But older cars are better than todays cars, NOT

I don't know, Wayne. I think the Prius is a total ripoff compared to my Kroger Koupe...

 

It irritates me that he's attempting to discredit Wayne , or even call him a liar. This guy is a putz. But kind of an entertaining putz.

 

He's charming and reminiscent of that fellow who used to be on Nox Fews channel - Blenn Geck.

 

What the heck happened here?!

I fount that little car charming. Not something I'd own except as part of a pantheon of Jalopnik-worthy oddballs - I like that kind of thing - it's not a bad idea but probably wasn't really ready for prime time.

My Pa and I briefly had a Mercedes 190b Ponton sedan. Brilliantly engineered chassis, rode like a Cadillac yet handled far better than I'd have a right to expect, but it was not a whole lot faster. 0-60 somewhere just under 20 seconds...I want to say 17 seconds? It was already borderline for public roads. And FE was nothing special unless you kept it under ~45mph. Interesting side note, they had a basic steady-state FE graph published in the owner's manual.

I think I'll take the high road and keep my Glenn Beck comments to myself

 

The Berkeley was never a mainstream car, that was never meant to carry people any more than a moped is. here's a video showing it had a fiberglass reinforced frame that attests to it's lightweight.

When designing any car, similarly to a solar system, requires identifying what it will be used for. A "one fits all" car's purpose design is compromised when a lot of features are built in to accommodate a percentage of each desired intended purposes. This curb weight and loaded weight dictates engine torque and horsepower peak rpm range with transmission gear ratio, in addition to the final drive ratio so the engine doesn't overload causing failure, as the Prius was not intended for extended driving in mountains. Since electric motors create more low end torque, the Prius computer sensed the unusual excessive load and automatically switched to the electric motor. As a taxi vehicle carrying a couple of people and their luggage 10-20 miles and unloading,there's no problem, since the gas motor can recharge the batteries as it can with a person with luggage on flat road grades.
Wayne's questions, "Can that antique even carry 200 lbs of gear?With a 0 to 60 time of over 30-seconds, 200 lbs is got to slow it to what, 40 seconds to hit 60 with its WOT max speed of 62 mph? The word, "antique" is vague and ambiguous.
To give you the benefit of doubt, I will give you an example how any vehicle's performance design formula, that effects load carrying ability, fuel economy and achievable speeds. This same formula is used for any known motor's power production, whether it's electric, steam, gas, diesel, hydrogen, etc. An industry standard for any vehicle to have a respectable performance for stand still acceleration, and obtainable highway speeds based on loaded weight. Wheel torque is 1/3 of vehicle weight for take off. wheel torque of 1/10 for cruising. If there are lower gears than these ratios, quicker acceleration. A higher overdrive, better fuel economy and higher speeds that will not provide enough torque when climbing steep road grades. In an elevator pulling straight up, 1 foot pounds of torque per pound of weight will easily lift weight straight up very quickly!
My 50 year old Mercury Cougar is an antique. The engine produces 400 foot pounds of torque @ 4000 rpms. The rear gear is 3 to 1 final drive ratio. The weight of the car is 3100 lbs. First gear is 6 to 1 low, 2nd gear 3 to 1 low and final drive gear ratio is 1 to 1. Respectfully this equates to 7200 foot pounds of torque in first gear, 6 foot pounds in second gear and 1200 foot pounds of torque in high. The vehicle's weight is divided by the torque is 2.5833. The quarter mile ET is 13.5 seconds @ 105 mph. Carrying another 200 pound man will slow it down to 14 sec @ 97 mph. I've pulled other same weight cars on the interstate with it, besides 4 grown men in it driving up the steep mountains in Guatemala. I doubt seriously you car could compete.

