Honda and Toyota FCV World Debuts with Headwinds

Discussion in 'FCV or Fuel Cell Vehicle' started by xcel, Nov 18, 2014.

  1. BillLin

    BillLin PV solar, geothermal HVAC, hybrids and electrics

    "so say we all..."
    xcel and EdwinTheMagnificent like this.
  2. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    A Preview as the 2021 Toyota Mirai Hits the Streets of California…

    [​IMG] The 2021 Toyota Mirai is not the Mirai of old as it adds size, performance, refinement, and an interior a luxury car owner would love to own and drive.

    Wayne Gerdes – CleanMPG – Dec. 16, 2020

    2021 Toyota Mirai


    The 2021 Toyota Mirai is now a truly premium FCEV with an all-new large car footprint, the latest safety and propulsion technology, a much more engaging driving experience, and a significantly longer range rating.

    The 2021 Mirai is built on the rear-wheel drive GA-L platform that also underpins the Lexus LS. The body is lower, longer, and wider than its predecessor and dare I say, far less ungainly. The all-new design replaces the first gen Mirai that can only be described as an ugly beast in no uncertain terms.

    The RWD layout and independent suspension front AND REAR will now deliver a luxury sedan ride with vastly improved handling and a far more comfortable ride. The RWD layout not only allowed an almost 50/50 weight distribution, Toyota was able to increase onboard H2 storage volume to boost EPA-estimated range to 402 miles (Mirai XLE grade), a 30 percent increase over the first-generation Mirai!

    The new Mirai’s design is also more practical with a five-seat cabin versus the four-seat layout in the first-gen.

    The all-new Mirai also features Toyota Safety Sense 2.5+, the latest generation of Toyota’s driver-assist technology suite including Full Speed Dynamic Radar Cruise Control, auto emergency braking, and Lane Keep Assist. In addition, Blind Spot Monitor with Rear Cross Traffic Alert standard.

    The 2021 Mirai will be offered in five exterior colors: Black, Oxygen White, Supersonic Red, Hydro Blue, and Heavy Metal. Hydro Blue, exclusive to the Limited grade, is created with primer, silver base, clear, blue clear, and final clear layers.

    The 2021 Mirai introduces a new lighting signature for a Toyota sedan, with long, narrow headlamps that sweep rearward into the fenders. Both grades are equipped with auto-leveling bi-beam LED headlights, multi-LED front and rear turn signal indicators, Daytime Running Lights (DRL), and clearance lights. The LED side marker lamps are etched with the Mirai logo.

    Out back, a thin LED taillamp light pipe spans the car’s width, tapered in the center, and creates a unique nighttime signature with three distinct gradation lines. Color-keyed heated power-folding outside mirrors feature turn signal indicators, defrosters, blind spot warning, and puddle lights.

    While Toyota highlighted the all-new Mirai ‘s Aero of 0.29 with passive front wheel air curtains, a full flat undercover, and aero stabilizing fins at the front edge of the side windows and windshield wipers that retract to a lower position when not in use, I found the drag number to be rather disappointing given just about everything else available today.

    The XLE rides on standard 19” 5-twin-spoke aerodynamic alloys while the Limited receives black machined-finished alloys or optional energy robbing 20-inch Super Chrome alloys.

    The Mirai’s interior layout looks luxurious with Toyota’s SofTex leather like textured surfaces and a dash that appears as a single form across its entire length as it flows into the door panels. The console armrest is a significant 3.7 in. wider and 2.3 in. longer than in the first Gen as well.

    A punched-metal panel resembling a speaker grille runs atop the dash and rear package shelf.

    Two rows of switches, one below the center display and another within the dash trim below that, are zoned by function. Three-dimensional movement of the wheel switches produce a luxury feel as well.

    2021 Toyota Mirai Interior

    Very Avalon like…​

    The all-new Mirai incorporates an infrared reflective layer on the roof-facing surface to help reduce heat buildup inside the cabin resulting in reduced electrical load on the AC system. A layer of Thinsulate above the headliner helps to block heat as well as provide additional sound damping. The side windows are UV-Protected and water-repellent like that found on the Prius Prime and Lexus ES.

    The Mirai XLE trim features SoftTex upholstery and heated, power-adjustable front seats (8-way for driver, 4-way for passenger). The Limited steps up to perforated SoftTex-trimmed heated and ventilated front and rear seats, including an 8-way power front passenger seat.

