Mileage Gains Using Ethanol Seen 20% Higher Than EPA Says

Discussion in 'Fuel Economy' started by JohnM, Sep 7, 2013.

  1. litesong

    litesong litesong

    First, it is NOT illegal to use 100% gasoline in gasoline engines. The EPA restricts the availability, but if you can find it, use it. The actual increased mpg due to 100% gasoline blunts the EPA contention that ethanol burns "cleaner". Combined with the information that a minimum of 1 gallon of fossil fuel is needed to make 1 gallon of ethanol, the EPA contention isn't true.

    With a quick look, I don't think anyone has posted, which has worked hard to list its almost 7500 sources for 100% gasoline in Canada & the U.S. The website has a great zoomable map & details of station fuel octanes available & restrictions.

    The southern U.S., from Oklahoma to N. Carolina, south to Florida, & west to Louisiana has about half the 100% gasoline sources. The great concentration of southern stations could be due to NASCAR fans, who know 100% gasoline is best for lower compression ratio gasoline engines, which have been designed & built to most efficiently use 100% gasoline. This is not rocket science. Higher compression ratio ethanol engines (like INDY car engines) use ethanol at its most efficient.

    There is a good possibility that DFI is having problems with ethanol & that 100% gasoline may be the best fuel to use in DFI engines.

    Don't mix the two fuels for the best mpg from 100% gasoline.
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2013
  2. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Litesong:

    I see you post on the pure gas site. Even updated a station last month in that no longer carries it.

    There are still pockets but they are becoming the rare exception.

    I-80 Truck Stop in Walcott, IA.

    Lexington, NE earlier this spring.​

    Total luck to have run into either of them at the time. I mean IA and NE? Total luck.

  3. 08EscapeHybrid

    08EscapeHybrid Moderator

    Another thing to note is also has Android and iPhone apps, so its easy to find ethanol free fuel while on the road.

  4. I did put a gallon of 90 e0 in the volt. Havent used the ICE yet to see any change.

    $4.75/gallon - OUCH. But with as little as the volt uses I wanted to try it. Should be pretty easy to see the difference with all the info available from onstar and voltstats
  5. 08EscapeHybrid

    08EscapeHybrid Moderator

    I wonder if a gallon is enough to reset the fuel maps though. I know it takes my FEH about 1,000 miles (3 tanks) to completely reset the fuel maps after some E10 has been put in it.
  6. Idk. I had under a gallon in the tank. And running 95+% ev Im not about to fill it up unless I go on a road trip. I will keep putting in the E0 for a while. Hopefully find someplace cheaper than the Airport.
  7. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi James:

    Did you say airport? E0 high octane Av-Gas usually has lead in it and that would destroy your CAT in no time flat.

    Hopefully it is just a std. E0 pump.

  8. They have 2 versions. 90 octane no lead and a higher octane low lead. I grabbed the no lead.
    Good eye on that !

    Also downloaded the app above and found 2 stations that I didnt see before. One is real close to where I drive the volt twice a week. Called them and e0 is $4.49 / gallon.
    The second station is just a couple miles from the Mother Agents place. I was just at that station about 2 weeks ago and got gas in the van. Did see a tank out back but wasnt really paying attention.

    That would be a nice stop. I just made a 240 volt adapter cord so the Volt can be charged at the in-laws place. Send the Agent down for the day, tell her to charge it/fill it with E0/ and wash and wax it while she's at it :) I'm sure that'll happen.
  9. priusCpilot

    priusCpilot George

    Are you using Top Tier Gas?
  10. Nice SPam.

    Why is E0 over $1/gallon more than e10 here. You guys are getting it for $0.10-$0.30/gallon more?

    The airport was $4.75/gallon. The other station was $4.49/gallon. Maybe I'll do some more price checking on the pure gas app
  11. ALS

    ALS Super Moderator Staff Member

    It isn't spam as long as Wayne is making a few bucks selling Scan Gauges to the members of the board. :D When Wayne isn't making money off the product then it becomes SPAM. :p
  12. the spam got deleted
  13. phoebeisis

    phoebeisis Well-Known Member

    The suburban-seems to get about 13 vs 12.4 pure gas vs 10% ethanol-5% or so-in pure city with my wife ruining my mpg
    I get more like 15.5-if only I drive it-very short average trip-3 miles or so
    The prius-it is lower=but since I don't drive it much-or fill it-not really sure.
    energy loss-should be 3% right?
  14. 08EscapeHybrid

