Steady State Speed vs Fuel Economy results

Discussion in 'General' started by seftonm, Mar 22, 2014.

  1. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    2017 Ford F-250 Platinum Crew with the 6.7L Power Stroke Review

    [​IMG] The hottest HD Pickup in the world is put through its paces. Light paces that is.

    Wayne Gerdes – CleanMPG – June 26, 2017

    2017 Ford F-250 Platinum Crew with the 6.7L Power Stroke - $77,925 as driven incl. the $1,195 D&H Charge.

    With the tall ships in San Diego Harbor​

    We have been waiting to get our hands on this monster since last fall! This week's ride is the 2017 Ford F-250 Platinum Crew Cab ($62,110) and arrives equipped with the all-new 2nd gen 440 hp and 925 lb.-ft. of torque CGI block based 6.7L V6 Turbo Diesel ($8,595) w/ an exhaust brake. It is mated to the P275/65/R20" front and rear wheels through a HD 6-speed AT through to an optional locking 3.55 rear end ($390) to drive the 7,264 lbs. pickup. I looked up the replacement cost on those tires from the rack and they cost $1,077 + shipping, mounting, and balancing.

    Other options on the super truck include Ruby Red paint ($395), FX-4 Off-road pkg. with skid plates ($295), Rapid Heat heater ($250), Blockheater ($75), 5th wheel prep ($370), Roof Clearance Lights ($80), Trailer TPMS ($725), Upfitter switches ($165), Spray in Bedliner ($495), Platinum Ultimate Pkg. ($2,785) with power roof, adaptive CC, Lane Keep Alert, and Trailer tow camera.

    All in including the $1,195 D&H Charge, the ruck as driven comes to $77,925. True car is showing only minor discounts of just $2k while dealerships are showing this fully loaded monster at just $3k off from Ford dealerships around the country. Damn!

    The fuel tank is 34-gallons on this short wheelbase (160") truck and with an estimated 20 mpg highway rating (see below), should allow 650+ miles between fill-ups on the super slab.

    With that kind of power and even the more efficient 3.55 rear end, it is still rated to tow 15,000 lbs. and carry 3,350 lbs in the bed. These are huge numbers!!!

    On a passenger and cargo volume basis, the Crew Cab has 131.8/65.4 cu.ft. of pass/cargo volume respectively. That is far larger than any full-sized car and the bed is only topped by the even longer 8' beds vs this 6'-10" one. And about that 48" plywood fitting between the wells? It can as that spec is 50.5" inches.

    The chassis consists of an all-new fully boxed frame constructed of 95 percent high-strength steel. The body, like the F-150, is made of heat treated aluminum alloy and together the frame and body saved 350 lbs, which they invested in heavier steering and chassis components according to Ford's releases.

    2017 Ford F-250 w/ the 6.7L Power Stroke Calibration Drive

    I picked the beast up at an LAX parking garage and immediately headed to a station to top it off.

    The 2017 Ford F-20 HD with the 6.7L Power Stroke

    Ready for her first refueling at a Shell on Aviation and Century in Los Angeles.​

    A perfect week to be in a large Turbo Diesel!

    How about another $0.05/gal discount using my Shell Fuel Rewards card? ;)

    I want you to look at the next picture closely. As I was flying on from Denver, I was thinking that the Super Duty is probably just like the F-150 with its capless refueling system. I will get started with the fill at around 07:30 pm and finish up with the initial top off around 12:30 am. Do you see any capless refueling system on this truck? No. Yahoo!!! Thank god someone pitched that POS system out the window when it comes to the Super Duty. Next up, it appears to have about 7/8 of a tank and I am wondering if it is going to hold an additional 9+ gallons over spec like the F-150 does? The answer is no. Yeah!!! 45-minutes and just under 4-gallons of fuel later, she is topped off!

    Topped off, displays reset, and ready to roll.​

    2017 Ford F-250 w/ the 6.7L Power Stroke First Drive Impressions

    It is the most refined truck in the HD marketplace. While there is the launch roar, it is subdued and with the windows closed, anything above 15 mph and you cannot tell you are in a Super Duty with a monster powerful 6.7L Turbo Diesel. Quieter than the rest of the HD segment imho.

    It is also good-looking truck but lacks the panache of its competitors. Equivalent to the Silverado HD with a better-looking grille and lamps but the Chevrolet’s Power dome hood looks better. Personal preference here but the RAM and its large chrome logo, grille, Power Dome hood, and more conventional profile looks better. Within the Ford Super Duty’s, the Platinum’s chrome grille is a better-looking design than the std. wide horizontal chrome grille on the lesser trims. That swoop down at the front windows – Nissan TITAN copied this too - still looks goofy to me but it does improve the view towards the lower front corners.

    I only mentioned the Titan XD because of the profile similarity’s, attractive chrome grille and wide TITAN chrome band off the tailgate but it just does not have the ponies or efficiency to play with the big boys.