    The Limited interior is available in a dramatic 2-tone color scheme: white and brown or black. LED ambient lighting includes eight driver-selectable colors and blue footwell illumination. A standard digital rear-view mirror with a HomeLink transmitter in the Limited can be switched from conventional to digital modes. The latter relays an expansive camera view from behind the vehicle and can also brighten the nighttime image.

    For rear seat passengers in the Limited, digital touch switches on the rear of the center console operate the audio and climate controls and the panorama roof’s power sunshade. The Limited features manual sunshades for the side windows and a power shade for the rear window. A simple YES!!! tells you all you need to know about my thoughts on these added luxury features!!!

    Dual Digital Displays

    The Mirai XLE and Limited both employ an 8” LCD digital gauge cluster and a 12.3” central mounted display. Within the 8” cluster, a 4.2-in. multi-information display includes an ECO drive indicator that helps the driver to maximize efficiency, H2 fuel level, and remaining range.

    The 12.3” display provides easy access for the driver or front passenger, and the multimedia, climate control, and navigation content can be toggled from left and right. Both model grades come standard with Toyota’s poorly coded Dynamic Navigation three-year free trial and Premium Audio playing through 14 JBL speakers, including subwoofer. The system features the latest in-demand connectivity tech, including Bluetooth wireless technology, Android Auto, Apple CarPlay, Amazon Alexa compatibility and SiriusXM with 3-month All Access trial.

    The 12.3” display also relays imagery from the Bird’s Eye View Camera with Perimeter Scan, Overhead 360-Degree View in drive and reverse, and Curb View (standard on Limited and available for XLE).

    2021 Toyota Mirai Chassis

    To make the 2nd gen Mirai the flagship that it is, the Lexus GS platform and RWD configuration plus new FC system and EV powertrain placement provides a near 50:50 weight distribution.

    The high-strength platform is exceptionally smooth and quiet. Laser screw welding and adhesive structure bonding are among the construction techniques used to give the Mirai a truly premium feel on the road.

    A completely new multilink suspension replaces strut-type front suspension and truly outdated beam axle used in the first-gen Mirai. Suspension geometry and stiffness provide highly responsive, direct-feeling steering. The result is a much higher level of handling precision, giving the second-gen Mirai a distinctly sporting feel to match its future-looking powertrain.

    Active Cornering Assist engages the stability control to reduce understeer in certain cornering situations. Hill Start Assist Control, standard for both trims, allows safe launches from a stop while heading uphill.

    Electric power steering delivers quick response, with a tight 38.6-ft. turning circle for easy maneuverability. Both the XLE and Limited trims are equipped with 19 x 8-inch alloys and 235/55R19 all-season tires. The Limited in addition offers optional 20 x 8.5-inch turbine-style Super Chrome alloy wheels with 245/45ZR20 tires. <-- Just don’t on those energy sucking 20” monsters.

    2021 Toyota Mirai Drivetrain

    An FCEV driver simply fills the tank with H2 in about five minutes, just as millions of drivers do every day with gas vehicles. The fuel is non-toxic, compressed H2 gas and owners will receive up to $15,000 of complimentary H2 fuel during the first 3-years of ownership.

    An FCEV generates its own electricity onboard from H2 with water as the only emission. The fuel cell itself is composed of an anode, a cathode, and an electrolyte membrane. H2 is passed through the anode, and O2 through the cathode. The H2 molecules are split into electrons and protons. As protons pass through the electrolyte membrane, electrons go through a circuit, generating an electric current. At the cathode, the protons, electrons, and oxygen combine to produce water molecules. There are no other byproducts.

    The excess electricity generated by the Mirai’s fuel cell and by regenerative braking stored in a Li-Ion battery jointly power the rear-mounted AC synchronous electric motor, which drives the rear wheels through a fixed gear ratio.

    The second-gen Mirai features a 650v fuel cell stack is about 20 percent smaller and 50 percent lighter than the previous stack located under the hood. The new, smaller stack, allows the switch to RWD.

    A compact, lightweight power control unit is now integrated with the FC stack case, further reducing overall system size. Relocating the air intake manifold and optimizing the gas channel separator electrodes and seals has resulted in a 12-percent increase in power output over the first-gen stack (128kw, up from 114kw). That translates to 182 hp and 221 lb-ft. of torque vs. 151 hp and 247 lb-ft for the first-gen Mirai.

