Indiana Gov. Mike Pence...

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by xcel, Mar 31, 2015.

  1. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    While old news, this pisses me off.

    Indiana Gov. Mike Pence's Religious Freedom Restoration Act, which was signed into law earlier this month, allows individuals and/or companies to cite religious freedom if sued for discrimination, thus, potentially legalizing discrimination against just about anybody in the Hoosier State.

    I saw the Governor try and spin his new law into something far less benign on the TV yesterday. Mike Pence, you are a racist bigoted prick as is most of your states elected officials.

    That is all.

  2. DaveJ

    DaveJ Well-Known Member

    Do you feel the same way about the other 19 states and the Federal Govt. that have similar laws?
  3. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Dave:

    I do not support Indiana's idea of discriminatory choice and I hope you do not either.

    Arkansas is next on my list.

  4. ALS

    ALS Super Moderator Staff Member

    Hi Wayne,

    Twenty other states have similar laws on their books. This originally came about back when Bill Clinton was in office and the Democrat run Congress passed a similar bill. Do you remember why they needed to pass it? It was so American Indians were not discriminated against due to their religious beliefs. Such as smoking peyote during religious ceremonies and wearing their hair long. Yes they were being arrested for having peyote at a religious gatherings and discriminated against in jobs and schools because of wearing their hair long.

    The best reason I heard today for the need for this bill was that it is just as easily someone could walk into a Gay owned bakery and order a cake with a message celebrating the death of LGBT individuals. If the bakery refused due to the violent nature of the message they could be sued for discrimination because of their beliefs.

    Or someone demanding that a Muslim owned store must carry pork products and liquor even though it goes against the teaching of the Koran.

    Tolerance is two edged sword and as the saying goes be careful of what you wish for you might just get what you want.

    All I can say if you are so stupid and bull headed to turn away business then you deserve to go under you won't need an uproar by a bunch of intolerant liberals to help you along.

    If you're a baker and you don't want to do business with me because of your religious beliefs fine, I'll find another bakery to spend my money at.

    It is 2015 people need to get over it, there are more important things in life to get your panties in a wad over.

    Bill Clinton’s remarks at the signing of the Religious Freedom Restoration Act on the White House South Lawn on Nov. 16, 1993:


    Last edited: Mar 31, 2015
  5. DaveJ

    DaveJ Well-Known Member

    I do not support discrimination of any kind. Both ways. I find it ironic that some(Apples chief) blasts Indiana yet does business with country's that execute gay folks.
    And that so called war on women. Give me a break!!!!
  6. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Dave and Al:

    This is today.

    Pence and other supporters say the law is no different from the religious rights protections on the books in 19 other states, as well as the federal Religious Freedom Restoration Act, which was enacted by President Bill Clinton in 1993.

    However, critics point out a key difference between those laws and Indiana's:

    "Potentially legalizing discrimination against just about anybody". The wording in this thing goes far beyond LGBT and Indiana is the first stupid state to enact this just last week.

  7. DaveJ

    DaveJ Well-Known Member

    Hi Wayne,
    So if this was just granting individuals the right, you would be Ok with it?
    Would the Governor still be a "racist bigoted prick"?
  8. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Dave:

    When it comes to "this" law, it is racist, bigoted and backwards.

    We went through this over our history and we do not need a repeat.

  9. DaveJ

    DaveJ Well-Known Member

    How is it racist, bigoted and backwards?

    It is only 3 pages long. I've read it. Can't find the problem.

    It only kicks in if someone is sued, and then they could use religion as a defense. But they would have to prove it.I've been reading many things from left and right leaning writers and can't find where it is much different than the feds law and between 19 and 30 states, according to who you read(some states have similar laws in their constitution)
  10. ILAveo

    ILAveo Well-Known Member

    That's really the important part. It's helpful to think of it as a Sharia protection act. Apparently in Indiana I am entitled to mistreat others in multifaceted manners so long as it is an exercise of some religious perversity. It doesn't help that Indiana's other laws aren't as strong as most other states' in protecting civil liberties.
  11. MaxxMPG

    MaxxMPG Hasta Lavista AAA-Vee Von't Be Bach

    That's the way I feel.