    Getting back to the Super Duty, the first thing I noticed and will sing praises for is the power steps and proximity key. You touch that handle and those steps drop out of the underbody of the truck to help you into and out of the truck. Some have seen me comment on the LD and HD trucks that have arrived without nerfs or steps and they are a SOB to get into and out of. Especially Marian.

    The tailgate is damped when open (sprung) so it feels lighter than it is when closing. Plenty of bed lighting and tie downs also help. I have not used the pull out bumper step to get into the bed yet. Maybe tomorrow but I am kind of crippled up from a fall of an embankment at the Tiguan short lead last week. The LD and HD Silverado steps in the bumper would be a great addition here.

    Driver Ergo? Power Pedals, 10-way heated and power ventilated adjustable seats fit well for a larger person. So much so that I have to reach forward to adjust the excellent power mirrors with both a lower blind spot mirror and upper mirror that are power controlled including telescoping for trailer towing.

    Sunglass holder is large and damped. But … The 7-upfitter Aux switches are in the way and you may find yourself hitting the toggles when pulling out your glasses.

    Steering is better than the previous gen but I have to say the Silverado HDs Electro-Mechanical is far better. One of the few areas that the Silverado is better. I thought the RAM 2500 and 3500 was a bit tighter as well? And Ford worked on removing the slop from their hydraulic steering too!

    Infotainment? The Sony Audio system with HD Radio (incl. 10 speakers and subwoofer) is top notch. I wish it had the Harmon Kardon Clari-Fi from other OEMs high end car systems to clean up XM but it sounds darn good with local FM content under HD.

    And SYNC3? The original SYNC was not bad as you could do some basic Voice stuff and it paired with numerous phones back in the day. That was a while ago. Sync2 with MyFord Touch was a F’ing disaster. No knobs to save $s and things would not work, work randomly, or just work in strange ways. That is gone. Although SYNC3 requires voice input in steps, once you master the input method, it covered my POIs and addresses without a skip. And the screen touch to action is damn fast. Good stuff by Ford now.

    The one misstep is text messages. The system would notify you had an incoming and read it properly but there was no way to send the canned reply like, 1. I am driving now, 2. Will be home soon, 3. Call me … like many other OEM systems offer nowadays.

    Some features have been disabled … This needs a rework for basic canned reply’s.​

    Ride? Best of the Big three. Considering it arrived with a 15,000 lb tow cap and 3,000+ lb cargo cap, you would think it would beat you to death. It doesn’t. In fact, I would rate it better than the RAM 3500 with the air suspension while unloaded. And better than the Silverado and RAM HDs. The non-air equipped system in the RAM places on the bottom in this category. Ford did a good job here.

    Handling? It turns like all the HDs. They don’t. Try and park any of these monster MFers and you will find yourself doing 3, 4 and even 5-point turns.

    Moving around parking lots with curbs and such, the birds eye all-around cameras really helps you from taking the corner off a building or another car/truck.

    The Auto High beams work as expected but the lane keep assist is hit or miss. Radar CC works well on both the accel and decal but not quite as smooth as other car manufacturers systems.

    Enough of the impressions already … :D

    2017 Ford F-250 w/ the 6.7L Power Stroke Calibration Drive Results

    2017 Ford F-250 Super Duty w/ the 6.7L Power Stroke

    Notice the C-Clamp styled LED DRLs? Jury’s still out on this in my book.​

    The C-Clamp edge is a design feature thought-out he interior of the 2017 F-250 as well. It adds a tough character to the truck.

    Traffic was relatively free flowing given the late hour. Just the std. mess getting out of the LAX area to the 405, two slowdowns for an accident and construction and std. congestion down the length of the 405 through Irvine. Another plus for getting into LAX so late.


    The refuel… 91.6 miles at 28.8 mpg indicated. 93.2 miles on 3.381 gallons for a 27.566 mpg actual result. Just 35-minutes to top it off too!!! Thank god for no capless system and a std. near cap fuel tank. YaHoo!!! :D :D :D

    The aFCD offset (28.8 ind/27.566 act) comes in at 0.958*aFCD = mpgUS actual.

    2017 Ford F-250 w/ the 6.7L Power Stroke Steady States

    2017 Ford F-250 with the 6.7L Power Stroke


    The steady state(s) were undertaken between 11:30 AM and 02:30 AM early this morning. Temperatures ranged from 61 to 64 degrees F with calm winds for the northbound and southbound measured segments.


    The HD Pickup's trace is a bit odd in that it has such a steep fall off between 50 and 55 mph. and then an almost linear fall off from 60 to 70 mph. Just a bit odd looking is all.

    The 67.5 mph highway crossover occurred at a calculated 20.4 mpg. If it were under the EPA highway criteria, the F-250 would be rated at a solid 20 mpg.

