Sometimes when talking to the highly educated, you just have to do an eye roll

Discussion in 'Fuel Economy' started by ALS, Aug 20, 2017.

  1. ALS

    ALS Super Moderator Staff Member

    I was on another board yesterday and the owner had posted the latest article on the new Mazda engine.

    Well the conversation immediately went to fuel economy and how the new ICE motors are quickly gaining on the Hybrids and this isn't a good trend for the BEV's, especially Tesla.

    Anyways I brought up what I had learned from Wayne with his experience with Shell and how advanced the Top Tier gasoline's are today, and how they DO help you increase your fuel mileage. I explained my experience with switching over to Shell exclusively.

    I got the all gasoline comes out of the same refinery with a splash of additives there isn't any difference between Top Tier and non top tier. The guy I'm having this conversation with has an MBA and has owned business's in the internet and software domains. He's a very smart guy there's no doubt about that.

    There was a point I didn't want to go past because all it would do was annoy the guy and nothing I could say was going to change his mind.


    I decided to prove to myself that I was right today and took the 2010 Prius out for a drive. 70,250 miles, Defender tires, 44F-42R all stock and I'm running as I said Shell 87 exclusively.

    Went out for lunch and a three hour tour on the interstate. I set the cruise control to 55 mph, turned on the AC and just enjoyed the ride. 61.3 mpg for the day with no Hypermileing techniques applied.

    That 61.3 mpg proved to me, that there is a difference between various gasoline brands. :)
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  2. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

    i hate it when somebody's wrong on the internet. :)
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  3. MaxxMPG

    MaxxMPG Hasta Lavista AAA-Vee Von't Be Bach

    Yes! Nobody is ever wrong on the internet. And everybody is an expert on every topic. I am convinced that most kitchen fires are the result of some internet expert providing cooking tips that are actually arson tips that use food as the ignition source instead of petroleum solvents.
    Recall that the internet experts from a certain A A A organization would rant about how dangerous hypermiling techniques are when they A) had no idea what tips there were talking about and B) what they thought were hypermiling techniques were actually just poor driving techniques and C) were tragically unaware of actual laws. There was one numbnuts that questioned whether it was illegal to drive without shoes. At any given time, there about 500 billion motorists on the road texting (a true statistic because I am, of course, an internet expert!) - and they're worried about somebody slipping off the Sketchers???? #OhPlease...
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  4. phoebeisis

    phoebeisis Well-Known Member

    I use shell- 87 octane-exclusively
    mostly because I buy at the same station(and I buy a megamillions ticket also)
    my mpg-1998 suburban-is good(considering the vehicle)
    Good to know it is "better"
    Now it is about 5-6 cents more than discount brands
    but 2500 miles/yr-maybe 160 gallons-
    $10 a year-
    Now I'm cheap-very cheap-but even I'm not cheap enough to bother with $10/yr-especially name brand vs SAMS which might be 15 cents cheaper(but SAMS always races to the bottom-they are now selling "natural peanut butter" which I assumed was actually natural
    meaning peanuts salt maybe a little sugar
    well it isn't
    SAMS cheap SOBs-have taken out the nice expensive peanut oil
    replaced it with palm oil-sneaky cheap SOB MoFo trick
    Really annoys me when they pull some sneaky crap like that
    safe bet they do the same with their gas
    Additives-safe bet they can CHEAP OUT on additives-even with a name brand gas-they will find a way to cheap out!!
    Sams had better revert to BUY USA or I will dump SAMS WALMART etc
    and I prefer USA produce-and food
    Chinese "pine nuts" poisoned 1000's of FOODIES not too long ago-ruined their taste buds for 6 months or so
    now why a human would eat a PINE NUT??
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  5. PaleMelanesian

    PaleMelanesian Beat the System Staff Member

    Palm oil in peanut butter makes it not separate.
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  6. BillLin

    BillLin PV solar, geothermal HVAC, hybrids and electrics

    Wow, Andrew. You're like Bill Nye the science guy. :D
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  7. RedylC94

    RedylC94 Well-Known Member

    Uh ... Haven't you noticed that the major brands pull exactly the same sneaky cheap trick with their so-called "Natural" peanut butter lately? Sam's is merely following the leaders. Yes, it annoys me, too!

    Besides, they can claim the palm oil is natural palm oil---although it's certainly not a natural constituent of peanuts!

