Honda April 2017 Sales Down 7.0% with 138,386 Vehicles sold + 17 Civic Hatch Review

Discussion in 'In the News' started by xcel, May 10, 2017.

  1. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    [​IMG] Honda Canada Sales Up 2.2% With Sales of 18,299 Vehicles

    Honda Canada’s April sales of 18,299 vehicles was up 2.2 percent over the 17,906 sold in April of 2016

    YTD sales of 59,271 were up 10.0 percent over the 53,873 sold during the same period of 2016.

    The Honda Automobile Division had its best April sales since 2008 with 16,608 vehicles sold. Acura on the other hand achieved April sales of 1,691 vehicles, down 23.3 percent comparted to April of 2016.

    April 2017 Honda Canada Sales Highlights

    Honda had its best April with 16,608 sales vs the previous best in 2008 with 16,412 sales.
    Honda CR-V had its best April with 4,657 sales vs the previous best in 2016 with 4,101 sales.
    Honda HR-V had its best April with 1,633 sales vs the previous best in 2016 with 1,135 sales
    Honda Ridgeline had its best April ion history with 471 sales vs the previous best in 2008 of 467 sales.

    Top 6 Canada September 2016 Auto Sales
  2. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    The 30/39 mpgUS city/highway rated 2017 Honda Civic Sport Hatch with the direct injected and turbo charged 1.5L I4 mated to the MT buried its EPA highway ratings just as the Sport Touring with the 1.5T and CVT did just over a week ago.

    The steady state(s) were undertaken just after midnight this morning with temperatures ranging from 62 to 63 degrees F. Winds were calm during the northbound and southbound measured segments.

    2017 Honda Civic Sport Hatch with the MT

    Just minutes before embarking on data collection early this morning.​

    The 39 mpg EPA highway crossover occurred at a calculated 73.04 mph. Considering the Sport MTs trace at 67.5 mph (see below), the 30/39 mpg city/highway Civic Sport Hatch should be rated at 44 mpg highway. 180 hp on tap and a 44 mpg highway rated Hot Hatch? Wow. I continued to use Carcus' three tank .9915* aFCD from his own Civic Sedan with the 1.5T for the calibration because of the capless refueling system in all the 10th gen Civics.

    The indicated speeds of 50 through 70 mph were 1.0 mph over the actual speed at 50 and 55 mph and 1.5 mph over at 60, 65 and 70 mph per the Garmin.

    RPM at 60 mph indicated 2,280 vs. the calculated 2,236.


    The competitive speed vs FE graph with the MT vs. CVT in the Sport and Sport Touring trim hatch is again telling. Both EPA crossovers were calculated at 73.04 for the MT and 73.55 for the CVT. While the 3 mpg EPA highway boost would be more along the lines of 2 mpg for the average consumer, it goes to show how efficient the 1.5-T really is. Remember both Sport Hatch’s are shod with fuel robbing P235/40R18 Conti Pro Contacts which by themselves probably pull the Civic Hatch down 2 mpg on the highway.

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  3. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    And a few final points before the long drive back to LA and getting on a plane to Chicago to pick up an Ioniq Limited.

    2017 Honda Civic Hatch - 1.5T Engine Bay


    Have I added enough superlatives regarding this powerful and efficient engine and drivetrain. The power output buries everything in the segment except for the performance sport cars and they can barely achieve 2/3 the efficiency that the Civic provides each and every day.

    The exterior grabs attention. I have seen numerous double takes and especially from 10th gen Civic owners. While on the edge of modern acceptance and surely the design was steered more by marketing than the aero engineers, it looks hot. Hell, the sedan looks hot. Expect to see competitors add the edges in the near future.

    2017 Honda Civic Hatch - Interior


    Considering last week's Sport Touring and this week's Sport, the interior still needs some work. The molded in stitching across the passenger side dash is on the cheap side, the faux carbon fiber inserts are a bit plasticy, the USB and 12V ports underneath the dash are a PIA to get to, and up front pricing is a bit aggressive. No Audio control knobs and minimal HVAC control knobs on the Sport Touring are a non-starter for that single missing feature imho. The Sport however has the knobs and controls necessary. It is just the 5" display audi looks outdated due to the small size vs. modern day 7 and 8" displays even in the low cost competitors offerings.

    On the pricing front, the Sport Hatch w/ the 1.5T mated to the 6-speed MT at $22,135 incl. the $835 D&H charge is not bad. The Touring at close to $29k however... There are competitors that include even more in some aspects that can be picked up for about 1/2 that retail price.

    Ride and Handling are again Sport Hatch great. Not to harsh but stiff enough to make a corner carver grin.