    The indicated speeds of 50 through 70 mph almost matched the actual mph through the entire range per the Garmin. With a little parallax that is. At all speeds, the speedo was ~ 0.5 to 1 mph over actual while the CC indication matched. During minor ascents, speed would drop by 1 mph so I had to kick up the CC while ascending for a few seconds and drop it down by 1 mph during descents for a few seconds to maintaining the indicated steady state speed.

    RPM at 60 mph indicated 1,480 RPM on the tach vs. the calculated 1,407 RPM.

    I will post the 17 F-250 w/ the 6.7L Power Stroke with the optional tallest 3.55 rear end, Silverado HD with the 6.6L DuraMax and mid-range 3.73 rear end, TITAN XD w/ the 5.0L Cummins and only option 3.92 rear end, and RAM 2500 with the 6.7L Cummins and only option 3.42 rear end Competitive Speed vs FE graph traces tomorrow.

    Although I could not afford to waste the $200 to rent a dual axle trailer to tow it and a 3,000 to 3,500 lb car (5,600 lbs total) to cover the loaded and unloaded steady states like I did with the RAM 2500, I could do a bit of driving with a half cord of dry Eucalyptus in the bed. At 9 percent wet, that load was approximately 2,000 pounds.


    I did not nor could I feel any difference in efficiency or drivability with the load or without. The truck is just too powerful to be bothered with 2,000 pounds of wood in the bed.

    How about some mattresses?


    Laughing about that big load. :D :D :D

    While taking my Grandson to see Cars3 on Sunday, I snapped this profile shot.


    Note to self. The Samsung S8+ is a great phone with a hot camera and took all of the above. It cannot however match up with the Sony a6300 and bevy of prime lenses. The trucks profile is growing on me but not having the Sony to capture its multiple angles better. Damn it anyway!!! :(
  2. phoebeisis

    phoebeisis Well-Known Member

    440 HP 925 FT LB ? Kinda wimpy!
    Wow-sure you have enough power?
    Wayne-what do you use Eucalyptus wood for?? CA too hot to burn it-right?
    Hey once again-no PUPS-
    Of course Pups has made it clear he is a MOPAR/RAM/CUMMINS Pup-with a side of GM

    23 MPG AT 60 MPH-for a MONSTER motored creature like that-amazing!
    I'm pretty sure 18 wheelers- barely made 440 hp in 1990 or so-big Torque of course-but 440 hp-lotta HP
    And our WW2 trucks-ones we and Rooskies used to win the war-
    probably 100 hp-150 hp at best
    Amazing-but 440 hp 925 ft lbs-amazing-lot to be said for TD's-
    can't say the same for Turbo gasoline engines
    xcel likes this.
  3. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Charlie:

    It is hard to believe something of this size and power can easily break 20 mpg at highway speeds nowadays yet there it is. I sure wish I had the $s to have completed a car trailer load steady state trace.

    Wait until you see what comes next.

  4. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    I have been waiting to get my hands on the 2017 Ford Super Duty with the 6.7L Power Stroke to complete the U.S. HD Pickup Truck with Turbo Diesels Competitive Speed vs FE comparison traces for quite some time.


    A few items of note here. All the testing was completed between Midnight and 04:00 AM to reduce traffic side and traffic congestion to allow both the slower and higher speed traces to be completed without interference to the best of my ability.

    The 2016 RAM 2500 Laramie Longhorn 4X4 w/ the 6.7L Cummins I6 and std. 3.42 rear end was tested in the best temps from 65 to 67 degrees F and calm winds. I had over 3,000 miles in it to come up with the aFCD offset at a solid 0.98*aFCD for the actual.

    The 2017 Ford F-250 Platinum 4X4 w/ the 6.7L Power Stroke V8 and optional 3.55 rear end (the lowest available) was tested in temps from 62 to 64 degrees F and calm winds. The calculated aFCD offset came in at a solid 0.958*aFCD for the actual.

    The 2016 Chevrolet Silverado 2500 HD High Country 4X4 w/ the 6.6L Duramax V8 and 3.73 rear end (the lowest available) was tested in temps from 52 to 54 degrees F and 5 to 10 mph winds out of the W for the NB and SB measured runs. The calculated aFCD offset came in at at a solid 1.008*aFCD for the actual.

    The 2016 Nissan Titan XD Platinum Reserve 4X4 w/ the 5.0L Cummins V8 and std. 3.92 rear end (the only one available) was tested in temps from 53 to 55 degrees F and calm winds. The calculated aFCD offset came in at at a solid 0.999*aFCD for the actual.

    What I would like to redo? The Titan XD and Silverado HD in slightly warmer temps as a 10-degree temp drop below 65 degrees can be worth as much as 2.5 percent per 10 degree drop. I would also like to redo the Silverado HD due to the low cross wind as well but this will not be allowed for reasons only known to GM.