    One of the supermarket chains here sells their own brand of unadulterated "natural" peanut butter at good prices, and also sells the kind of adulterated, sugared "No stir" crap you mention, side by side, in containers that look identical---including the "Natural" word on the label, in the same font---until you read the labels carefully.
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2017
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  8. ALS

    ALS Super Moderator Staff Member

    Your post brings back memories of my parents buying me a Mr. Peanut peanut butter maker around 1967-69. You filled it with peanuts, cranked the handle and a peanut butter paste came out. In other words you got freshly made peanut butter.
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  9. BillLin

    BillLin PV solar, geothermal HVAC, hybrids and electrics

    The brand I consume is horrible for my health.

    "hydrogenated vegetable oil (cottonseed, soybean and rapeseed oil) to prevent separation"
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  10. Rode in a coworkers f150 with a v8 today. He asked what engine i had in my truck.
    4.3 v6 i said. Hunted pretty hard for a v6 i told him (didnt disclose it was a 2wd too)
    Why the v6 he asked
    Well i dont tow heavy but needed some towing, and the v6 was a good match for me with some towing and better mpg.
    Dude, if you wanted mpg you should've went with the v8. Im getting 27 mpg out of my truck. This thing is awesome, he said.
    I asked if he had reset his mpg meter lately.
    Cant remember the last time i reset it he said.
    Whats it say i asked.
    Click click click.... scroll scroll scoll....

    Avg mpg - 18.
    That cant be right he says. Im getting 27 all the time.

    He didn't see my double barrel eye roll
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  11. RedylC94

    RedylC94 Well-Known Member

    Typical, but less evil than the trans-fat they used to use for the same purpose.
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  12. phoebeisis

    phoebeisis Well-Known Member

    Andrew-do your-ones you lived on- Pacific Islands produce tropical oils-commercially??(palm oil is not a bad oil-it is cheaper than peanut oil which is why it substituted for expensive peanut oil )

    Hydrogenated vegetable oil almost always has a LITTLE trans fat in
    They are ALLOWED to put 0 grams Trans fat on the label
    IF it is less than .5 grams per serving-
    according to my Smuckers Natural 32 grams 200 calories is a serving
    so 4 of those 200 calories could be from Trans fats-2%
    A LITTLE trans fat of this sort is BAD for your blood vessels heart
    ( there are tiny amounts of benign trans fats in some animal sources I think)

    Palm oil is a saturated oil but health wise it is no big deal-and it has a nice flavor and mouth feel
    and it doesn't give the nasty after taste many cheap vegetable oils give
    unsaturated oils-cheap veggie oils- get oxidized easily( go rancid)
    a "little rancid" goes a long way - nasty after taste

    the nasty after taste some baked goods-cheaper packaged goods-had in the 1970's maybe 1980's was from using cheap vegetable oil-soy cotton and "rapeseed" (what a name-called something else now usually)
    Guessing "better" hydrogenation "fixed" that

    I double checked the hydrogenation "story"
    1) in nature almost all fats are CIS same side
    2) the catalyst used to speed up hydrogenation tend to convert "some" of the CIS fats to Trans fats-make it more an even MIX
    3)Guessing there might be some clever way to decrease this-and of course they could just fully hydrogenate the vegetable oils-but this would usually make them solid-which isn't desirable I guess-not always anyway
    Just guessing but perhaps they fully hydrogenate them-then MIX them with un-hydrogenated vegetable oil-pure guess but that would come to mind
    But CIS fats do tend to go rancid-oxidize-Trans apparently don't go rancid as readily
    Maybe adding anti-oxidants to the oils helps??

    Anyway I would avoid any hydrogenated oils-and sure as hell avoid CANOLA CRAP !
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2017
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  13. phoebeisis

    phoebeisis Well-Known Member

    Slight aside
    Rapeseed oil-in USA we call it CANOLA-to obscure what it is
    and what it is
    just great-amazing the crap BIG AGRICULTURE BIG FOOD feeds us-
    they are on a par with BIG Tobacco
    actually worse since EVERYONE who hs ever smoked KNEW from that first puff and cough-that it was poison
    as a 7 year old kid -1958- we called cigarettes coffin nails( didn't need and surgeon general)
    Greed really is the root of all evil-slavery many wars(Brit opium wars) various food science crap the current opiate screw up-all greed-