As I said before, I've never liked 2 cycle engines, let alone the 322 cc in the Berkeley. micro car the 4 stroke 500 cc is the right motor!
Don't get me wrong, I do like the Prius concept, not the body style or the power config.
Jaguar did it right with better fuel economy.
https://www.jaguarusa.com/about-jag.../4191857_tcm97-10930_desktop_1366x769.jpg?v=1

 

Usually an gas engine produces HP & torque at different rpm ranges. If it's cammed for lower-mid or upper end rpm torque determines the gearing and load. Using the same formula I posted on Wayne's reply,
assuming the HP is about equal to the torque, with an average 3 to 1 final gear ratio and an 6 to 1 gear ratio such as second gear would provide 540 foot pounds of torque (over half on 16% climb up road grade). To calculate the speed you take the RPM's and the wheel diameter divide the geared ratio by 5280 feet in a mile. Example: Engine is turning 4000 rpm divide 18 lower gear ratio is 222.22 wheel rpm's X 60 minutes = 13,333.33. A 24 inch diameter wheel is multiplied by pie (3,1416) is how many inches the wheel is rolled out, divided by 12 = 6.2832 feet times 13,333.33 rpm's = 83776 feet divide 5280 feet in a mile equals 15,86 mph. If the road is not as steep 250 foot pound torque speed increases to 35-40 mph, which is why 6 speed transmissions can find the right torque needed. As the car levels out more 150 to 100 (high gear) the speed will increase to 60-80 mph.

 

The Berkeley was never a mainstream car, that was never meant to carry people any more than a moped is.
When designing any car, similarly to a solar system, requires identifying what it will be used for. A one fits all car's purpose design is compromised with number of features to accommodate a percentage of each desired intended purposes. This curb weight and loaded weight dictates engine torque and horsepower peak rpm range with transmission gear ratio with the final drive ratio so the engine doesn't overload causing failure, as did the Prius did going through the Arizona mountains. Since electric motors create more low end torque, the Prius's computer sensed the unusual excessive load and automatically switched to the electric motor. As the taxi vehicle carrying a couple of people and their luggage 10-20 miles and unloading,there's no problem, since the gas motor can recharge the batteries as it can with a person with luggage on flat road grades.
Wayne's questions, "Can that antique even carry 200 lbs of gear?With a 0 to 60 time of over 30-seconds, 200 lbs is got to slow it to what, 40 seconds to hit 60 with its WOT max speed of 62 mph? The word, "antique" is vague and ambiguous.
To give you the benefit of doubt, I will give you an example how any vehicle's performance design formula, that effects load carrying ability, fuel economy and achievable speeds. This same formula is used for any known motor's power production, whether it's electric, steam, gas, diesel, hydrogen, etc. An industry standard for any vehicle to have a respectable performance for stand still acceleration, and obtainable highway speeds based on loaded weight. Wheel torque is 1/3 of vehicle weight for take off. wheel torque of 1/10 for cruising. If there are lower gears than these ratios, quicker acceleration. A higher overdrive, better fuel economy and higher speeds that will not provide enough torque when climbing steep road grades. In an elevator pulling straight up, 1 foot pounds of torque per pound of weight will easily lift weight straight up very quickly!
My 50 year old Mercury Cougar is an antique. The engine produces 400 foot pounds of torque @ 4000 rpms. The rear gear is 3 to 1 final drive ratio. The weight of the car is 3100 lbs. First gear is 6 to 1 low, 2nd gear 3 to 1 low and final drive gear ratio is 1 to 1. Respectfully this equates to 7200 foot pounds of torque in first gear, 6 foot pounds in second gear and 1200 foot pounds of torque in high. The vehicle's weight is divided by the torque is 2.5833. The quarter mile ET is 13.5 seconds @ 105 mph. Carrying another 200 pound man will slow it down to 14 sec @ 97 mph. I've pulled other same weight cars on the interstate with it, besides 4 grown men in it driving up the steep mountains in Guatemala. I doubt seriously you car could compete.

As I said before, I've never liked 2 cycle engines, let alone the 322 cc in the Berkeley. micro car the 4 stroke 500 cc is the right motor! to see how light the car is watch how one man picked up one end of the car here:

Don't get me wrong, I do like the Prius concept, not the body style or the power config.
Jaguar did it right with better fuel economy.
https://www.jaguarusa.com/about-jag.../4191857_tcm97-10930_desktop_1366x769.jpg?v=1

 

Napoleon sure needed the $$-hence the sale of "Louisiana"
but I can't imagine he was actually going to pay back Brit banks that were foolish enough to lend him $$ ??