    All in, if you are considering a HD Pickup for your work or business, it is hard to say no to the RAM given its vastly superior highway efficiency over its competitors in the 3/4 and 1-Ton segment.

    wxman, BillLin and ALS like this.
  5. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    I had the 2017 Toyota Corolla LE ECO two weeks ago and am finally getting around to posting its Speed vs FE graph. But first, how about some details?

    2017 Toyota Corolla LE Eco

    Daring to take a drive down California’s famous Pismo Beach. :)

    Almost 45-million Corollas have been sold around the world since it was introduced in the fall of 1966. Not only is the Corolla the best-selling nameplate of all time, it is one of the most reliable vehicles ever placed on a roadway. With the latest most advanced safety equipment standard, there are numerous reasons that it continues to sell in the volume that it does including outselling its main rival the Civic, along with the Elantra, Sentra, Cruze, and Focus.


    U.S. YTD sales of 176,527 again show the iconic nameplate ahead of the new highly regarded and award winning Civic by 764 units.

    For 2017, the Corolla received a bit of a refresh with a new front grille and LED headlamps - L, LE and LE Eco arrive with Bi-LED headlamps and SE, XSE and XLE receive complex-LED headlamps - standard.

    Another area where the Corolla bests its rivals is with its standard advanced safety equipment. Like most Toyota’s today, the Corolla is equipped with Safety Sense-P (TSS-P) w/ Pedestrian Detection technology. This includes the Pre-Collision System with Pedestrian Detection; Lane Departure Alert with Steering Assist; Dynamic Radar Cruise Control, and even Automatic High Beams.

    Along with the advanced safety equipment, the chassis and std. passive and active safety equipment provide owners with top scores from both the NHTSA (5-Star Crash test Rating) and the IIHS (Top Safety Pick+ rating).

    All in, this Corolla LE ECO as driven retailed for $20,454 incl. mats, and the $895 D&H charge. With $2k on the hood and another $1.5 to $2k in dealer discounts, expect to pay in the mid to high 16s for one as driven nowadays.

    Our LE ECO did not include the optional Premium pkg. (+$1,570) which adds Entune Audio Plus with Connected Navigation App, 16-in. alloys, LED DRLs, Power moonroof, and chrome beltline trim.

    On the outside, the LE ECO receives a slight aerodynamic boost over other trims with underbody covers and a rear trunk lip spoiler dropping the Cd from 0.29 down to 0.28.

    All well and good. What about its reported roominess over previous gen Corolla’s. From the short lead back in 2014, it was clearly the largest C-segment available with its 97.5 cu. ft. of passenger volume sans moon roof. The diminutive 13.0 cu. ft. of cargo volume (trunk) was about the going volume for that period.


    While the passenger volume specs are decent, the 11th gen Corolla just like all Corolla’s before it has a tall driver problem. Meaning the ergonomics are all out of whack with too short of lower seat cushions, not enough of a telescopic wheel reach, and the seat tracks do not slide back far enough leaving me feeling very cramped. And yet with the short seat track, rear seat passengers have plenty of leg and knee room as shown above.

    Inside the number one selling car in the world. I was not enamored unfortunately.​

    Moving to the drivetrain, the LE ECOs direct injected and 140 hp and 126 lb.-ft. of torque 1.8L I4 stands out above every other Corolla trim with their std. 132 hp and 128 lb-ft. of torque 1.8L offering all due to slightly more advanced valve timing and smarter CVT control.

    A continuously variable valve lift and phasing provide the boost in both efficiency and performance over the rest of the model lineups Variable Valve Timing.

    2017 Toyota Corolla LE ECO Engine Bay


    Toyota’s detuned throttle response is pretty good imho vs. the non-ECO trims far too aggressive throttle tip-in. The ECO like anything with an ECO button provides less power output for a given throttle input request until 50 percent when it moves to the std. mode of operation like any other Corolla when pouring on the coals to the best of its ability. When in that range, the drivetrain still sounds raucous compared to the latest rivals who had two more years to perfect their own C-segment offerings.

    The base LE ECOs lower rolling resistance 15” tires also improve fuel economy by 1 city and 2 mpg highway vs. the larger P205/55R16 tires that are part of the Premium pkg. on this same trim.

    The Continuously Variable Transmission still has a wind up CVT action when pushed but under normal driving scenarios, the discrete stepped shift points provide a std. AT like acceleration feel. Anyone purchasing a Corolla for their daily driver is not going to concern themselves with the CVT action anyways.

    Let’s go for a ride.

    30/40 mpgUS city/highway rated 2017 Toyota Corolla LE ECO

    Refueling at a local Shell in Carlsbad, CA.

    The top off and displays reset.​

    This calibration drive was a bit different as Marian and I were on our way to San Luis Obispo to meet up with my son. While on the road I saw a few brief stints in the mid-60s before heavy A/C use but it was not touching the low to mid-70s like the 17 Civic 1.5T sedan or 17 Elantra ECO sedan can. Those levels are of course for the segment leaders. With the Corolla LE ECO drivetrain being offered in 2014, its time at or near the top of the segment has come and gone.