    If Mike Pence was elected by the majority of people in Indiana, it is up to them to recall him, as Californians did with Gray Davis, if they do not agree with the laws he is signing. I don't live in Indiana, so it is none of my business.

    I work in a business where there are more than a few gay clients. Everyone gets the same level of sales and service excellence. I suspect that would be true whether the law required it or not. Nobody within the business seems to have any issue dealing with clients regardless of their orientation, and that is true in every place I ever worked.

    I am a person of faith, and perhaps I am in the minority in that group, but if you want to pay me a lot of money to photograph your event, I will do it as long as there is nothing too far from what most people would expect. In that capacity, I am a spectator and not a participant, and that doesn't seem to be a problem. I would have a much bigger problem photographing a wedding that is taking place in free fall when two avid skydivers want to exchange vows 10000 feet above the ground. I'm not fond of heights, and I don't trust flimsy nylon strings to stop me from slamming into the ground, so here's hoping I don't get sued for politely refusing that job.

    The law's passage is between the people of Indiana and their governor. The hopheaded Billie Ray Junior has no business commenting unless she lives there and pays taxes there. The next election for governor will tell if the majority of Indiana citizens agree with the legislation or not.
  12. bestmapman

    bestmapman Fighting untruth and misinformation


    I've heard of fighting fire with fire,

    but this is the first time I have heard you try to fight hate with more hate.
  13. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Bestmapman:

    Calling someone a racist bigoted prick is hate? Gov. Mike Pence would not answer at least six yes-or-no questions about whether the measure legalizes discrimination against gays and lesbians. 6 times on TV? So he is discriminating against the LGBT community. I do not want to see him not served just as I would not like to see you or anyone else not served because of some business that decides to discriminate against anyone. If he cannot answer the simple question, then he's got bias' and that is NOT what America stands for.

    Here it is for your enjoyment...


    It is one thing to defend Religious freedom, it is an entirely different issue when it becomes discriminatory. This is not hate, it is pointing out stupidity.


    With this "new law" in place, I am going to avoid giving Indiana any of my $s. Everyone else can do whatever they want.

    Last edited: Apr 1, 2015
  14. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    Perhaps Pence really does represent your average Hoosier. In that case , he's doing a bang-up job. However , since I don't live there , I don't know OR care.
  15. booferama

    booferama He who posts articles

    The two key things that distinguish Indiana's (and now Arkansas') RFRA are 1) that is expands religious protections to for-profit corporations and 2) that it lowers the burden for claims of religious protection. The language is innocuous, but the effect is discrimination. Mike Pence can claim all he wants that he's expanding religious protection, but the explicit statements of the people most in favor the bill, combined with Pence featuring those people when he signed the bill, makes the purpose clear: discrimination against LGBT people.

    Of course, Mike Pence has bumbled his way through the whole process, mainly because he's not very smart. This is what happens when the majority of eligible voters don't vote.
  16. ALS

    ALS Super Moderator Staff Member

  17. booferama

    booferama He who posts articles

    Also, sexual orientation is biologically determined (that's the consensus among scientists), while religion is a choice. The Indiana law essentially says that choices are more important than biological facts.

    Edited to update: Both NASCAR and Wal-Mart have come out against the Indiana and Arkansas versions of the law. When you've lost NASCAR and Wal-Mart. . .
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2015
  18. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    FCA US Statement Regarding Indiana's Religious Freedom Restoration Act

    FCA US LLC this morning issued a statement that it has a zero tolerance policy for discrimination of any kind. We are committed to diversity and inclusion, and as such, oppose any law that can result in discrimination. Our commitment and policy extends to our employees and business partners.

  19. DaveJ

    DaveJ Well-Known Member

    Is their parent company a business partner? They have Fiat and Dodge dealerships in Saudi Arabia. How many women drive out of a dealership with their new car there?
    Or Gays? They don't allow them there , do they?
  20. ALS

    ALS Super Moderator Staff Member

    Sure they have gays, when the Government finds them they get throw off tall buildings in Super Hero costumes or hanged.

    Never a peep out of the liberal press on that one.

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