    2017 Honda Civic Hatch F&R Seating


    Front seat comfort is ok. The entire Civic lineup needs a longer lower seat cushion up front and the hatch is no different. Getting into and out of the rear seat is a bit tough but there is ample headroom. Surprising actually given most competitors cut into rear seat headroom for aero reasons. Rear seat leg/knee room is very tight. My knees were into the front seat backs by almost 2" although there was give in that setback for this exact purpose.

    The Sport Hatch with the MT would be a great addition to my drive if I were 20 years younger but the Civic Sedan with the 1.5T in EX trim would more than likely grab my $s.

    TheFordFamily, Carcus and BillLin like this.
  4. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    The steady states I have posted for my sedan (roughly 14% better than the sport hatch) are with a 5 to 10 mph crosswind, basically the same temperatures, but with E0 87 fuel.

    So I reckon there's nearly a 10% aero penalty resulting from the hatchback profile, wheels and tires -- that's substantial.

    I'm glad I went with the sedan instead of the hatch. The sedan has a little more interior length and a very capable rear seat pass through -- I don't feel like I'm missing any utility. ... and (to my eye) an EX sedan in burgundy night pearl or white orchid pearl wins the beauty contest.

    /I doubt the sport hatch has any "sport performance tune" mpg penalty, as the (stock) sedan has dyno'd at over 200 hp when run on higher octane fuel.
    Last edited: May 22, 2017
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  5. seftonm

    seftonm Veteran Staff Member

    What tires does your sedan have? The tires that come on the Sport hatchback are relatively soft and sticky, pretty much the opposite of a low rolling resistance tire.

    I am a sucker for a good engine and chassis. It doesn't need to be a sports car, but I need something that I enjoy driving. I think I will enjoy this car. Wayne's legroom photo illustrates something that I found when I tried the back seat, it was very low and had no leg support. Only my butt touches the seat. I noticed that in a few cars that I sat in, the swoopy rear roofline may be pushing the rear seats down closer to the floor to ensure adequate headroom.
  6. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    215/50r17 all season tires. Pretty much the opposite of soft and sticky.:)
    Last edited: May 23, 2017
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  7. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    Rear seat passengers are usually not signing their name to buy a car , so they are getting shortchanged. Aerodynamics wins.
    xcel likes this.
  8. PaleMelanesian

    PaleMelanesian Beat the System Staff Member

    In my current situation, rear seat passengers are more likely to complain about difficulty seeing out over the windowsill, than about head or leg room.
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  9. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    And you probably want to keep your rear seat passengers happy , especially on a longer trip , so Mom and Dad can be happy. I do remember carrying my small children around. A lot of it was in the GLC and Civic Si ( 22 yrs total)
  10. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    I am adding another odd data point I discovered on my last drive back to LA. Although temps were between 69 and 80 degrees F, I thought I would test the A/C for a few miles. It took quite a while to bring the cabin down to 70. Like 15+ minutes and there was only the heat load from the sun through the windows. I am not sure this has been disseminated or not but I thought it would be worth mentioning.

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  11. WriConsult

    WriConsult Super Moderator

    All of this vehicle's problems (high price, low-profile high-RR tires, unintuitive touchscreen) are solved by simply getting the LX MT. $20k. That's less money than a Mazda3 hatch, and according to C&D's tests the Civic is faster than the Mazda3 with the optional 2.5, which the Civic (Sport, anyway) out-corners by .05g as well.

    This is the car I've been wanting Honda to make for 20 years. If I were in the market for a new car (which would be irrational right now, given the rapidly expanding glut of used cars), I wouldn't even think of getting something other than the Civic Hatch, based on everything I'm learning about it. It's basically got the same cargo capability as my Elantra Touring did, but with far better mpg and it's a Honda.

    By the way, I looked at the CH in person at our auto show a few weeks ago, and did my usual cargo-floor measurement: 37" long! That's 2 inches longer than a Focus or Mazda hatch, an inch longer than my Elantra Touring, and a full NINE inches longer than a Fit. As in most cars you'll have to take the front wheel off, but it will easily fit any standard bicycle with the seats down. Including my 45"-wheelbase fatbike. Want want want, even though it's not what makes financial sense.
  12. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Dan:

    Not all of the problems. The Civic Sport has the 5" screen with the audio and HVAC control knobs. But ... The 5" screen looks out of date compared to many OEMs 7" base touch screens.

    The seats are only partially solved in the lower LX/EX trims and USB/Power ports under the central dash cannot be fixed.

    On the pricing front, a bare LX trim with the 1.5T mated to the CVT comes in at $21,375 incl. the $875 D&H charge. With a $500 to $1k discount it is still a $20k car+ TTL. Competitors sedans with far more equipment and are even more efficient can be picked up for $5 to $6k less.