    As most know, I am a fan of Toyota’s RCC system in the Prius lineup. While the Corolla surely uses the same exact HW, it is not the same. It kicks out at speeds below 25 mph – no stop and restart capability, and it was not quite as smooth as I have experienced in all the Prius trims. Still, to have that equipment in a car that can be picked up for under $17k is pretty darn impressive. Just not as impressive as the Prius family’s setup is all.

    The R&H quotient? Not that impressive either as there was a lot of body roll with little to no road feel and its accident avoidance recovery was not confidence inspiring. Meaning hard one way to avoid and hard the other to recover. It is the second part that will startle you in one of those once in a decade moments when you are already scared enough.

    The discs all around were perfectly fine with ok progressivity.

    My wife had a 45-minute conference call and we were in the mountains so I stopped where we had a good Cell signal and let the car idle for 45-minutes with A/C while she completed her call. Despite the long idle time with A/C running, the calibration drive still showed decent results.

    Final calibration refuel at a Shell in San Luis Obispo just around the corner from the Madonna Inn. Not of Madonna fame.

    48.9 mpg over 295.2 miles indicated. 302.2 mi on 6.262 gal for a respectable 48.3 mpg actual result.​

    With a lengthy calibration drive complete and the offset of 0.987 known, let’s get those steady states knocked out.

    30/40 mpg city/highway rated 2017 Toyota LE ECO

    11:45 pm just moments before hitting the I-5 test segments.​

    The indicated speeds of 50 through 70 mph were short of actual mph through the entire range per the Garmin. At all speeds, the speedo was ~ 1 mph over actual. During minor ascents, speed would drop by 2 mph so I had to kick up the CC while ascending for a few seconds and drop it down by 1 mph during descents for a few seconds to maintaining the indicated steady state speed.

    RPM at 60 mph indicated a very well controlled and excellent 1,600 RPM.

    The Corolla LE ECO provides one of the smoothest curves we have seen in quite some time.​

    The 67.5 mph highway crossover occurred at a calculated 43.8 mpg while its EPA 40 mph highway rating crossed over at an excellent 72.25 mph. Owners will receive a benefit of more than its EPA highway rating by 3 to 4 mpg. I love seeing this. Again, while not quite the Elantra ECO or Civic 1.5T Sedan numbers, it performed better than the Cruze and Focus. I hope to have a Sentra tested for the full C-segment graphs laid out before the year is out.

    2017 Toyota Corolla LE ECO Conclusions

    Is it for me? That answer would be no. While I applaud its bulletproof reliability, std. Safety Sense-P, Crash Test Safety Ratings, LED headlamps, and even its efficiency being beaten only by Honda and Hyundai, the terrible driver ergo, hard plastic interior with fake stitching within the soft touch dash, cheap vent controls, and once again, short sun visors with no extensions drove me crazy!

    All in, the Corolla LE ECO offers decent middle of the segment efficiency, with more raucous acceleration than what most would expect from a new car when pushed. Its engine will probably last far longer than the segment leading turbo-charged units from Hyundai and Honda because it is simple and built from an engine family going back almost two decades.

    Have the shortcomings mentioned above created cause for concern? Apparently not as the monthly and YTD sales results indicate. It is just not my cup of tea despite to this day still owning an 03 with the EXACT SAME ISSUES.

    2017 Toyota Corolla LE ECO

    A respite on the road at the San Luis Obispo Drive-in to see Spider-Man. Both the movie and the car earned a C at best.​

  6. ALS

    ALS Super Moderator Staff Member

    Hi Wayne,

    There are better choices available if you're looking for a exciting car for your daily driver such as the Civic. The thing about the Corolla it's a low cost, low maintenance cost, fuel efficient car. That's why it's still one of Toyota's best selling cars.

    kbergene, xcel and BillLin like this.
  7. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    2017 Hyundai Ioniq Blue Trim Speed vs FE

    Hi All:

    I went out again to try and complete the 2017 Hyundai Ioniq Blue trim steady states three weeks back. I completed the 50 and 55 mph long loops but on the return of the 60 mph loop I ran into yet another vehicle overturned which all but shut down the 5. Damn it, I have 3-overnights and 7-hours into trying to get these and all I have is 50 and 55 mph results to show for it. Damn it to hell!!! I will give it one more try tomorrow night but 7-hours are wasted and I will possibly waste another 3-hours tomorrow night if something gets in the way of data collection on the 5 during the overnight hours.

    I5 Accident this morning


    Regarding what I did get, they look damn good but not enough to complete the non-calibrated graph. The full tank calibration run begins this coming Wednesday.

    Uncalibrated results for both 50 and 55 mph look like this:

    Temps were HOT as in 81 to 89 degrees F and winds were out of the East at about 10 mph while undertaking the NB and SB long segment runs.