    08EscapeHybrid Moderator

    In the FEH, ethanol can be up to 8 MPG difference, but my only real experience in the K1500 is on highway trips fully loaded with 1,000 pounds of cargo. The K1500 usually gets 16 MPG on E10 and 18 on E0. That's 70-75 MPH, cruise control, and a/c running. Since throughout the year the K1500 is only used on occasional short local trips I don't see the benefit of taking it out to Winchester to get E0.
  15. phoebeisis

    phoebeisis Well-Known Member

    so about 11-12 percent less on E10-
    I should measure my Suburban mpg loss more closely
    But it is tough to do because just a "little" wife driving KILLS my fillup mpg
    If she puts 20 of the 120 miles on it-meaning 8-10 gallon $35 dollar fillip
    she SINKS my mpg -her 20 miles-can easily use 2.5 gallons since she might be waiting in a bank line-engine AC on-for 20 minutes on a 4 mile cold engine trip
    and her other trips could be .8mile+.8 miles to dollar store and back-cold engine.

    You know how thirsty those 5.7's are when cold-and if you don't glide them.
    I "might" approach 10 mpg on a .8 mile cold engine trip-maybe maybe
    She "might" get 7 mpg on that trip!
    With the prius she would get maybe 25-30 on the same trip-
    She doesn't drive fast-but she is a typical gas brake gas brake gas brake USA driver.

    Needless to say-I'm very fond of my wife-so I grit my teeth-keep my mouth shut in respect to "why don't you glide" yeah divorce court expensive-besides she has other excellent qualities-love my wife I guess!
    Besides it was my decision to get the $2950 dollar suburban(great decision) as a 2 dog 4 cat 1-2 adult second car and evacuation vehicle
    Could have gotten an older Dodge minivan for same $$ same utility
    but no way would a high mile dodge minivan be as reliable and owner proof as this suburban-or as easy or cheap to DIY repair.

    Well the E10 mpg inconsistency is odd,
    It would be nice to do an actual test??With a GUZZLER not a sipper.
    Have someone drive 400 miles hy? o% and 10%

    A small 3% difference would be within the fill limit variation even with a 20 mpg guzzler-10 gallons 10 vs 10.3 gallons could be fill variation
    but a 10% difference 10 vs 11-easy to detect.

    Anyone actually done a somewhat controlled test-perhaps scan gauge average reading at 75 mph-could detect 10% difference 3gph vs 3.3gph??

    Yeah we need a somewhat controlled test???
  16. phoebeisis

    phoebeisis Well-Known Member

    Here NOLA suburb 0% pure is maybe 7 cents more I think.
  17. jcp123

    jcp123 Caliente!

    No doubt you can see an Ethy boost...IF you have an engine built for it. And that ain't no software change.

    I heard that Ethanol from switchgrass or sugarcane is the most efficient to produce...true?
  18. Mountain Driver

    Mountain Driver Active Member

    Interesting. All 4 of my vehicles (92 Dodge Caravan, 02 Town & Country, 07 Toyota Tacoma, 01 Honda Insight) exhibit mpg LOSS with ethanol blended fuel. (Watched the mpg change when it was mandated in my area) More ethanol, more loss.

    In the 'General' discussion forum I posted a media link regarding discussions of reducing the ethanol content in fuel. Harmful in some applications. (Also not creating the efficiency impact that was hoped for).

    Yes it's true, other forms of ethanol are more efficient to produce. In relation to 'units of energy' in (to produce the ethanol) vs 'units of energy' out; sugar cane byproduct (used in Brazil) is about a 1:10 ratio, switchgrass (which used to grow wild all over the great plains) is about 1:15, corn and such 1: 1.5 (yeah 1.5). I wonder who we're helping with the corn related ethanol? I'm burning more product & producing more emissions. I'm not so sure the consumer benefits much.

    Brazil is 100% independent of foreign oil. Very Interesting.

    side note: ABC ran a short documentary on Brazil's success in this matter. The correspondant was driving a GM car on Brazilian highway. Even more interesting.

  19. 08EscapeHybrid

    08EscapeHybrid Moderator

    Corn is a very inefficient means of producing ethanol. Why do you think that moonshiners dump sugar in their mash if corn produced a high yield on its own? I've said for years that a more efficient means would be sugar beets. Higher yield of ethanol for unit of energy put into it. The corn farmers would be very unhappy though. I also think that even more so would be a genetically engineered algae that produced sugar would be the best. It could be done anywhere, in just about any weather, and not take up valuable farmland. Again, the corn farmers would not get their $, so it won't happen.
  20. Mountain Driver

    Mountain Driver Active Member


    Agreed, corn is not the efficient ingrediant. Many other options (that don't affect the grocery bill).

    I disagree on the corn farmers getting the $$. Ask a farmer what they get. Follow the money to find who's making out.


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