    In the 2021 Mirai, the lithium-ion battery is smaller and lighter (98.3 lb. vs. 103.4 lb.) and has higher capacity than the NiMH battery used in the first-gen model (310.8v and 4.0 Ah, compared to 244.8v and 6.5 Ah in the earlier car). The more compact battery package fits between the rear seat and trunk, and the trunk can carry 2-3 golf bags. Cooling air for the battery is pulled from the cabin.

    Refueling is as simple as couple, lock, start, uncouple, and drive away just 5-minutes later.​

    Compressed H2 is stored in three 10,000-psi carbon-fiber-reinforced high-pressure tanks: one mounted longitudinally in the center of the car; another mounted transversely under the rear seat, and a third below the battery. The three tanks together hold about 11 pounds of hydrogen.

    An electric air compressor pressurizes the intake air, and a water-cooled intercooler reduces the temperature of the compressed air before it enters the FC stack. A water-cooled oil cooler integrated with the air compressor helps to provide reliability.

    The intake system is designed to mitigate noise, which will be virtually unnoticeable to occupants. The inlet design and sound-absorbing material in the air cleaner prevent air column resonance. By necessity, the intake air for the fuel cell must be purified; the electret air cleaner element captures ultra-fine particles (PM 2.5), and a charcoal filter removes chemical substances. The resulting air released from the system is cleaner than the intake air.

    Behind the wheel of the 2021 Toyota Mirai

    Driving the Toyota Mirai is like driving a Toyota Hybrid. Get in, buckle up, push the Start button, and the Mirai is ready to pull away. Initially offered only in California, it is perfectly capable of cold weather operation as the FC system can start at an outside temperature as low as -22°F.

    Normal initial acceleration uses battery energy. After initial acceleration, it smoothly transitions to FC+EV operation, and then fully to FC power to the EV drivetrain when cruising.

    The FC also sends electricity to be stored in the battery, and the battery is also charged by the motor-generator during deceleration. Direct current from the battery is converted into three-phase alternating current for the FC air compressor and the electric drive motor.

    Like the Toyota hybrids, the Mirai offers Drive Mode Select including ECO, NORMAL and SPORT modes.

    2021 Toyota Mirai Safety

    Standard Toyota Safety Sense 2.5+ helps the 2021 Mirai driver avoid collisions or mitigate their impact in a worst-case scenario. TSS 2.5+ is the next phase in Toyota’s evolution of active safety systems.

    The Pre-Collision System with Pedestrian Detection (PCS w/PD) helps detect not only the vehicle ahead but also a preceding bicyclist in daytime and even a preceding pedestrian in low-light conditions. TSS 2.5+ also enhances the PCS w/PD system with intersection support. At intersections, the system may detect an oncoming vehicle or pedestrian when performing a left-hand turn and may provide audio/visual alerts and automatic braking in certain conditions. Additional PCS functions include emergency steering assist, which is designed to stabilize the driver’s emergency steering maneuvers within their lane while avoiding a preceding pedestrian, bicyclist or vehicle.

    Each Mirai comes equipped with Full-Speed Dynamic Radar Cruise Control (DRCC), which can activate the feature above 30 mph, have a system designed to perform vehicle-to-vehicle distance controls down to 0 mph and resume from a stop. DRCC also includes a new feature that allows for smoother overtaking of slower vehicles. If traveling behind a vehicle traveling slower than the preset speed, once the driver engages the turn signal and initiates steering input the system will provide an initial increase in acceleration in preparation for changing lanes; after changing lanes, the vehicle will continue acceleration until it reaches the preset driving speed.

    Lane Departure Alert is designed to help notify the driver via steering wheel vibrations or audible alert if it senses the vehicle is leaving the lane without engaging a turn signal. When DRCC is set and engaged, Lane Tracing Assist (LTA) is designed to assist the driver by providing a slight steering force to help center the vehicle in its lane using visible lane markers or a preceding vehicle.

    Additional TSS 2.5+ features include Automatic High Beams, which detects preceding or oncoming vehicles and automatically switches between high beam and low beam headlights. Road Sign Assist (RSA), which is designed to recognize certain road sign information using a forward-facing camera and display them on the multi-information display (MID). With DRCC engaged and activated, RSA can also adjust speed up to the posted speed limit if driving slower or down to the posted speed limit if driving faster than posted.

