now several (4+ and counting) years into the turbocharged CVT'd gen X Civics. Reports of turbo problems/ CVT problems appear to be very few and far between.
My new transmission was very notchy when I got it, but it's become smoother now. It still seems to prefer slower shifts than my old one, but it's also getting colder here so that could be affecting it too.
From the road near your location in the picture, a good spotting scope from 5 or 6 miles away will show climbers near the top, as they ascend Mt. Rainier. On really clear steady air days, 30 power will show them in detail, even their swinging hands. A supreme apo-chromatic refractor would even be better. I believe Mt. Rainier has over half the glaciers in the continental United States. Some of the glacier thicknesses of 100 to 200 feet can also be viewed. One of the Mt. Rainer glaciers is 700 feet in thickness. From Mt. Enumclaw, northeast of Mt. Rainier, I got an excellent view of the Mt. Rainier northwest ridge in silhouette. The slope descended all the way to the bottom land AND dock areas of Fife & Tacoma, Wa., where international ships ply the Puget Sound waters. Geologists can recognize Mt. Rainer flos in Seattle.
YES!! The I-5 freeway is built on the very lowest slopes of Mt. Rainier & maybe into some of the higher hills, that I-5 ascends.
Driving hundreds of cars off the carships, showed that Mazda has the best manual trannies, plus the best driving cars. The RX-7 was a dream. Thought the Hondas were good too. Sorry Jay found Honda trannies bad. Our 2008 manual Hyundai Accent (157,000 miles) had an OK tranny & clutch (improved well with a recent sweet new clutch). Our 2016 manual Elantra is buttery smooth & engages lightly (so smooth, you feel a bit lost between gears). Now, I've come to love it, & wouldn't have any other, altho it isn't a rapid shifter. With a total of 145,000+ miles between our two automatic & manual Elantras, it is a guessing game which one will have the first need for an equipment repair.
I owned a number of manual Honda's , and IMO they are the gold standard. That's why it's
so perplexing and sad what happened to Sefton's car. My one manual Mazda was also excellent , but I
only had that one for eight years , 62K miles. The best-shifting car I ever drove ? You would never guess.
2008 Scion xB. Yes , the toaster on wheels. At the time I was chasing better highway efficiency , so I bought
my 08 Civic 5AT sedan. Toyota failed on that marketing experiment(Scion), but the cars were good.
I still want a manual car. Hopefully there will be some left when I am ready to buy (April 2021).
Couldn't afford a Toyota because they wouldn't deal (like Honda). The Scion never attracted me. But, Hyundai beat everyone on price......once Hyundai got over their egotistical adherence to retail prices (like all other dealers) & returned to their easy-to-drop prices.
Don't forget he bought that car with 7,000 miles on it. I am perhaps inclined to think that it was a rough 7,000 miles [his parts list looked to me like reverse gear and associated hardware was replaced]. On the CivicX forums, .. the only transmission issues (outside of notchy manuals) I can find are associated with cars that are running tunes well over 200 hp. These cars are not designed for that.
On the (somewhat minor)"notchy" shifting --- I'm not sure what the issue is. Mine had this characteristic from day 1. It got a little bit better after it was driven for a bit (1 or 2k miles?) but the notchiness was still there -- especially on the 1-2 shift. That is, until I changed the MTF yesterday. (Still with the Factory recommended and required Honda MTF). It is definitely shifting smoother. --- probably 1/2 or more of the notchiness has moved into the background.
Did Honda (quietly) change the MTF forumula (again)? -- I don't know. Does this thin stuff just wear out a lot quicker than the maintenance minder would have you believe? -- I don't know. Was my MTF level actually a little low from the factory? -- doubtful, but I don't know.
Manufacturers make improvements within model & series runs. Like they say, "Don't buy the first year of a new series. Let them work out the bugs". Improvements have been made between our 2013 & 2016 Elantras (same series). The 2016 engine is quieter & smoother than the 2013, above & beyond their advertised spec changes. Both cars have the same exterior color, but the 2016 color is better in several ways. The 2016 CC is more subtle than the 2013. The 2016 electric steering is more subtle than 2013 steering. As stated elsewhere, the new clutch in our 2008 Accent is an improvement over the original.
I think Honda's seen a few of these before. When I got my car, I noticed a louder than usual gear whine from the transmission within the first few days. I took it to the dealer and they heard it as well and spent a few days recording the sounds, tracking down the source, and talking with Honda. Honda said that they had seen that already in a few cases and were treating it as normal operation for the time being. So I lived with it for a few years until it started getting louder a few months ago, then took it back to have them take another look. So it seems like a few transmissions may have something that's "not quite right", which may or may not slowly develop into a louder problem.
That is one reason why I am reluctant to buy a used manual car. IMO ( not humble ) ,
most people don't know the "correct" way to drive manual. Some of them think it's a game to see how fast they
can slam the shifter from one gear to the next. Very few have an idea how synchros work ,and how it feels when
you nail a perfect shift. The Legacy station wagon I bought for #1 daughter about 15 years ago , was horribly sloppy.
She said " Dad , it's not a problem". Young folks probably adapt faster to this stuff.
Today , she drives a 2017 Nissan Pulsar 1.2 6MT. She's a good shifter.
Other cars that I bought new , like the GLC , Civic Si , and Corolla , all shifted well without any trans or clutch problems.
But if I don't hurry , the only desirable manual cars WILL be used. Hopefully not used up.
My wife is a good shifter, & an easy driver, but has no desire to earn "fuel sipping" status.
I always bought the cheapest reliable cars. The manual trannies, tho workable, detracted from 100% pleasure, somewhere in the gears. Our manual Elantra is so smooth in all gears, I felt lost between the gears. I've gotten used to it now, & would not experiment with any other shifter.
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