October 31, 2021: Well…..I’ve been waiting a long time(in truth since 2006), to get an electric car, I could afford. Well…… I just saw that an auto dealer in Washington state was selling a number of Chevy Bolts for under $27,000. With the dramatically advertised $7500 Federal Tax Credit, I had a chance to get the Bolt under $20,000! AND our state at this present time is allowing an exclusion from state sales tax of the first $20,000 of the purchase price. Well….says I…..to myself. Let’s make some phone calls. The result of the first phone call was that the advertised prices for the Bolts were already taken by a business & really never were available to the public. The result of the 2nd phone call was that the Tax Credit, which I thought we might qualify for maybe $3000, we only qualify for $94. So, 2 fast calls, we don’t qualify in the first place & in the second place, $7500 TAX Credit is actually $94, 80 TIMES less….I mean REALLY LESS!
Trollbait doing his trolling. We pay income tax. But the Tax Credit is complex & arranged to stiff the average working stiff.
Paying income tax is the same as "owing" the government money as far as EV tax incentives go. It isn't the same as owing more money than you have withheld. Talk to a tax consultant or a friend who understands.
If you owe income tax during a year, a tax credit is applied to that liability before withholdings and estimate payments. Ex. a person owes $8000 in income tax in a year. Their withholdings are set up to cover that amount. They buy a qualifying EV. The $7500 credit for the car is applied when they file, and they get a $7500 rebate of what they prepaid through withholdings. The nonrefundable term of the tax credit means its value can't be refunded to the tax filers; you don't get money back from it if your tax liability is less then $7500. Neither can any amount of the credit over the tax owed be rolled over to the next year. Getting the the full $7500 requires a taxable income over $100k. If your tax liability is $94, you only made $13890 as a single filer with just the standard deduction.
What's with the hostility? I don't see Trollbait doing anything but trying to help explain the tax code here with examples versus my vague hand waving. I don't perceive anyone here as being anything but helpful.
<head scratching> I heard incentives applicable at the point of sale are coming. 2024 perhaps? Aren't you just shooting the messenger? There's also a tax credit that's available for used "plug-in" vehicle purchases under $25k (from a dealer?). I have seriously considered the used vehicle approach as well for lower cost of entry. (fine print: nothing I wrote above implies my approval of what I believe is the state of affairs.)
Sad fact is that the tax credits are what they are, and buyers are free to purchase an EV or not. Lamenting the tax credit policy is pointless although it appears to be a compelling pastime for the mentally ill bi-polar crowd. The popular opinion is simple - Those who can't afford an EV should remain silent and watch from the bleachers, while others who have the means to purchase or lease take the field and drive home their new Little Juice Coupe. The Bolt is a fairly good value with or without the tax credit, as long as dealers don't add ten grand worth of fabric protection, vin etching, and nitrogen in the tires.
Hi Litesong: I can bet you paid a lot more than $94 in Federal income taxes last year. It is your total Federal tax that the credit comes off of, not any more or any less. If you paid $7,500 or more in TOTAL Federal income tax last year, you can deduct an approved BEV/PHEV purchase for the amount the Federal Government has preapproved. An example. You paid $9,200 in Federal income taxes last year but your Federal Tax calculation was $9,294. That would normally mean you will receive a $94 refund. If you were to purchase a new BEV with a full $7,500 Fed Tax Credit attached, instead of a $94 refund, you would receive a $7,594 refund. IHTHs? Wayne
It will be possible to get the credit amount at point of sale next year. Though there is still some confusion over whether it will be limited by the buyer's tax liability. The used credit is based on the sale amount; it maxes out at $4000. For more fun, the IRS has ruled that EVs excluded from the tax credit for consumer sales because of the requirements(price limit, where assembled, etc.) can get the commercial use credit for a leasing company..
Always next year. They’ve said “point of purchase credit” before & eliminated it. The Union Shop Credit is gone, too. Just that alone, would have eliminated many foreign auto companies from getting a US Tax Credit……including foreign auto firms building some cars in southern US states. republicans eliminate a lot of things…..except for billionaire bulk pork bonuses.
This isn't a bill being debated, it is a law, and the point of purchase credit is part of that. It goes into effect next year instead of now in order to set the system up for handling it. Not having a system in place for tracking the foreign mineral content of the battery is why that requirement is suspended to at least March. Though the law did cut off foreign assembled cars from a credit as soon as it was signed.
The Orion plant that builds the Bolt is to be retooled to make the Silverado and the GMC clone. The EVs that make more money per unit. A basic LS version of the Equinox EV is what is really needed. And then an electrified new (2024) Trax, with an electric motor in place of the little briefcase-sized 1.2 gas motor - and priced close to the current gas jobs, at $21k-$26k. Not sure they'd make enough per unit to plow through the engineering to get it to market. It appears they definitely are not interested in selling too many units in any body configuration at under $40k.
All of the news stories I could gather quickly, indicate GM will not turn a profit on EVs until 2025. Time to put a good EV (Bolt) to rest and ramp up the platforms that have some hope of positive margins. Improve manufacturing efficiency and volume, like Tesla. I'm starting to sound like a fan boy aren't I? Sorry, litesong. Get a Bolt EV while you can, or you may have to settle for an entry level VW EV or Tesla in a few years. Or maybe the often ignored Leaf. I'll wait and see if GM manages to get its act together and produce a high volume, low cost EV. In the mean time, I'll put some retirement funds toward my next EV. I'm not waiting much longer.
Didn't expect the Bolt to survive, but did expect it to last for the usual five year cycle. The Bolt wasn't just in a low margin segment, it was also using last gen tech. The clean sheet BEV platforms and Ultium suite mean better margins in any BEV than one built on an ICE derived platform. If the target pricing for the Equinox EV holds true, it shouldn't be much more than the Bolt EUV. With Ariya now out, how long does the Leaf have?
i just watched the Ariya climb to 12k feet on the TFLEV youtube channel last night and they alluded to the fate of the Leaf. The video also revealed the fancy version of the Ariya that they're sending to the press fleet stickers at 62k. Sounds like about twice the price of the Leaf. Comments below were all saying a Model Y can be had for far less. Not sure but I think the Leaf is still set up for Chademo fast charging. If they haven't updated that, It's a safe bet that there's a little red laser dot on the Leaf's forehead. Who knows if there is a way to update the older - but still viable - platforms with the newer battery and control tech so they can remain and shore up the "affordable" end of the price scale. Hyundai developed EGMP - "Gimpy", if you will - and yet they still have electrified ICE platforms like the Kona and Kia Soul and Genesis GV70 and G80. Kia's Niro just survived an update of its previous generation platform that gave us the first Ioniq HEV/PHEV/EV trio. From what anyone can guess looking at the numbers - it appears H/K did what Intel did when they needed a low cost processor to compete with AMD. Intel took their Pentium II/III/IV and cut the connection to a couple of pins to reduce bus speed, and christened the new baby "Celeron". Same chip, kneecapped performance, sell at lower price. And make money from economy of scale because you're making the same chips all day every day. New battery and charger tech could migrate into existing platforms, where the tooling and engineering costs were amortized long ago. Only the costs of fitting the new hardware need to be recovered. I haven't yet been able to determine why the Bolt couldn't be used as the basic sheet cake to be slathered with Ultium frosting. Then bait Intel into suing you by naming it "Celeron", unless you prefer to resurrect an old Chevrolet brand name like "Celebrity" and morph it into "Celeronebrity", which people will think reads as "Sobriety" or "Celibacy" - and will keep them staring at the badge on the car for quite a while. Free publicity.