I just read he was planning to use the $$ to invade britain-makes sense
You are sorta right-he used a Brit-Dutch "bank" to finance the deal
But Napoleon didn't "borrow" from THEM- we did-USA- we gave them gold as a down payment-and the rest was "bonds" we issued-promised to pay-guessing we did pay.

AL- thanks for the numbers-48 mpg at a speed that certainly was less that 60 mph-since top speed was just 62mph
wich they did 60 mph speed runs like "WE" do here- impossible to properly compare MPG claims
our 60 mph steady MPG numbers are the first thing look for in comparing MPG-which is why the CUMMINS and its little Italian cousin-are so impressive

MAXX-It -the 300cc 2 stroke-made just 14 hp-so climbing mountains-well it would be "leisurely"

2 strokes -1958 or so-weren't the 2 strokes- with big power like those Kawasaki triples- until the mid 1960's(mass produced)

I seem to remember some very cheap SEARS-Japanese 2 stroke motorcycles-early 1960s-which were very cheap-but still not as powerful-per cc-as the comparable(but much more expensive-4 strokes
Bridgestone might have been the name-odd name for a japanese motorcycle-but "USA-E-IN" sounding so..

Rockrohar-the Berkley was a good effort-but it couldn't be expected to match a Prius
it is unfair of us to compare them
Compared to "regular cars" 1958-it got perhaps 3x the MPG
but it was strictly a city car-and no top??
Guess the japanese 2 strokes-tiny-would be better-more practical family cars
The Berkley was more a sporting toy-2 seats and no obvious top-no heater? rain snow(good on the W coast)

We are holding you to a high standard
On the bright side-your posts are longer and swing even wider than mine

and are about as conspiracy laden (no tongue in cheek)
Now in my conspiracies-the motives are always simple-GREED JEALOUSLY
No one world GOV stuff -strictly greed money = power why bother with ONE WORLD GOV

The camel needle gate no heaven "root of all evil" "love of money" stuff
Yeah GREED and the jealousy of the have nots for the GREEDY haves
And no I don't buy the reinterpretation of camel gate that the "prosperity christians" push

Oh there was never a FREE MARKET for important commodities( sugar cotton tobacco precious metals iron products raw iron other textiles dyes alcohol) on these shores-almost immediately we had slaves indentured servants and manipulated markets taxes tariffs
Important commodities NEVER are free market traded- laughable to think they are

 

Rockrohar
We are being a bit unfair
but we insist on some sort of proof of the numbers
especially the 70 mpg number
AL-ALS-provided some proof-48mpg

Here is the WIKIPEDIA cut-
it was a cool little car-with asn advanced for its day(but 322 cc just 14 hp-not even close to a modern 250 2 stroke single (40 + hp))
But it wasn't cheap-price is roughly $15000 in today's $$
and no explanation of the 70 mpg-MOTOR testing indicated 48mpg but no explanation of how that was arrived at

Now credit where credit due-it might have gotten 70 mpg at 30 mph-
My 1980 Puch 50cc 2 stroke-was an honest 100 mpg moped around town-WOT 250 lbs all up
My 1971 90cc Kawasaki-320 lbs all up- probably got 60 mpg around town-and it would indicate 77mph with me doing a Bonneville imitation-stretched over tank
I think it could have gotten 70 mpg at a steady 45 mph

We are insisting on something it is impossible for you to produce-the 70 mpg testing procedures-the 70 mpg was an advertising claim
A run of the mill Prius will get 55mpg at 60 mph by just setting the CC
Run of the mill prius will get an honest 45-50 mpg in city driving by just driving-normal driver
With very little effort a Prius will get an honest 55 mpg-the effort being just glide a bit when anticipating a stop-no regeneration
With more effort a prius will get 70 mpg city
In expert hands a Prius can get over 80 mpg in actual city driving-and over 100 mpg in actual city driving with a very few experts(not me)
I easily get 55mpg city-by just watching the screen-gliding with no regeneration-no holding up traffic-very little effort-in general averaging 32 mph-in 35 mph zones