    In addition to the TSS 2.5+ system, to help Mirai drivers change lanes with confidence, Blind Spot Monitor is designed to help detect and warn you of vehicles approaching or positioned in the adjacent lanes. Rear Cross Traffic Alert (RCTA) can offer added peace of mind by helping to detect vehicles approaching from either side while backing out and alerting you with a visual and audible warning.

    2021 Mirai XLE and Limited Trims

    The Mirai XLE includes standard SofTex seating surfaces; heated 8-way power driver and 4-way power passenger seats; dual-zone auto climate control with remote; Smart Key with trunk-release, panic button and remote illuminated entry; auto-leveling LED headlamps; LED front interior reading lights; Toyota Premium Multimedia system with navigation and 14 JBL speakers; Qi wireless charger; power tilt/telescoping steering wheel; auto-dimming rearview mirror, and electronic parking brake.

    Connected Services include Safety Connect with 1-year trial; Service Connect with 10-year trial; Remote Connect with 1-year trial; Wi-Fi Connect with up to 2 GB within 3-month trial, and Destination Assist with 1-year trial.

    As an option, the XLE offers the Advanced Technology Package that includes Bird’s Eye View Camera, Front and Rear Parking Assist with Automated Braking, and Front Seat Foot Illumination.

    The Mirai Limited adds ventilated front seats, heated rear seating, three-zone automatic climate control (two-zone in front, one-zone in rear with separate digital control panel), ambient lighting, and a panoramic roof.


    2021 Mirai Pricing

    The 2021 Mirai XLE starts at $49,500, $9,050 less than the starting MSRP of the outgoing 2020 Mirai. An Advanced Technology Package, which includes Bird’s Eye View camera, front and rear Parking Assist with Automated Braking and front seat foot illumination, can be added for $1,410.

    The Limited grade has a starting MSRP of $66,000, with optional 20” Super Chrome Alloys available for an additional $1,120. <-- Again, please do not… Both the XLE and Limited have a Special Color price of $425 for Oxygen White, Heavy Metal, Supersonic Red and Hydro Blue (Limited only).

    The Mirai XLE will have a starting lease price of $499 a month, while the Limited grade lease pricing starts at $549 a month. Special launch incentives will be available when this next-generation Mirai first goes on sale, including special finance rates, retail cash back and launch cash back.

    Each Mirai comes with up to $15,000 of complimentary hydrogen. Extended ToyotaCare, good for three years or 35,000 miles, will come standard with each Mirai. Other owner benefits include roadside assistance for three years (unlimited miles), an eight-year/100,000-mile FCEV warranty on key fuel cell electric vehicle components, a complimentary rental experience for up to 21 days during the first three years of ownership, and much more.

    I would love drive the all-new 2nd gen Mirai but only "if" the H2 refueling infrastructure has advanced significantly beyond what was available just 3 short years ago. For more on my FCEV hesitancy, consider the 10s of H2 FCEV stories I embedded in the Honda and Toyota FCV World Debuts with Headwinds headline link.
    BillLin likes this.
  3. Dorean Clarke

    Dorean Clarke Well-Known Member

    I want this one but my budget is not enough, I need to work harder!
    xcel and BillLin like this.
  4. BillLin

    BillLin PV solar, geothermal HVAC, hybrids and electrics

    This story has me scratching my head.

    How does it make sense for some California H2 supply to come via truck from the Gulf coast?

    Here's additional info on Air Products' California H2 production.

    Some of the H2 is used to produce cleaner burning fossil fuels. I guess that hydrogen production needs an outlet until fuel-cell cars gain traction. Seems wasteful though. I fully support H2 production and storage to support electricity production during low times for wind and solar. Or maybe those future fusion reactors can produce H2 inexpensively to serve as transportation fuel.

    I like the look of the new Mirai though it'll be out of my foreseeable budget. I'm also not against fuel-cell use whether for driving or for my home power needs with the right cost and H2 availability from renewables.
    xcel likes this.
  5. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hyundai’s 20-plus Years of H2 R&D Ready for Prime Time

    Hyundai introduced ‘HTWO’, a new brand to represent the group’s world-leading H2 fuel cell system. Building upon Hyundai’s 20-plus years of experience in H2 fuel cell technology, the brand will present H2 as a positive direction for humanity.