    Remember that the Ioniq Blue is setup as close to perfect as one can get a car. Alignment is dead on within spec, she had a fresh oil change just 1,000 miles ago, a full tank of good fuel, and the high temps early this morning are surely providing a little boost to the results. I just do not have an offset from a calibrated drive in it yet to compare.

    2017 Hyundai Ioniq Blue - Incomplete and uncalibrated Steady States:

    85.7 mpg at 50 mph and 76.8 mpg at 55 mph.

    Compare the above with the Prius Prime and Two Eco Prototype.


    Second Half

    Its done other than the aFCD calibration. While yesterdays temps (81 to 89 degrees F) and winds (E at 10 mph) for the 50 and 55 mph NB/SB results are in different conditions than this morning's, at least we have some baselines.

    This mornings 60, 65, and 70 mph long segment runs occurred with temps of 73 to 74 degrees F and winds out of the W at 0 to 5 mph. Unfortunately there was sporadic light to medium rain for the 65 and 70 mph runs on one leg of each segment but there was little I could do about that. It may have skewed the 65 and 70 mph results 1 to 2 mph lower than they would normally have achieved but even the start finish of the rain was at different locations. This is typical of rain along the Southern Calif. coast and I have no way to compensate for it. I was compensating SoC gain or loss with the same offsets I used from the Ioniq Limited and they appear pretty solid. The Blue saw far smaller SoC swings on this long route (+/- 170 ft delta with the same start finish elevation) than the Limited did on the flatter (+/- 100 ft delta with the same start finish elevation) Wisconsin Steady State route I captured the Limited Trims Steady State data from.

    2017 Hyundai Ioniq Blue Trim

    Taken just moments ago after completing the Steady State data collection.


    The above graph is non-calibrated. See below for the final calibrated Speed vs FE graph.

    Each of the 5 speeds were approximately .5 mph short of actual per the Garmin. Meaning you needed to be traveling 50.5, 55.5, 60.5, 65.5, and 70.5 mph per the speedometer to be traveling at 50, 55, 60, 65, and 70 mph actual.

    The 59 mpg EPA Highway crossover occurred at a calculated 68.9 mph indicating the 59 mpg highway rating is solid. It appears at first glance to be anyway. I will repost this with the fully calibrated result when I complete a full tank or multiple tanks beginning this coming Wednesday. Either way, the Ioniq Blue is damn efficient on the highway!!!

    About all for now as I have to get to bed but what the above shows is Hyundai owns the highway when it comes to maximum achievable efficiency from 50 mph on up in the Ioniq Blue trim. I suspect the 55/54 mpg city/hwy rated SEL would achieve very similar results if setup similarly as I did the Blue.

    Final Results

    Using the 50 and 55 mph Steady States and 60, 65, and 70 mph steady states including details posts, plus the 2.9 percent negative aFCD offset discerned through the cross country drive beginning here, the final 2017 Hyundai Ioniq Blue trim's Speed vs FE graph looks like this:


  8. alster

    alster Well-Known Member

    Wayne, still looks mighty impressive. I think the Ioniq SEL may be a better choice than the base blue model. I don't believe the few pounds of extra weight would make that much difference if the power train, etc. is all the same. Even with our 2016 Volt with my wife, and myself, all our fishing and snorkel / wet suit gear, and our 90 lb Lab I still got over 60 mpg just on gas with the Volt during our last fishing trip outing via Highway 101 in the Tillamook Oregon area. The additional 62 miles on $1.60 worth of electric was just a bonus..
    xcel and BillLin like this.
  9. BillLin

    BillLin PV solar, geothermal HVAC, hybrids and electrics

    That's what Wayne keeps telling us. ;)
    EdwinTheMagnificent and xcel like this.
  10. phoebeisis

    phoebeisis Well-Known Member

    Not to quibble(but i will quibble)-23.6 mpg at 60 mph- is something considering the MONSTROUS 440 ho 925 ft lbs
    But didn't the Cummins Ram get 26 mpg at 60 mph-gee should have looked up thread
    and the "little" 1/2 ton italian RAM 3.0 TD 41 mpg at 60 mph-granted not a fair comparison-but its straight 6 big brother-fair comparison-Monster vs monster
    and the little 1/2 ton-doesn't it have a 9000 lb tow rating-not a "full work truck rating" but a heck of a lot-and 420 ft lbs-the little 3.0 TD -decent amount of torque

    Last edited: Sep 18, 2017
    EdwinTheMagnificent, BillLin and xcel like this.
  11. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Charlie:

    Of all the HDs and LDs, RAM still owns the segment when it comes to efficiency. I like their UConnect Infotainment system and looks better than the Ford and Chevrolet offerings as well.

    Ford gets kudos for the most overall refined truck and Chevrolet for easiest to drive thanks to its Hydraulic/Electric power steering system plus GMs built in bumper step.

