Next Generation Diesel – Inexpensive, Low Carbon and Bio Feedstock Sourced

Discussion in 'Fuel' started by xcel, Aug 17, 2015.

  1. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    [​IMG] The hope and promise is now a reality.

    [​IMG]Wayne Gerdes – CleanMPG – Aug 16, 2015

    Neste NEXBTL Diesel (left) vs. fossil diesel (right) during a simple burn test.

    What if I were to tell you that a 2015 RAM 1500 RWD EcoDiesel could drive the same distance, refuel at the same location at a lower cost and have a lower CO2 emissions profile (normally 570 g/mile) than your everyday std. Prius (218 g/mile)? Nuts, right? Not anymore.


    Neste is the world's largest producer of renewable fuels. In 2014, the company produced nearly 422 million gallons of renewable fuel from waste and residues.

    The companys production of renewable fuels from waste-based feedstock is resource-efficient and by 2017, 100 percent of its refined fuel will be from waste and residues vs. 98.5 percent today.

    Neste renewable diesel arises from ten different raw materials including animal and fish fats, used cooking oil and various residues generated during vegetable oil refining, such as palm fatty acid distillate (PFAD) and technical corn oil. Additionally, Neste manufactures renewable products from vegetable oils, mainly from crude palm oil.

    With regard to crude palm oil, Neste only uses certified feedstock.

    Neste produces its renewable fuel product portfolio based on its proprietary NEXBTL technology in its refineries located in Finland, the Netherlands, and Singapore. With its annual capacity of 650 million gallons today, the company expects to increase that volume to almost 850 million gallons without any major investments to improve refinery capacity.

    NEXBTL renewable diesel reduces emissions as well as enhances engine performance leading to lower maintenance and service costs. It also has excellent low-temperature properties which result in better vehicle reliability during the colder winter months anywhere in the world.

    Propel Fuels

    The 100 percent NEXBTL renewable diesel was already available to corporate customers. At a widely covered press conference in April of this year, Neste's NEXBTL renewable diesel became available to California consumers - or any consumers - for the very first time. It had been previously available as a mixture with traditional diesel in various blends around the world.

    Propel Refueling Station

    3860 Kearny Mesa Rd. in San Diego, CA.​

    At the launch event, Mary D. Nichols, Chair of the California Air Resources Board (CARB), filled a turbo diesel vehicles tank with the world’s cleanest biofuel, calling it “the radical new product.

    In her speech, she stated the use of Diesel HPR reduces greenhouse gas emissions by 60 to 85 percent, NOx by 10 percent and other impurities by 30 to 40 percent.

    California based Propel Fuels was the company tasked with bringing the most advanced low carbon diesel fuel containing 98.5% NESTE NEXBTL Diesel HPR (High Performance Renewable) to Central California through 18 retail fuel stations. Since that time, an additional 13 stations have been added in Southern California.

    Diesel HPR is a low-carbon renewable fuel that meets ASTM D-975 ultra-low sulfur diesel fuel specifications required by automotive and engine manufacturers. This enables the fuel to be used by any diesel vehicle while improving performance and significantly lowering emissions. NESTE NEXBTL does not contain any traditional biodiesel.

    According to the U.S. DOE Alternative Fuels Data Center, renewable diesel's high combustion quality results in similar or better vehicle performance compared to conventional diesel, while CARB studies show that this new renewable diesel can reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 70 percent compared to petroleum diesel.

    Rob Elam, founder and CEO of Propel Fuels:
    Renewable fuels are necessary in California to meet the state’s ambitious greenhouse gas reduction programs. The program aims for a greenhouse gas emissions reduction of 10 percent by 2020 and 50 percent by 2030.

    Propel Diesel HPR spec sheet and emissions comparison

    Diesel Cost and CO2 Emissions Comparison

    On a CO2 emissions basis, this new fuel has 1/3 of the carbon intensity of std. diesel. Meaning that big bad 2015 RAM 1500 EcoDiesels 570 g/mile on Propel HPR diesel drops to approximately 188 g/mile. Compared to the most fuel efficient hybrid available on regular gasoline at 218 g/mile… Well, you get the picture.

    76 Station in San Diego - Aug. 16, 2015

    $2.599 for Propel Diesel HPR, $2.899 for Diesel and $4.259 for regular unleaded gasoline.​

    On a cost basis, per the EPA and from a particular 76 station in Mira Mesa, Calif. on Aug. 16, 2015, the following would result.