    HTWO stands for ‘H2’, the hydrogen molecule, whilst also representing ‘Hydrogen’ and ‘Humanity’, the two main pillars of Hyundai’s fuel cell business. The launch of the new fuel cell system brand will help facilitate Hyundai’s global fuel cell business and grow the hydrogen ecosystem.

    With HTWO, Hyundai Motor Group is stepping up efforts for the development of a next-generation hydrogen fuel cell system that can be applied to various forms of mobility such as UAM, automobiles, vessels and trains. Not only will the next-generation fuel cell system be available for many different mobility products and services, it will deliver enhanced performance and durability at an affordable price in a lighter architecture with enhanced energy density. With its next generation fuel cell system, the group aims to offer a highly efficient and diversified lineup of hydrogen-powered vehicles.

    2021 Hyundai Nexo FCEV


    The NEXO Blue has an estimated driving range of 380 miles, and the Limited offers up an estimated range of 354 miles. NEXO Blue models are rated at 65/58/61 MPGe city/highway/combined. The Limited is rated slightly lower at 59/54/57 MPGe city/highway/combined.

    The NEXO’s refueling time can be achieved in as little as five minutes, similar to a gasoline fueled SUV. NEXO H2 storage uses three separate H2 tanks in the rear of the vehicle. These are configured to maximize overall interior volume, especially in the rear cargo area, increasing it by 5.8 cubic feet over the Tucson FCEV and allowing for a flatter load floor.

    With 161 hp (120 kW) and 291 lb.-ft. of torque, acceleration and power have also increased.

    Through strategic partnerships with H2, energy and logistics companies around the world, Hyundai has expanded its fuel cell system business, accelerating development of a hydrogen society and laying the foundation for the company’s HTWO brand, with initial focus on major hub regions – Korea, the United States, Europe and China.

    Since marketing the world’s first mass-produced fuel cell electric vehicle ix35 in 2013, the group has been expanding its vehicle offerings powered by its fuel cell system such as Hyundai NEXO SUV, XCIENT Fuel Cell heavy-duty truck and a fuel cell electric bus, as zero-emission mobility solutions. As a steering member of the Hydrogen Council, a global coalition of leading energy, transportation and industry companies with a shared vision and long-term ambition for hydrogen, Hyundai is committed to fostering a clean energy transition.

    All the while, the infrastructure in California after years of planning remains minimal at best. Other states? Non-existent for the most part.

    BillLin likes this.
  6. Trollbait

    Trollbait Well-Known Member

    It doesn't make sense to truck hydrogen from the Gulf, but those steam reformation plants were already built to supply hydrogen to the Gulf Coast refineries. They may also be supplying ammonia factories there.
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  7. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Trollbait:

    I wonder what the Torrance Exxon/Mobil refinery here in Southern California is doing with its spare H2 supply? I know they use it to formulate low Benzene CBG gasoline but I thought they were creating more than they use?

    BillLin likes this.
  8. Trollbait

    Trollbait Well-Known Member

    Couldn't say, but perhaps CARB isn't counting out of state fossil hydrogen for carbon emissions.
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  9. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

    With 400 mile range and refuel time no longer than a tank full of gasoline, suddenly these FCVs start to look appealing. Wasn't there a plan a while back by Toyota (?) to have H2 stations at every dealer? That would sure go a long way to ending the catch 22 of no fuel because low demand and low demand because no fuel. Still, the energy value of H2 has to be competitive with gasoline/dollar and I don't think it's close.
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  10. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Jay:

    400-mile range does place it into the ballpark of an ICE run on gasoline for sure. While the EV world speaks how Range Anxiety is a thing of the past, to me it was never range anxiety but availability anxiety. Is there a 50 kW station to fast charge from? Are there vehicles plugged into it now? Is the cost $0.90/kWh or the equivalent of ~ $12.15/gallon vs a Prius Prime on gasoline? And on and on.

    With H2, are we still seeing $15/kg or $75 to refuel the Gen 2 Mirai's 5 kg of onboard storage for the equivalent of 400-miles of range? The last report I saw on Southern California H2 pricing indicated it costs more than $16.50 per kG. With gasoline at $3/gallon here in San Diego, a Prime can travel 54-miles or 1,485 miles on the same $82.50. A second gen Mirai - albeit an Avalon sized vehicle, at $82.50 for 400-miles is the equivalent of 4.84 miles/$1 or 14.5 mpg on a dollar equivalent basis.