We are being a little unfair-but you are making claims that are not backed by facts-facts we can evaluate
Your 605 lbs-you backed-plenty of sources say the same thing-but I still reject it-because I'm skeptical by nature and a weight claims
by people who benefit by a "light weight" are usually -exaggerations
I actually weigh things-bike parts(lotta lies about weight in 1970's) motorcycles-same story-lies wheels
light weight meant better acceleration better cornering better braking
so lying about weight-made sense-weight kills bicycle motorcycle car truck performance so lying in advertising is GOOD- understandable

Oh-I saw the guy lifting his car-impressive-but I would be more impressed if he had put 4 bathroom scales under the wheels
simple enough for 605 lbs car- why not actually weigh it??
Simple answer-it won't weigh 605 LBS -
ruin the 605 lb claim forever-not much point in a collector(always sellers) doing that-on camera -it would lower selling price-ruin the myth

 

Opps-here is the cut ALS referred to-MOTOR numbers at the bottom-it is a cool little car-but it is/was a toy-2 seats no cover(in rainy damp cold Limeyland?? an open car was obviously a toy for the well off with garages)
But it was cool-not comparable to a Prius-but cool-not real transportation-just a 4 wheel motorcycle
15 hp 62mph Geez-slow!
Brits built 2000hp merlins 50 hp 500cc singles and the best they could do was a crummy 15 hp 2 stoke twin?


Funny it brings to mind that "1/2 scale corvette" german-Opel- that came to the USA in the 1960's-1970's maybe- fully enclosed pretty little car -But the Opel was real transportation-it had a top- (slow of course)



Power was provided by a British Anzani twin-cylinder 322 cc two-stroke engine producing 15 bhp (11 kW; 15 PS)[7] and mounted transversely, driving the front wheels via a chain and three-speed gearbox. The engine was already used by various motorcycle manufacturers such as Cotton andGreeves, but in the Berkeley was fitted with a Siba Dynastart to provide both battery charging and electric starting. It was a very advanced two-stroke engine which incorporated a rotary inlet valve mechanism in the centre of the crankshaft.[7] The gearbox was a three-speed Albion HJR5, utilising a steering column-mounted gearchange.[6]

The car had all-round independent suspension by coil springs and in spite of the tiny engine gave remarkably good performance owing to its light weight (kerb weight 605 lb (274 kg)[6]) and excellent roadholding. Girling hydraulic brakes with 7 in (180 mm) drums were used.[6]

The identification plate was a plain stamped alloy rectangle fitted on the engine bay side wall just above the Dynastart and marked SA322 B1 etc. (Sports Anzani 322cc Berkeley Chassis number 1).


Sports (SE328)[edit]
Berkeley Sports SE328

Overview
Production Jan 1957 – Apr 1958
1259 approx produced.[5]
Body and chassis
Body style 2-door roadster
Powertrain
Engine 328cc transverse two stroke twin, air-cooled
Dimensions
Wheelbase 68 in (1,700 mm) [8]
Length 122.5 in (3,110 mm) [8]
Width 50 in (1,300 mm) [8]
Height 43.5 in (1,100 mm) [8]

Berkeley SA328 Excelsior engine
After 163 of the SA322 cars had been manufactured, a change was made to the SE328 model with a 328 ccExcelsior engine offering 18 bhp (13 kW; 18 PS). The production run ran from Jan 1957 to April 1958 with chassis numbers from 164 to 1422, many being exported to theUnited States where it sold for approximately $1600 (equivalent to $13.6 thousand today). The manufacture touted the number 70, meaning it could reach 70 mph and had an average fuel economy of 70 mpg. The export model was differentiated by having separate headlamps whereas on the home market they were faired into the wings, although the export type lamps could be specified.[9]

Early cars from Jan 1957 to about chassis number 476 in June 1957 still used a column gear change. During their production run a Deluxe model was offered which was bodily the same but featured polished wheel trims and spinners, tachometer and twin carburettors. The chassis plate was similar to the Anzani type on the early cars but was later changed to a printed type fitted to the bulkhead above the brake master cylinder. The printed type chassis plate had type ‘SE328’ printed on it. Most of these cars had the three-speed gearbox similar to the Anzani except for the mounting flanges. All of the cars had the sloping leading edges to the doors.