    The RAM travels 1,000 miles at 24 mpg while consuming 41.666 gallons x $2.599 = $108.30
    The Prius travels 1,000 miles at 50 mpg while consuming 20.000 gallons x $4.259 = $85.20

    Having driven both vehicles over extended distances and multiple tanks – 14 RAM 1500 EcoDiesel at 40.2 mpg_over 2,000 miles and 13 Toyota Prius at 65 mpg over 1,000 miles, the numbers work out as follows:

    RAM 1500 EcoDiesel RWD -- 1,000 miles at 40 mpg = 25.0 gallons x $2.599 = $65.00 to travel 1,000 miles
    Toyota Prius Hybrid -- 1,000 miles at 65 mpg = 15.4 gallons x $4.259 = $65.60 to travel 1,000 miles

    This can continue with just about any diesel powered car or truck we have driven over the last few years including the VW Golf Sportwagen TDI, Golf TDI, Jetta TDI, Passat TDI, Audi Q5 TDI Quattro, A6 TDI Quattro, A7 TDI Quattro, A8 TDI Quattro, A3 TDI, RAM 3500 Cummins HD 4WD and a Ford 2500 PowerStroke 4WD plus more.

    All of the above is a California specific example as regular unleaded is far less costly in every other region of the country.

    2016 VW Jetta TDI

    Imagine what it would do for the average Californian while fueled on Propel Diesel HPR?​

    The significance of this new low carbon diesel fuel available in California is quite clear. It places diesels at the forefront of environmental performance besting BEVs without a charge time, cost, deprecation and even fueling cost detriment. Would you want to own an efficient turbo diesel in California today?
  2. ALS

    ALS Super Moderator Staff Member

    Hi Wayne,

    This is why we don't hitch our wagons to one source and we look at as many different outlets of energy as we can. We've seen over the last two or three years the grand saviors of energy became major boondoggles that can't survive with out major injections of Government cash as in subsidies.

    If I lived in CA. and was looking for a new car, with diesel prices that much lower than gasoline, a TDI would be in my top three cars.

    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 17, 2015
  3. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    When setting this story up, this was a draft of sorts while I was parked at that station snapping pics and talking to patrons fueling up on this magic fuel.
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2015
  4. SI_Prius

    SI_Prius Well-Known Member

    Wow, this changes things quite a bit.

    The only question is can they produce enough quantity to make a difference? I doubt there is enough "cooking" oil in the world to replace a meaningful amount of conventional diesel.

    One thing that bothers me in the comparison is gas price, according to this:
    Average regular gasoline price is $3.569, and if one is searching for NESTE, then you may as well search for cheap gasoline.
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2015
  5. priusCpilot

    priusCpilot George

    I would also add that many times here in CA I have seen diesel way higher then gas. I remember putting gas in for $2.XX and diesel was high for a while at $3-4.XX

    So in the end you need both lol.
  6. thunderstruck

    thunderstruck Super Moderator

    The spread depends on where you are. Diesel is 70 cents less per gallon here in Chicago, where in TN it's 12 cents more. (Lowest prices per GasBuddy.) Right now the Chicago spread is similar in LA, where the lowest diesel is 70 cents lower than unleaded.
  7. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Refueling a Turbo Diesel Produces a Lower Carbon Footprint than a BEV

    Hi All:

    [​IMG]NESTE – Maker of NEXBTL low carbon diesel.

    An update on what was posted above given NESTE’s NEXBTL diesel available in California through Propel has lower GHG emissions than a BEV. NESTE has been taking up that call to promote this fact as they should!

    The world needs transportation now and in the future. However, traffic should be handled in a sustainable way. Renewable fuels may provide the answer, since they seem to be an even more environmentally friendly alternative than electric cars. Unfortunately, legislation is slowing down the positive development.

    Society cannot function without moving passengers and cargo. We need to decide how traffic could be made more sustainable and environmentally friendly.

    Lindfors believes that the challenge can be overcome.

    Peter Lindfors added:
    Renewable drop-in fuels play a significant part in reducing traffic emissions, partly because of the long service life of vehicles.
    Modern renewable fuels can be an effective solution to the environmental challenge. Furthermore, they are often the most environmentally friendly solution.

    Up To 50 Percent Fewer Emissions From Renewable Fuel

    Usually, the debate regarding emissions revolves only around emissions produced by vehicles, i.e. tank-to-wheels, which means that the CO2 emissions of an electric car are estimated as zero. However, when we study the entire fuel lifecycle, we get a very different picture.

    A report by the European Commission, the car industry, and the fuel industry was completed last spring. It states that the CO2 emissions of a vehicle that uses biofuel may be even lower than the emissions of an electric car.

    According to the survey, the average CO2 emissions of an electric car are 57 grams/km when the average emissions of electricity production in Europe are taken into account.