    The Del Mar, CA station is just under 16-miles from my home and is the only public station in all of San Diego County. The station cost $3-million to build including the land, H2 storage tank(s), cryogenic pump, and refueling dispenser. That is a lot of damn money for one refueling dispenser, let alone the energy needed to compress and cool the H2.

    Here is the current status of that station indicating it is fully able to supply 5 kg of 70 Mpa from its 95 kG of onsite high pressure H2 storage inventory. Think about that for a second. There are only 19 high pressure refuelings available at the current time. I called regarding pricing but the lady that answered was an emergency dispatch person and did not know the cost of the fuel?


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  11. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

    Good boots-on-the-ground info, Wayne. Thanks. BEVs and FCVs are still a science experiment AFAIC. And yet so many people say they are "the future". Yes. They are "the future" and always will be. :)
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  12. Trollbait

    Trollbait Well-Known Member

    Considering the efficiency difference between a FCEV and traditional ICE, the goal for hydrogen is to get to twice the price of gasoline.

    Packaging is still a problem for hydrogen. In the 2021 Mirai, the fuel cell and control components are in the engine bay, a hybrid sized battery and one of the tanks are above the rear motor, another tank is running down the middle under the cabin, and last tank is under the trunk floor. They got a fifth seat into the car, but the trunk is still small. It is smaller than the first gen Camry hybrid's of 10.6 cubic feet by a whole cubic foot, while being built of a platform a size up from the current Camry.
    BEVs already work for a goodly portion of the population. Its more mental hold ups than technical ones that hinder adoption now. Batteries are continually improving, and charging infrastructure is expanding.

    Green hydrogen comparable to fossil hydrogen in cost will come; we need it for fertilizer and other products. The problem for hydrogen cars is that much of the cost at the hydrogen station is in the energy in getting it into the car. Transportation of hydrogen is such an issue in terms of cost that shipping it around as ammonia and stripping it off at the station is being looked into.
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  13. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    Hyundai Advances H2 Strategy with New Fuel Cell System Plant in Guangzhou, China

    Hyundai announced that it signed an investment contract with the government of Guangdong Province to establish an offshore fuel cell system production facility in Guangzhou, China. The investment advances the Group’s global hydrogen leadership and supports its push into China’s rapidly developing hydrogen industry.

    2021 Hyundai Nexo FCEV


    Construction is scheduled to begin next month and will be completed by the second half of 2022. The plant will be the Group’s first fuel cell production base outside of Korea, with the initial capacity to produce 6,500 units of fuel cell systems per year. The Group will gradually increase the capacity in line with market demand.

    China’s Rapidly Growing Fuel Cell Industry

    The Guangzhou plant will leverage the Group’s extensive expertise in fuel cell system production to secure a technological leadership position in China’s rapidly developing hydrogen industry. At the new plant, the Group will manufacture the same proven fuel cell systems that are used for Hyundai Motor’s NEXO fuel cell electric SUV. Moreover, the Group will work with Chinese companies to participate in the Guangdong government’s H2-related pilot project and initiatives, which will help Hyundai secure a competitive advantage in China’s hydrogen industry. Global companies from Japan, Germany, the UK and other countries have also been working with the Chinese partners to develop technology related to fuel cell vehicles and to advance the local hydrogen industry.

    In October 2020, the China Society of Automotive Engineers released a technology roadmap, under the guidance of the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology. The roadmap reflects China’s ambition to foster a hydrogen economy, adding that the country aims to have 1 million FCEVs on its roads by 2035 centering on commercial vehicles.

    H2 strategy

    In December 2018, Hyundai announced its own long-term roadmap, ‘Fuel Cell Vision 2030’, to reaffirm its commitment to accelerate the development of a hydrogen society by leveraging its global leadership in fuel cell technologies. As part of this plan, the Group aims to produce 700,000 fuel cells annually to meet demand from various industry sectors.

    The Group has decades of experience in fuel cell system development, having introduced the world’s first mass-produced fuel cell electric vehicle, the ix35, in 2013, followed by the second-generation NEXO, in 2018. The Group also successfully delivered the first seven units of its XCIENT Fuel Cell trucks, the world’s first mass-produced fuel cell electric heavy-duty truck, to customers in Switzerland in late 2020.