    Below a cut-wiki I think

    Rapeseed oil is one of the oldest vegetable oils, but historically was used in limited quantities due to high levels of erucic acid, which is damaging to cardiac muscle of animals, and glucosinolates, which made it less nutritious in animal feed.[23] Rapeseed oil can contain up to 54% erucic acid.[24] Food-grade canola oil derived from rapeseed cultivars, also known as rapeseed 00 oil, low erucic acid rapeseed oil, LEAR oil, and rapeseed canola-equivalent oil, has been generally recognized as safe by the United States Food and Drug Administration.[25]Canola oil is limited by government regulation to a maximum of 2% erucic acid by weight in the USA[25] and 5% in the EU,[26] with special regulations for infant food. These low levels of erucic acid are not believed to cause harm in human neonates.[25][26]
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2017
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  14. phoebeisis

    phoebeisis Well-Known Member

    Yes it-the trans isomers- do that-less likely to separate-
    but it is TOXIC in its effect on arteries
    and Rapeseed-renamed Canola for obvious and not obvious reasons-it Literally toxic to heart muscle
    Our more agriculturally literate ancestors probably KNEW that Rapeseed was "bad" as a food-made cattle sickly so not a big leap that it would sicken humans-
    but our food science folks found a way around our fears(changed name)
    and by cultivating varieties lower in the most toxic molecules they managed to convince the FDA it was safe
    Of course it is very difficult to demonstrate low level toxicity in humans
    heck hard to show it with various carefully vetted FDA medications( careful vetting of drugs isn't so careful anymore since lots of human testing done in India China etc-)

    Oh well raining like heck here-River Ridge 70123-and we are 400+ miles from Harvey-
    Poor Houston-
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  15. PaleMelanesian

    PaleMelanesian Beat the System Staff Member

    When I lived there in Papua New Guinea, the main product was coconut oil. Local groves, local people harvest and bag it up for shipment to town. Things have changed. The oil palm is the new hotness. It's a different tree, with clusters of tiny nuts. It's a different style too, with international corporations buying up thousands of acres and bulldozing them, and then hiring the previous owners as plantation workers. The people are earning an income, but they no longer have their land to grow crops, so overall I see a loss. Not to mention the Rainforest that's now missing.
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  16. BillLin

    BillLin PV solar, geothermal HVAC, hybrids and electrics

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  17. phoebeisis

    phoebeisis Well-Known Member

    Not completely unlike the loss of family farms here in USA
    Pretty sure BIG AGRICULTURE has bought up huge areas
    EVEN worse-
    MUCH MUCH MUCH worse they are foolishly using just a few seed varieties
    seed varieties engineered for various currently helpful properties-
    maybe resistance to that crap ROUNDUP-weed grass killer-and perhaps specific insects pests
    Genetic diversity in crops humans have grown for 5000-8000 years-is gone
    Worse no natural variations are happening-
    any changes-perhaps changes in rainfall-or some insect moving N
    or more likely some microbe or virus finding changing conditions to their liking
    well we will starve
    Heck we don't have to look very far back- 1845-
    the poor potato eating Micks-8,000,000 were in Ireland 1845-after the potato failure(some fungi I think caused rot)
    well 4,000,000
    the rest 1,000,000 starved-the rest left
    surprisingly it didn't put the Micks off potatoes-in the 1950's-1960's
    we ate them EVERY FREAKIN DAY-boiled mostly(hated them) mashed-with butter ok- baked with butter-pretty good
    Never fried-cheap(poor) Irish oil fats were expensive water was cheap-so never fried(everything fried is good)
    usually boiled

    Andrew-so commercial tropical oil production-forest GONE on those prone to erosion islands-
    heavy rains Typhoons monsoon-
    people having no stake in the land
    Gee I'm practically a commie
    and now we have the Koch brothers encouraging COAL???
    as if coal mining was a GOOD JOB? pays OK-but it still ruins your lungs-takes longer now-
    Coal has killed shortened more lives than any other mineral

    Gee why use coal when NG is so plentiful
    and wind-plenty of wind(expensive of course)-same case solar
    Oh well practicallty a commie

    Slight aside-andrew you must have seen the salmonella reports-chickens-
    our neighbors had me tend to their 6 egg laying(pet I think/hope-don't think they plan to slaughter them)
    chickens have more personality than I knew
    Surprised that even small home flocks are contaminated with pathogens(from huge commercial growers who put antibiotics in feed-speeds growth etc)

    At least 10 years ago testing showed 30% of commercial eggs(internally in many cases) were contaminated with pathogens-usually salmonella-
    not soft boiled or sunny side up for me!!
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  18. PaleMelanesian

    PaleMelanesian Beat the System Staff Member

    Ha. You found something else relevant to my history. My family came here from Ireland because of that potato famine.

    Chickens - keeping a clean coop is the best way to reduce risk of salmonella. This report prompts me to clean it now instead of next week. The other thing is that crowded chickens share more diseases. Mine spend all day out on the acres in the grass. Not like the commercial places with 10,000 birds in one barn all breathing the same air.
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  19. litesong

    litesong litesong

    Are they Chinese?
  20. litesong

    litesong litesong

    The mate was a mighty sailin' lad,
    The Skipper brave and sure,
    Five passengers set sail that day,
    For a three hour tour,
    A three hour tour......:) :)
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