How California is killing the Electric Car

Discussion in 'In the News' started by xcel, Jan 3, 2017.

  1. dr61

    dr61 Well-Known Member

    35 cents/kWh is NOT what electricity costs in California on average. We are a huge state with many utilities.
    Residential electricity rates in California average 15.34¢/kWh, which ranks the state 8th in the nation.
      • The average residential electricity rate of 15.34¢/kWh in CA is 29.12% greater than the national average residential rate of 11.88¢/kWh.
      • The approximate range of residential electricity rates in the U.S. is 8.37¢/kWh to 37.34¢/kWh.
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  2. phoebeisis

    phoebeisis Well-Known Member

    Dave-so 15 cents-not too bad
    so a 1/3 KWHR per mile car 5 cents per mile for fuel
    $2 gas a 40 mpg car same 5 cents-Prius on average probably are 45 mpg cars driven by "normal" people
    Prius vs EV more or less a wash-but the Prius has a lot more range-
    Thanks dave
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  3. alster

    alster Well-Known Member

    If I was building a new house in the sunshine area of the U.S. I would install solar panels with a minimum of 12 KWH maximum out put. It seems like the pay back
    would be a lot quicker if the electric companies keep raising their prices. With a 12 KWH set up and an energy efficient house you would probably have a $0 electric bill and perhaps even get a check from the electric company, even if you have a Volt and another EV plugged in...
  4. ALS

    ALS Super Moderator Staff Member

    Meaning you would want to build a Zero Net house.
  5. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Dave:

    The rates you quote were from 2012 rates. Southern Calif. was < $0.12/kWh back in 2010. Today the prices are much much higher. Up to 4Xs once you are above 384 kWh as linked.

    BillLin likes this.
  6. alster

    alster Well-Known Member

    So thats what its called. I noticed the price of solar panels is going down and their efficiency is going up. Some new panels are 300 Watts per panel max out put.
    Installing solar panels when building a new house should be less than install on an existing house. I would have to believe that a 12 KWH output cost would be $40,000 or less, also tax credits would also help lower the price perhaps to the $20,000 area. I'm sure other members may already have a similar solar panel set up on their home.
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  7. ALS

    ALS Super Moderator Staff Member

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  8. phoebeisis

    phoebeisis Well-Known Member

    So San Diego folks use just 500 KWHRs per month-
    Your summer weather must be "not too bad"
    In any case -your point-that EV power would cost the higher rate-since it would be "extra"
    40 cents-means 13 cents per mile-
    Even with $5 gasoline-a Prius is still less than that
    and some "regular cars" are pretty close-even with gasoline double current price

    EVs won't make $$ and cents sense with price power
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  9. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

    I noticed that the incredible high PG&E rates make PHEV's not cost effective at current gas prices. I also end up at 40ct. for charging (with the incredible low allowance for lowest rate). In WA the rates were pretty much half of CA at all tiers. Ironically on the other hand CA has PHEV rebates.

    PG&E does offer a dedicated EV plan ($12ct/kwh off-peak iirc?) but high cost of installation of 2nd line makes no sense in my case (at least not for PHEV's, maybe for EV's not sure).
    I don't use much electricity so solar panels wouldn't make it more cost effective either (at least no payback for me within a decade).

    That said there are free or cheap chargers you could use (e.g. at work or some public places). And it's still nice to be able to run in silent EV mode.
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2017
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  10. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

    I came across this article:

    Seems most chargers are commercial but I didn't know about PG&E offering $500 for PHEV/EV's:). I never got notified but found the link and applied. That certainly would make up for the costs:). Will take a few weeks to know for sure.

    PS I'm in Northern CA and electricity is just as expensive it seems as rest of CA. I could be wrong but IIRC only 5 years ago it was roughly 30% cheaper.
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  11. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    A much needed update on Southern California (SDG&E) Electricity rates. It's even worse now.


    $0.21/kWh under the 384 kWh threshold and $0.43/kWh above.

    The TOU options are just as onerous.

    Time-of Day

    Noon - 8:00 PM ($0.50/kWh)
    Midnight – 5:00 AM ($0.19/kWh)
    All other hours ($0.24/kWh)

    Do not run your refrigerator during the day/afternoon/evening while on a TOU plan here in Southern Calif. or you will be sorry!

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  12. kbergene

    kbergene Active Member

    While California is killing the electric car, I am in Minnesota and have just discovered what appears to be a fabulous deal for Xcel Energy customers.

    For electric car owners, you can hook up a second meter, and if its used from 9pm to 9am, the rate is just $.03 per kwh.

    Needless to say, this changes the economics of charging at home, and buying a 2nd car (electric) for your bop-around-town needs. At about a penny per mile.

    Wondering if anyone on this board has experience with this program - good or bad.
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  13. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Kbergene:

    I have heard Utah has some ridiculously low $0.04/kWh rates for PHEV/BEVs as well. Find out about the second meter and service cost for it first however. Great sounding deal though!

    BillLin likes this.
  14. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    There has been some changes to Southern California rates the past few months to remove the ridiculous home charging of a BEV. At least some savings... The new and best SDG&E Time of Use (TOU) plan "-5" now just needs a a Level2 charger and sign up.


    BillLin likes this.
  15. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

    Weird enough I got email from SD&E about some PHEV rebate I could apply for but I'm PGE customer and I got a rebate already from them.
    But here in North California it's actually not too bad:

    Tier 1: 0 - 323.20 kWh: @$0.21536
    Tier 2: > 323.20 kWh: @$0.28478

    With current gas prices it's finally cheaper now for me to charge electric:). Even at higher tier it would be for my Sonata PHEV about $2 to charge for 30 miles. And gas is close to $4 for about 45 mile (better mpg with Prius but at least not more expensive).

    If I'd drive something with bigger battery and would plan to stay long time in my home, I'd might look into solar panels. But I don't use enough electricity really to make up for that within a decade probably.
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