    As part of the Group’s effort to foster zero-emission society, Hyundai recently launched HTWO, a new brand to represent its world-leading hydrogen fuel cell system. It has also strengthened its research and development capabilities and partnerships across a multitude of industries to lead development of the hydrogen economy.
    BillLin likes this.
  14. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    Hyundai Hydrogen Mobility and its business partners were recognized earlier this month with the “Watt d’Or 2021,” annual accolade from the Swiss Federal Office of Energy that honors innovative energy champions in Switzerland.

    Hyundai Hydrogen Mobility and its business partners – Hydrospider AG, H2 Energy AG, and Association pro H2 Mobility Switzerland Association – were awarded the prestigious distinction in the “Energy-efficient Mobility” category for their advancements in energizing the nation’s hydrogen-powered commercial mobility sector.

    Hyundai Hydrogen Mobility was established in April 2019 as a joint venture between Hyundai and H2 Energy AG. Its main business activity is renting out emission-free commercial vehicles (Hyundai XCIENT Fuel Cell heavy-duty truck) with the aim of decarbonizing the commercial mobility ecosystems of Switzerland and the broader Europe.

    The partnership has been dubbed the “Hydrogen Champions League” for introducing H2 to freight transport and logistics, as well as creating a new business model encompassing hydrogen-powered trucks, hydrogen refueling stations and hydrogen production and shipping.

    Currently in Switzerland, the coalition has 50 Hyundai XCIENT Fuel Cell trucks – the world’s first fuel cell electric heavy-duty truck – which are in the process of being rented out to commercial customers, and the plan is to have 1,600 XCIENT vehicles in operations by 2025.


    With its emission-free H2 cycle, the private-sector initiative is making a major contribution to Switzerland’s decarbonization efforts in the heavy-goods transport industry; a fuel cell electric heavy-duty truck annually travelling around 50,000 miles achieves yearly savings of 64 to 65 metric tons of CO2. By producing green H2 exclusively from renewable energies including hydro, solar and wind, the coalition has boosted the supply and demand for hydrogen in an emission-free way.

    For Hyundai, the recognition of Watt d’Or 2021 serves as a reminder of its advanced fuel cell technological prowess and its commercial viability. Hyundai Motor, via Hyundai Hydrogen Mobility, has demonstrated that a unique cooperation between different partners can bring about a hydrogen economy much sooner and more productively than previously thought.

    Hyundai has long regarded H2 FCEVs as a vital component of future mobility alongside BEVs. Like diesel and gasoline, hydrogen and battery electric vehicles go side by side in a future of emission-free mobility solutions. One pioneering innovation in recent days comes from the Hyundai Veloster ETCR electric motorsport car, which is powered by a hydrogen generator. This advanced breakthrough, using hydrogen as a storage medium, will pave the way for the environment-conscious, electrified motorsport world.

    Seen more broadly, Hyundai has invested significant energy in nurturing a worldwide hydrogen society as part of its global hydrogen strategy. With the simultaneous increase in refueling capabilities and progress in FC technology, the company plans to produce 700,000 fuel cell systems annually by 2030.

    Hyundai recently added the “H2 Solution” pillar to the company’s “Strategy 2025” roadmap as part of its efforts to further advance its hydrogen fuel cell technology. The company has also introduced “HTWO” – a new brand to represent Hyundai Motor’s world-leading capabilities in next-generation hydrogen fuel cell systems for various mobility solutions such as urban air mobility devices, automobiles, vessels and trains.

    BillLin likes this.
  15. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hydrogen Forward Coalition Formed to Advance Hydrogen in the U.S.

    Initiative will highlight the environmental and economic benefits of accelerated adoption.

    A coalition of 11 companies have partnered to form "Hydrogen Forward", an initiative focused on advancing hydrogen development in the United States. The founding members – Air Liquide, Anglo American, Bloom Energy, CF Industries, Chart Industries, Cummins Inc., Hyundai, Linde, McDermott, Shell and Toyota – are united under a shared belief in the environmental and economic benefits of hydrogen technologies. These companies believe that accelerating investment in hydrogen will help the U.S. deliver on its climate goals while creating a stronger economy with new, good-paying jobs. Notice the both GM and Honda are absent from this latest H2 partnership?

    2021 Hyundai Nexo FCEV

    A carryover from the 2020 MY.​

    The initiative – which represents companies invested in all links of the hydrogen value chain from source to service – is focused on showcasing hydrogen’s unique value proposition among Washington, D.C. policymakers and other stakeholders to decisively accelerate adoption of hydrogen solutions and related infrastructure build-out across the nation.