    The total emissions of renewable fuel are much lower, 24 grams/km. These emissions originate from fuel production and transportation (well-to-tank). The carbon dioxide that is released when driving ends up back into plants.

    Lindfors notes that the CO2 emissions of an internal combustion engine car that uses renewable fuel are more than 50 percent lower than the emissions of an electric car, when the average emissions of electricity production in Europe is used as a basis for calculation. The difference is more than fourfold when these emissions are compared to the emissions of fossil fuels (106 grams/km).


    Renewable Fuels From Waste

    Neste Oil responds to the future challenges with its new generation of renewable fuels. They are based on the principle of responsibility.

    According to Lindfors, roughly two-thirds of the renewable raw materials used by Neste Oil are waste (animal waste oil, waste oil from the fish processing industry, fatty acid distillates, technical corn oil, etc.).
    Neste Oil is a pioneer also in terms of the quality of renewable fuel. The consistency of Neste Oil's NEXBTL diesel, manufactured using the HVO method, is similar to that of fossil diesel, which means that it can be used in any modern car. Due to its purity, renewable diesel is actually superior to fossil diesel.

    It does not give rise to any of the problems associated with traditional biodiesels (FAME). According to Lindfors, traditional biodiesel is known to have caused blockages in the fuel filters, especially in the winter season.

    Legislation Problems

    There is an obstacle to the use of renewable fuels, however. Lindfors says that the current vehicle legislation and the related taxation legislation are not neutral in terms of the different technologies.

    Alternatively the CO2 emissions when using biofuels should be determined as zero in compliance with the Biofuel Directive principle. This would lead to a neutral attitude towards electric cars and biofuels.

    Lindfors points out, that renewable fuels truly reduce CO2 emissions. In 2013, a greenhouse gas emission reduction equivalent to annual emissions of 1.8 million passenger cars was achieved with NEXBTL renewable diesel.

    Major Development Potential in Vehicles

    The fuel consumption levels of cars have clearly decreased in the past few years. Lindfors believes that the consumption will continue to decrease.
    We need more ways of getting from point A to point B with less emission. In many cases, biofuels are the most environmentally friendly option.


    I can only think of two minor negatives when using this fuel including transport to the U.S. increasing the carbon footprint - only a small local pilot plant away to cure that - and a slight decrease in energy density.

    I cannot wait to refuel a turbo diesel from any OEM in Southern California with it.
  8. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    More on NESTE renewable diesel. You will like it. :)

  9. priusCpilot

    priusCpilot George

    I wonder how many grams Per kilometer My solar system emits if I had any EV?
    xcel and BillLin like this.
  10. BillLin

    BillLin PV solar, geothermal HVAC, hybrids and electrics

    "They" will burden you with the carbon emissions in the manufacture of those PV panels. There is no winning depending people's agenda.
    xcel likes this.
  11. wxman

    wxman Well-Known Member

    A BEV charged exclusively by solar would produce about 47 gram/km life-cycle GHG emissions, including emissions from manufacturing the PV panels, according to the latest version of the GREET model.
    xcel and BillLin like this.
  12. BillLin

    BillLin PV solar, geothermal HVAC, hybrids and electrics

    Thanks wxman.

    I suspect the variables cannot be boiled down to a grams/energy-unit as tempting as that may be...

    [addendum] So you don't think I'm just discounting the theory behind GREET, my thoughts are around lifespan of the panels. Whether the panels last 10 years or 25 or 50 would change the equation.
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2016
    xcel likes this.
  13. priusCpilot

    priusCpilot George

    My panels are designed to go 30 years. I'm guaranteed 80+ percent efficiency by 30 years
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  14. BillLin

    BillLin PV solar, geothermal HVAC, hybrids and electrics

    What I'm trying to say is that a single gram/energy-unit number is like having a single MPG figure for all internal combustion engines. (slight exaggeration of course) Too many variables with PV panel types (chemistry, monocrystalline, polycrystalline, thin film, efficiency rating, etc.) and different installation types (shading, orientation, latitude, monolithic inverter or micro-inverters, etc.).

    Let's hope all energy sources receive the same scrutiny, as I'm sure ANL (Argonne) is attempting to do with their model.
    xcel likes this.
  15. wxman

    wxman Well-Known Member

    You're right, Bill. It's just a generalization of emissions from various fuels and vehicle technologies.

    I'm not sure what the assumed life-span of solar PV panels is in GREET.

    If anyone is interested, the GREET model is available at for download. It's free, just requires registration, and is Xcel based. There are literally hundreds of different fuels/vehicle technology combinations in the model.

    There are some results of selected fuels/technologies graphically available at .
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