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  13. seftonm

    seftonm Veteran Staff Member

    I guess the value of the equipment depends on how the buyer would option out the car. The best value is probably an Elantra, but Elantra with a 7 inch screen and Android Auto is only $1k less than the Civic hatch here with the same size screen with Android Auto plus CarPlay. The Elantra has a heated steering wheel and height adjustable front passenger seat, the Civic does not. But the Elantra is a sedan and the 2.0 really can't compare to the Civic and its wonderful 1.5T. Hard to reach USB ports... I'll plug in my cable once, run it to where I can plug in my device, and leave the cable in the car. It's a 10 second inconvenience to deal with every two years when I change phones.
    Last edited: May 27, 2017
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  14. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

    My thinking is similar to WriConsult's. The Civic hatch LX 6MT is the Civic that matches my needs and wants best. It's an incredible bargain for what you get and it has to be a hatchback for me; that, or a CUV. There's always a fly in the ointment, though. My Honda dealer says that the 6MT is almost impossible to get in the hatchback LX. I surfed around at a number of nearby dealers and he's not BSing me.

    So, I'm still on the fence between Ioniq, Niro, and Civic LX hatchback 6MT, but the gas mileage savings of the hybrids would never overcome their much higher cost compared to this gas-turbo. As I wait for Ioniq and Niro pricing to improve and/or Civic LX hatchback 6MT availability to improve we have the dark horse Elantra GT gas-turbo coming out this summer. Exciting times.
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  15. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk 2010 Prius (CAN Touring) Staff Member

    The angles maybe be "muscular", but the material and fasteners certainly aren't. Personally, I see "pointless and busy", with the integrity of a lego car in any degree of parking lot tap.

    Guess I'm officially a luddite: would love to see a new car come along, with a zero inch screen, just a few well-placed, tactile knobs an' sliders, and a simple radio.
  16. WriConsult

    WriConsult Super Moderator

    Exactly! At least it has normal knobs (and lacks the dippy pushbutton start). I don't care if it looks "out of date" - function trumps form for me, every day of the year.

    Factually correct, but I'm talking about the LX MT, not CVT. The price is $20.5k.

    Competitors' sedans?! We're not talking about sedans! And even if we were, the only C-class sedans I can think of that can be had for $15k are maybe the Sentra and Focus.

    Sedan = FAIL for a lot of us. C'mon, you're a dog owner ... where's your Golden going to ride if you have 4 humans in the car?

    Though there are more C-Class hatches than in the past, it's still a pretty small class. Let's review the competition:
    - Focus: great driver, and cheaper. But still no Civic. And horrific electronics ergonomics, though maybe not worse than the upmarket Civics' 7" screen I'd want to avoid.
    - Mazda3: great car, top of the class before the Civic Hatch came along, but a few hundred more expensive and not superior to the Civic.
    - The Cruze Hatch ($1500 more expensive, though current incentives of $1500 negate that). Probably nice, but no Civic.
    - Toyota iM: As if.
    - Elantra GT: $1700 cheaper OTD and a great car, but much smaller cargo floor than the Civic, and only 24/32mpg.
    - Impreza: OK, $800 cheaper than the Civic and a darned good car.
    - VW Golf: Same price as Civic for the standard Golf, $2k more for the wagon. Unmatched interior and owner loyalty, but it's a VW and you know what that means.

    So with the possible exception of the Subaru it's pretty easily Civic FTW. If I were shopping today it would be pretty much down to the Civic Hatch, Impreza - and of course I'd still have to at least consider the Ioniq despite the higher price.
    Last edited: May 29, 2017
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  17. WriConsult

    WriConsult Super Moderator

    Typical Honda, unfortunately. Last time I seriously new-car shopped that was also true for the Fit. Of the 200+ Fits available on dealer lots around town, there was only one Fit MT available (and I did test-drive it). Still, the dealer was willing to honor the Costco and CR buying service pricing (discount was only a few hundred at this price level, but that's still something).

    As long as LX MT actually exists, and one is available within neighboring states, I would expect a dealer to not only get it for me but honor the modest discount, at least after the expected initial ADM frenzy wears off.
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  18. RedylC94

    RedylC94 Well-Known Member

    Right! Or the chest of drawers, or your and your friend's bikes, preferably without excessive disassembly?
    BillLin likes this.
  19. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Dan:

    Hot Deals

    Again, a very nice and efficient but also expensive hatch with some shortcomings vs a well equipped sedan with very few...

    BillLin likes this.
  20. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    If you're willing to sacrifice the 5% to 10% drop in highway mpg for the hatchback functionality, .. then I can't see anything better than the 1.5t 6mt LX hatchback.

    As far as the electronic "shortcomings" ..... Crutchfield will sell you a nice pioneer 7" screen head unit for about $300 (or with apple car play, then about $400). And a 3' usb extension cord is under 10 bucks.

    /for my 6mt sedan, .. I had to order the car and wait.... and I'm glad I did. Probably the only way Honda is going to increase availability on the these is if they see a significant number of customers willing to place an order.
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