    Just another opinion however. :)

    EdwinTheMagnificent and BillLin like this.
  12. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    28/37 mpg rated 2018 Kia Rio S

    On the Pacific.

    Initial top off at a Shell in Encinitas, California just off the I-5.

    Initial top off. aFCD, Trip A, and Garmin reset and the initial top off.​

    The top offs - both initial and final - only took about 20-minutes each. This is one of the better vehicles to complete a calibration drive with.

    2018 Kia Rio S Calibration drive


    9-miles of stop and crawl before finally opening up.

    Final top off at a Shell in Carlsbad, California just off the I-5.

    Final Fill results: 60.6 mpg over 105.1 mi at 50 mph indicated and 106.6 mi on 1.752 gal = 60.84 mpg actual.​

    What the calibration drive indicates is the aFCD is has a positive offset (1.004) and so close as to be negligible. The aFCD = actual on the all-new 2018 Kia Rio S.

    Time for the steady states. And just minutes prior to the 2018 Kia Rio S Speed vs FE drive last night.


    2018 Kia Rio S Speed vs FE


    And the Speed vs FE detail? Temps from 66 to 67 degrees with a wind out of the NW at about 5 mph.

    Speedometer read 50.5 and 55.5 mph at 50 and 55 mph actual. 60, 65, and 70 mph indicated matched actual with minor parallax error.

    RPM at 60 mph = 1,980 RPM.

    The EPA highway of 37 mpg speed crossover occurred at an incredible 74.9 mph! The 2018 Kia Rio S trims EPA highway should be 45 mpg, not 37 mpg! That is a huge gap and congratulation to the Hyundai/Kia team for providing a Gamma engine designed almost a decade ago and keeping it competitive with efficiency like this.

    2018 Kia Rio S Engine Bay

    Direct injected 130 hp and 119 lb-ft. of torque I4​

    The Rio’s mill pulling a 2,714 lb Rio S provides a stronger kick in your butt than its chief rivals from Toyota (Yaris hatch and Yaris iA) and Nissan (Versa) and close to the same power to weight as the well-received Honda Fit as well.

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  13. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    The 2018 Hyundai Accent Limited's first measured drive.

    2018 Hyundai Accent Limited at LAX Shell

    Century and Aviation Blvd.: A staple for many of my review vehicles first top off.​

    And a bit of a change to a std. top off. I have described many times how much fuel it takes to top off a vehicle even though it is pretty much full already. Look at the fuel gauge before the fill and after. You can see in this case that the Accent's Fuel gauge is full but not quite pegged when I pulled in.


    It took 2.983 gallons to top it off and range increased by 53 miles. The all-new Accent has a 11.9-gallon tank spec. I suspect it holds closer to 14 to 14.5 gallons. With the efficiency it put up - see below, an 840-mile range from 14 gallons at 60 mpg would not be out of the question.

    The top off, displays, and Garmin reset.​

    An unusual traffic day with only a mile of heavy light ot light traffic before getting on the 405 and onto the 5 with only about 5-minutes of slowdowns on those infamous traffic hell holes. The exit ramp at Palomar Road and into the Carlsbad Shell adds another two or three minutes.

    2018 Hyundai Accent Limited at Carlsbad, CA Shell

    63.6 mpg over 92.9 mi indicated. 93.3 mi actual on 1.472 gal = 63.4 mpg and 54.3 mph avg. speed​

    While the 28/38 mpg rated 2018 Accent did not reach the same level as the record setting 32/40 mpg rated 17/18 Elantra ECO or second most efficient non-hybrid/non-diesel 32/42 mpg city/highway rated 17/18 Civic 1.5T sedan, it proved itself mightily. Especially since this is the Limited trim with the heavier 17" alloys and the not so low RCC Conti Pro Contacts. I cannot wait to get into an SE or SEL to find out what it can truly be driven too.

    2018 Hyundai Accent Limited Speed vs FE

    Final calibration fill results: 63.6 mpg over 92.9 miles indicated and 93.3 mi on 1.472 gal = 63.4 mpg at 54.3 mph actual.

    What the calibration drive indicates is the aFCD is has a slightly negative offset (0.997) and so close as to be negligible. Like the all-new 2018 Kia Rio tested a few weeks ago, the aFCD = actual on the all-new 2018 Hyundai Accent.

    Just minutes prior to the 2018 Hyundai Accent Limited Speed vs FE drive this morning.


    2018 Hyundai Accent Limited Speed vs FE


    And the Speed vs FE detail? Temps from 45 to 48 degrees with a wind out of the E at about 3 mph.

    The Speedometer read 1 mph over actual at all speeds between 50 and 70 mph per the Garmin’s readout.

    RPM at 60 mph = 2,010 RPM vs. a calculated 1,970 RPM.