Motor magazine tested a 328 cc Berkeley in 1957 and found it to have a top speed of 62.1 mph (99.9 km/h) and acceleration from 0-50 mph (80 km/h) in 30.6 seconds. A fuel consumption of 58.3 miles per imperial gallon (4.85 L/100 km; 48.5 mpg‑US) was recorded. The test car cost £574 on the home market including taxes of £152[8] (equivalent to £12.5 thousand today).

 

Those tiny Japanese cars-2 strokes- 1100 lbs 10 or so feet long
are more comparable to the Prius
they are enclosed not expensive and got better than average FE for the day(safe bet they were replaced by 4 stroke -slightly more expensive versions)

Now they probably got on a very good day 25mpg city hy-not quite 1/2 the Prius
and they were death traps-even by the standards of the day-Little car= dead occupants when hit by big car

 

Front engine RWD means the weight it mostly forward
Lifting the rear-you are using a 8 -9 foot lever(rear of car to front tire contact)
figure CG is extremely close-maybe just 1-2 feet rear ward- to the front tire contact pivot point-
He isn't lifting much- maybe just 100 lbs of force
CG going up 1.5 inches- lifter raising it 12 inches 1/8 of 800 lbs=100 lbs
Above just educated guesses-but ballpark
Actually put 4 scales under the tires-add them up

We are being a little harsh-it was a cool little car-but it isn't apples to apples with a Prius
Those little Japanese cars are more comparable-and the little Brit cars and Italian cars of that era
The berkeley was a 4 wheeled motorcycle-fun-but a toy in a rainey climate like Limeyland-for affluent folks with garages

The lightened drilled out Chevy you mentioned earlier-more to my taste

And the Hot Rods the moonshiners built-watch Thunder Road when you get a chance
They were high tech
modified by very adept DIY folks- weight power gearing
2 speed rear ends modified Cadillac motors-
Flat head Fords too
-but they weren't in the ball park with GMs OHV killer motors
most probably weren't supercharged-some were-just regular hot rod tricks- gearing power weight brakes suspension tires wheels(lowered too but all that weight…)
Yeah Thunder Road

 

I plugged in
15 hp
800 lbs
into an online 0-60 car calculator
17.9 seconds
I also plugged in 40 hp 2600 lbs for Chevette MT-20.8(same as a motor mag numbers)
The Chevette claimed 60-maybe 50 hp-
at 60 hp it was 15 seconds-ha,ha no way would it do that

In any case this calculator-probably really isn't good in those light weight ranges-and the aero drag is more important with low hp VEHICLES
Anyway the numbers don't support the 605 lbs(800 lbs driver fuel etc) weight
It is slower than it should be
To get ballpark "right" -38 second 0-60 7hp 1100 lbs
Now a 15 hp claimed 1950's 2 stroke-might make just 7 road hp
Geez top speed of 62 mph-pretty slow
Anyway the 605 seems unlikely-perhaps 800-900 dry
Still it was a cool looking little car-not a practical car-no top no heater and it was in LIMEYLAND
But the tested 48 mpg-is impressive for 1956
Real life it might have been 25-30 mpg city/hy-
But the Brit 4 stroke motorcycles(say a 200-250)-would have been much better-2 passengers-faster much cheaper better mpg-
The Honda 50'-90- 125-4 stroke singles) got 'about 80-100 mpg in actual use
Pretty sure the honda 125 was a champion mpg motorcycle for "a while"
well over 100 mpg on some route

But Rockrohar I admit we are being a bit unfair-
comparing a Prius-to any 60 year old car-not fair
Heh-it beat -badly-most current cars

In the old days-people-DIY types-could get very good mpg-
but not with a 2 stroke-(except a tiny one like my Puch-90 lbs-50cc)
Wish I hadn't sold it!!

 

Opel GT
Al Andrew
Yeah they were cool little cars
With a modern 3 cylinder- Ford it would be a lot quicker
It was a cool looking little car(forgotten about the headlights)
Looked like a 1/2 scale Vette
Say-speaking of Fords-which USA car corp "owned Opel" for a while?? GM Ford??