Indiana Gov. Mike Pence...

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by xcel, Mar 31, 2015.

  1. booferama

    booferama He who posts articles

    A few things.

    1. Indiana's RFRA extends the religious protection to for-profit businesses, allowing businesses to discriminate just as white businesses refused to serve black patrons until the 1960s.
    2. The burden for demonstrating some sort of religious belief is much lower, making it harder to sue for discrimination.
    3. Yes, those who oppose Indiana's RFRA oppose the treatment of LGBT people in Saudi Arabia and elsewhere. That opposition often goes unmentioned in the media; Indiana's law is newsworthy because a) it extends the boundaries of religious protection and b) has brought business pressure to bear (Wal-Mart and NASCAR have come out against the law).
    4. I have no idea what it means for some LGBT to be radical and some to be non-radical. I'd love an explanation.
    5. The United States has to maintain relationships with other countries, even those with laws and practices we oppose. I don't approve of many of those relationships--how they're created and maintained--but it's changing the subject away from Indiana's law to bring up those relationships.
  2. DaveJ

    DaveJ Well-Known Member

    To me, the radical LGBT are the folks who are attacking the Pizza place in Indiania, like the teacher who tweeted the following. Her tweet read: “Who’s going to Walkerton, IN to burn down #memoriespizza w me?”
  3. booferama

    booferama He who posts articles

    So, in other words, the radical LGBT are the tiny minority who make inappropriate jokes on Twitter. Doesn't sound like a problem.
  4. DaveJ

    DaveJ Well-Known Member

    Not a problem?Until it is aimed at you. How do you find it to be a joke? The pizza place had to shut down, because they were scared of all the "jokes".
    Sounds like hate and bullying to me.
    And yes, I do believe the radical LGBT are a small minority, just like Al Sharpton speaks for a small minority, and ISIS speaks for a small minority.
    But they are doing lots of damage to this world.
  5. bestmapman

    bestmapman Fighting untruth and misinformation

    I have read through the bill as posted earlier. I do not see any provision the allows business to discriminate. Please point this out where it says that.

    Again, I don't see where it is made lower.

    So you are against extending the boundaries of religious protection. Is that right.

    Is it checking the consistency of thought. Sometimes called hypocrisy. Thus a valid question relevant to the subject. Granted, one many may not want to answer.
  6. booferama

    booferama He who posts articles

    Dave, given the actual violence done to the LGBT community in the present day, I have a hard time getting riled up about dumb Twitter threats. (Dumb Twitter threats, by the way, being nearly universal--members of all groups engage in them, with varying frequency.)

    A useful summary of Indiana's RFRA is here. As for whether I oppose extending religious freedom, I only oppose extending religious freedom when those extensions discriminate against others.

    As for the Saudi Arabia comparison, it's still a non sequitur. Do you really think there are people who oppose the Indiana law but support the Saudi treatment of the LGBT community?
  7. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    Bigot - A person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions.

    That is the Indiana Governor and his henchman.

  8. DaveJ

    DaveJ Well-Known Member


    First paragraph, true, but I dislike any threats of violence, from and towards anyone.
    2nd paragraph, great link, and it really makes Indiana's new law sound mild, to me.
    3rd paragraph, I agree and only made the Saudi reference to a quote from a large corporation to try to show their hypocrisy in this matter.

    I almost "never" get in these internet discussions, but Wayne's strong language toward a man who most likely is sincere in his beliefs, just like Wayne is in his, compelled me to answer.

    I appreciate your thoughtful, civil discussion of this topic.

  9. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Dave:

    This mans beliefs are discriminatory and he needed to be called out. He was.

  10. booferama

    booferama He who posts articles

    Dave, right back atcha. Thanks for the thoughtful convo.

  11. DaveJ

    DaveJ Well-Known Member

    I just don't understand your strong feeling towards this man, who I had not really heard of until your post. I listened to him on the Sunday talk shows, and reread a few minutes ago his signing statement. Do I understand the biggest dislike is giving company's the same rights as individuals? My understanding is it does not even apply to disputes between private parties unless government action is involved. So if a business owner does some sort of discrimination to someone else, it does not apply unless the govt. gets involved. Your definition of bigot above kind of made me chuckle to myself. Some would argue that you, in this post, fit this definition.You seem to be "A person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions" when it comes to the Indiana governor and their lawmakers.
  12. bestmapman

    bestmapman Fighting untruth and misinformation

    Wayne you might want to look at your first post again and compare it to your statement.
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2015
  13. booferama

    booferama He who posts articles

    I can't speak for Wayne, but I know a lot of anger at Pence--anger I share--is that he signed the bill in front of people who talked about using the law specifically for discriminating against LGBT people, then went on talk shows and pretended he had no idea that the law could be used for that.

    And it's not like this is out of the ordinary for Pence, either. I posted a link earlier in this thread that includes an essay from his website about how smoking isn't really bad for your health.
  14. DaveJ

    DaveJ Well-Known Member

    I just went to the link on smoking from 15 years ago.Not trying to defend him, but the gist I get is he is against big government setting up 17 new federal agency's with tobacco money. He said if you smoke to quit. He was afraid they would be going after fatty food next. Didn't a mayor from NY try something like that with soda last year?
    And he did put some folks I would not want to associate myself with at the signing. That was not wise.
    I saw on the news tonight that both Indiana and Arkansas have amended their laws. Did they fix them or do some still have problems with them?
  15. bestmapman

    bestmapman Fighting untruth and misinformation

    Do you have the quotes. I would be interested in reading them.

    I am not defending him either, but how do you know he was pretending. Where is your proof. C'mon Boof, you are the one who usually requires people to back up there claims.
  16. bestmapman

    bestmapman Fighting untruth and misinformation

    It will be interesting to see if Indiana changes the law, and if that will satisfy people.
  17. DaveJ

    DaveJ Well-Known Member

    They did.

    INDIANAPOLIS (AP) — Indiana Gov. Mike Pence has approved changes to new law that sparked boycotts of the state amid fears that it would allow discrimination against lesbians and gays.

    Pence had asked lawmakers to clarify language in the religious objections law earlier this week as businesses canceled conventions and governments banned travel to the state. The House and Senate approved the changes Thursday after intense negotiations with business and community leaders, and Pence signed it late in the day.

    The revised legislation prohibits providers from using the law as a legal defense for refusing to provide services, goods, facilities or accommodations. It also bars discrimination based on factors that include race, religion, disability, sexual orientation, gender identity or United States military service.

    The law will take effect July 1.
  18. booferama

    booferama He who posts articles

    The pic Wayne posted on page two of this thread gives you the info. I didn't see a need to duplicate what he'd already pointed out. As for whether Pence is pretending, the only other option is that he's completely oblivious.
  19. worthywads

    worthywads Don't Feel Like Satan, I am to AAA

    And you are the one that never has to back up your claims because it's just what you feel.

    Global warming, yeah you think that is good, no need to back it up.

    Global warming hurts other species, you haven't given that a thought, but wouldn't want any animals to be affected.

    Bill is racist, you haven't read it, but someone else has to prove it is.

    You play stupid poorly.

  20. worthywads

    worthywads Don't Feel Like Satan, I am to AAA

    No I can't prove it with quotes, but those that wrote the bill are certainly pissed that they got caught, and are pissed that the bill isn't going to accomplish their bigoted intent.

    That's what I feel, and it's what a lot of companies that spend a lot of money making jobs in Indiana felt too. Money talks, and bigots caved.

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