    The EPA highway of 38 mpg speed crossover occurred at 70.1 mph. With my own self-imposed 67.5 mph EPA highway cross over +/- 2.5 mph, the 2018 Hyundai Accent Limited trim with the 17” tires and wheels falls within its 38 mpg EPA highway rating with a slight bias towards 39 mpg. Nothing ground breaking here.

    BillLin likes this.
  14. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    2019 Toyota RAV4 Hybrid Limited Trim


    Temps ranged from 41 to 43 degrees F with light 3 to 5 mph winds out of the west during the straight north/south runs. The resultant aFCD reading was taken at the same elevation as the reset over the 8-mile measured route in each direction, averaged, and the 0.984 aFCD offset applied. I did not temperature compensate to 70 degrees but if I did, you can add 7.5 percent (.0025/degree F) to each result.

    Speedometer offsets were consistent from 50 to 70 mph with the speedometer showing 1 mph under actual GPS speed.

    The EPA highway of 38 mpg speed crossover occurs at a straight line calc of a superlative 76.3 mpg. That is impressive for a CUV.

    BillLin likes this.
  15. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    Temperature was a solid 37 degrees F across the 2-hour time frame in which the RT tests segments were conducted. Winds were out of the SW at ~ 5 mph during the North and South runs.


    Only in two runs did I have a change in SoC of +1 and -1 bar from the flying reset at start to flying finish data recording. I added and subtracted 1.5 mpg for those to 2 individual runs to compensate for the change in SoC.

    Indicated speed at each target of 50, 55, 60, 65, and 70 mph was one short of actual so CC was set at 1 mph higher for all runs to match the Garmin real time speed. The EPA Highway crossover occurs at 67.6 mph which is on target for the 65 to 70 mph range we have experienced from most vehicles.

    Only one time on a single run did I see a drop from the target speed and immediately back to the target. The CC was really solid as I usually see a few back and forths - higher on slight descents and lower on slight ascents, with most vehicles.

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  16. litesong

    litesong litesong

    Had an acquaintance that I did small jobs for....mowed her yard, drove her to necessary places, etc. She had two doberman pincers of larger size. Once, we were driving with the two dogs in the back seat. One of the dogs huffed & snorted. I glanced back & the dog's snout was three inches away from my right ear. Paying attention to my driving, the image of the snout was a bit unsettling. About 2 minutes later, the dog made more noise & made its move. He laid its head on my shoulder & I stroked his muzzle.
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  17. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    You can read the full review writeup within the 2020 Toyota Corolla Hybrid Wins Green Car of the Year -- "One of the most popular sedans in the U.S. takes a coveted award back home to Texas." story.

    2020 Toyota Corolla LE Hybrid

    Just moments before heading out to complete the steady states last last night.


    Temps ranged from 57 to 58 degrees and winds were calm.

    *: It was raining progressively harder from 55 mph to the 70 mph back and forth averaged runs so 60, 65, and 70 mph FE was hit hard with an unknown offset. As a guesstimate, maybe a 15 percent hit at 70 mph, a 10 percent at 65 mph, and 5 percent at 60 mph?

    The EPA highway (52 mpg) crossover occurred at just 66.9 mph but again with the heavy rain, that number should be asterisked the hell out of.

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  18. litesong

    litesong litesong

    Now, the new Elantras are advertised to have 14 gallon tanks. Might Hyundai save "costs by scale" by using the same 14 gallon gas tanks in both the Accent & Elantra? Years ago, the Chevy Eco-Cruze was said to be fitted with a 12(+?) gallon gas tank, while all the other Cruze models were fitted with 15(+?) gallon tanks. What happened was the Eco-Cruze had a 12 gallon cut-off, so the EPA(actually Chevy tested & reported to the EPA) would test the Eco-Cruze using no more than a "full" tank of 12 gallons of fuel, & running the test with 18 pounds less on-board weight. In truth, all Cruzes of all models(including the Eco-Cruze) had the 15 gallon gas tank installed. If drivers took the time to slowly fill the last 3 gallons, the Eco-Cruze would take the full 15(+?) gallons.
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2019
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  19. litesong

    litesong litesong

    Yeah, that article was written for the times when america was going to have reserved lanes for 100+ MPH vehicles. They were recommending big taillights, so the speeders could see way ahead of themselves. They were eyeballing the german autobahn & figuring how to reserve some of the american interstate freeways for rich man travel courses. The article was funny with the 3 speed auto trannies built for long term high speeds, & forget any low speeds.
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2019
    xcel and BillLin like this.
  20. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    The all-new CVT proved itself.

    30/40 mpg rated 2020 Hyundai Elantra Limited


    Temps ranged from 47 to 51 degrees F and winds were calm through last nights and this mornings minimal traffic data collection. The EPA highway (40 mpgUS) crossover occurred at a very healthy 72.9 mph meaning that is a solid highway result and many will be more than happy to receive 40+ mpg on some of their own mid to high speed mostly highway jaunts.

    litesong and BillLin like this.

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