    Produced domestically with low or no carbon footprint, hydrogen can help decarbonize large segments of the economy, including shipping and transportation, power generation, refining, steelmaking, chemical production, mining, manufacturing and other industries. And with all of its hydrogen made in the U.S., the country will see the full economic benefits of the value chain including job opportunities and revenue generation.

    Members of the Hydrogen Forward coalition are making significant domestic investments and driving specific projects across the nation to bring these technologies to scale. From the manufacturing and sale of hydrogen fuel cell electric vehicles (FCEVs) to supporting the fueling stations that keep FCEVs moving, Hydrogen Forward members are on the leading edge of transportation innovation. Likewise, member company hydrogen storage solutions and partnerships with local utility companies are helping to harness renewable energy and decarbonize the power generation sector.

    However, lack of systemic policy support for hydrogen risks to derail these efforts. While Europe and East Asia have committed to investing hundreds of billions of dollars into hydrogen solutions, the U.S. is the only major market without a national hydrogen strategy. A comprehensive approach is critical because it provides a much-needed framework to enable fast, large-scale adoption.

    Hydrogen Forward and its member companies support policies that accelerate the energy transition, bolster U.S. energy and climate leadership, and establish a clear, comprehensive strategy for hydrogen and related infrastructure development that will allow the U.S. to harness the significant benefits of these technologies.

    As experienced time and time again, it is not just H2 station supply and FCEV vehicle demand, it is H2 AND FCEV costs that stop H2 adoption in its tracks. Limited H2 refueling stations are another impediment to wide scale adoption but $50k+ vehicles and $15/kg+ refueling for 60 to 75-miles of range per kg is an absolute 100 percent non-starter whether the OEMs pay for the ridiculous fuel cost or not!

    H2 Refueling Cost/kg in San Diego


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  16. Trollbait

    Trollbait Well-Known Member

    Anyone know what H70-M is?

    We will need green hydrogen for many things, but not cars. Burning it in cars makes as much sense as burning petroleum in them.
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  17. BillLin

    BillLin PV solar, geothermal HVAC, hybrids and electrics

    I have no clue, and this particular string is tough to find. I did find your PriusChat post, though. :)

    I found one link that mentions membership pricing. That could be a red herring, but as good a possibility as any other without any definite info.
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  18. Trollbait

    Trollbait Well-Known Member

    Unless there is a separate nozzle for it, I don't see why that M valve would a different dispenser.
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  19. WriConsult

    WriConsult Super Moderator

    Yikes, now you have to choose from three different kinds of hydrogen at the pump? Talk about adding more complication to something that's already too complicated.

    Twenty years ago, when fuel cells had recently been demonstrated for the first time, I was excited about the prospect for FCVs. I envisioned a simple little black box that you somehow got hydrogen and put it into, then got water and electricity out. It wasn't that I was excited about hydrogen per se, but I liked the idea of (1) getting rid of messy, complex, polluting internal combustion, and (2) the mechanical simplicity of torquey, no-shifting electric propulsion. With the battery technology of the time (NiMH, which GM's patent then prohibited from being used in large-format applications) serious BEVs still seemed like a pipe dream, and an even longer shot at being produced in volume than FCVs. Well, guess what? Battery technology has now progressed to the point where we have the two things I mentioned above without all the fuss and inefficiency of hydrogen. And while EV charging stations are still relatively sparse, they are vastly more plentiful than H2 pumps.

    To illustrate, my Leaf might be a cheap, simple, outdated short-range EV by today's rapidly evolving standard ... and yet it is leaps and bounds beyond what I would have imagined driving by now, back in the year 2000 when I was excited about fuel cells. Quicker at in-town speeds, smoother-riding AND quieter than any other car I have owned, capable of handling most of my daily errands, and utterly simple and cheap to own and maintain. If I traveled back in time twenty years and showed this to myself, I would have been flabbergasted.

    I don't see how hydrogen will catch up. Sorry H2, you took too long and got left in the dust. I'm with Trollbait: cars aren't a good application.
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  20. Trollbait

    Trollbait Well-Known Member

    The H35 and H70 are because hydrogen proponents have been trying to get FCEVs going before they were ready. The FCX Clarity and other earlier models had lower pressure tanks. I guess there are enough still on the roads to need support.
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