Ford’s 47 mpg City/Highway/Combined Hybrid Ratings Ring Hollow

Discussion in 'Articles' started by xcel, Feb 26, 2013.

  1. priusCpilot

    priusCpilot George

    I also think Fuelly is a very good gauge of real world MPGs of the masses.
     
  2. RedylC94

    RedylC94 Well-Known Member

    Even if everybody is reporting accurate numbers, I see no reason for confidence that the relatively few owners who are aware of those sites and sufficiently motivated to report are truly representative of "the masses."
     
  3. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    I don't. I'm more interested in what a skilled hypermiler can do with any given car. Not the "average" driver , even if he does report accurately. The hypermiler's report will also include much more information , like average speed , length of trip , temperature , elevation changes , etc.
     
  4. DaveJ

    DaveJ Well-Known Member

    I have had my 2012 TCH LE for a little over 3 months and 4000 miles. As a data point to this conversation, my 6 tanks are as follows.
    1. 44.03
    2.44.19
    3.44.78
    4 44.78(not a typo, two tanks the same)
    5 46.48 (E0)
    5 49.18 (E0)

    Real world driving with mix highway and medium size town(20k) using slightly over mild hypermiling techniques.

    Temp. have been 60 to 95, speeds have been average 5 mph under posted, longest trip 130 miles and lots of short intown errand running, some mild elevation changes(300-600ft) and hardly any real flat driving.

    A fellow at toyotanation.com living in New Mexico has a 2012 TCH XLE has got 58.5 mpg using advanced hypermiling over an 885 mile tank.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2013
  5. CmaxVsPrius

    CmaxVsPrius Moderator

    Perhaps the only true rep of the masses, is the masses. And we can't spy on every owner ...

    My C-max and me are only sometimes getting an average of 47 mpg when I'm in town and the weather is warm. Otherwise, I get less than 40 mpg. I can't wait until Ford updates the hybrid computer next month like they announced they would.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2013
  6. phoebeisis

    phoebeisis Well-Known Member

    How likely is it that computer updates can get another 5 mpg??
    It is "short" of EPA by at least that-right?
    Seems like a long shot?
     
  7. thunderstruck

    thunderstruck Super Moderator

    Unless you're the NSA.
     
  8. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Dave:

    There is no such thing as extreme hypermiling techniques.

    Charlie, unlikely to impossible. C-MAX owners will see soon enough. Of course even CleanMPG members will be exaggerating the results early on but two weeks in, we'll know from them directly.

    Wayne
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2013
  9. priusCpilot

    priusCpilot George

    Which is exactly what fuelly shows.
     
  10. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk 2010 Prius (CAN Touring) Staff Member

    Assuming the updates are to utilize the battery more, I would hope they don't go to far.

    This is coming from Honda Civic Hybrid ownership, where the inverse happened:

    Initially Honda set the program to more aggresively use the battery, and then found the battery's dying, so programmed to be more conservative. Too little too late for many owners.
     
  11. yaris12

    yaris12 Member

    Good article. I only trust mpg from actual drivers on the fueleconomy.gov website. The mpg are real life.
     
  12. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

    They don't require any validation from the user or for the provided data. So you can't fully trust those either. I entered data there before and I didn't see explanation to not trust aFCD.
    I like fuelly.com little bit better just because there's much more user data so you can average out.
     
  13. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    yeah , but it's data from a GUBBERMINT website ! You know it's gotta be real. Crap.
     
  14. RedylC94

    RedylC94 Well-Known Member

    I wouldn't give too much credence to either of those sites, even if the sample size is large. They're not based on controlled testing. The average owner of Car X who bothers to report data to such a site may be a faster, more aggressive driver than the average owner of Car Y who reports. That will make Car X look worse than it actually is, relative to Car Y, even though both are "real world." Those sites can't correct for such inconsistencies. You're correct that credibility is lower when the sample size is small.
     
  15. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    Saw this Google ad at the Chicago Tribune this morning. 10-13-2013

    [​IMG]

    This is well beyond both the restatements and actuals to be a simple "We have not updated it yet...".

    I do not like where this is going as an enthusiast and consumer alike.

    Wayne
     
  16. thunderstruck

    thunderstruck Super Moderator

    Maybe Lisa Madigan needs to have a look at the ad.
     
  17. 08EscapeHybrid

    08EscapeHybrid Moderator

    What I find interesting is that all the vehicles are listed as "Up to XX MPG", and the CMax is listed as 47 MPG.
     
  18. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Here in the Atlanta Area 2.17-2.29 for Reg.

    I have a CMAX Hybrid and it has two Trip displays which one I reset for each fillup and the other I use for the whole trip. My Trip Displays shows hrs and min. driving time( when the car is on, Miles driven, miles driven on the battery only, MPG and fuel used. Does the Niro have this display? I have fun Hypermiling too, but just an amateur compared to you. I have a couple of cross country tanks of 68 mpg with life time Fuelly average of 47.5 mpg. http://www.fuelly.com/car/ford/c-max/2013/ptjones/163299 Curious if you had any Hypermiling tips I hadn't thought of?

    Paul
     
  19. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    I'm guessing you don't want people to know what your driving total time/ average speed was or you would have Posted it.

    I'm looking forward to test driving Niro when I find one. It may be a while it sounds like from the Dealers out here. We have a thread on the FORD CMAX Hybrid Forum talking about the KIA NIRO. http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/5801-2017-kia-niro/ We have a few members interested, we think 2017 is the last year for the CMAX Hybrid. We have one member that looked at them both and got the CMAX. I only found one Niro driver on Fuellycom http://www.fuelly.com/car/kia/niro/2016/arska/534123 averaging 45.5mpg with best of 47.9mpg. He is doing 85% HWY, I believe EPA is around 50mpg so this points out the importance of how to drive your Hybrid efficiently. Wayne is getting 76mpg, big difference. :)

    And that reminds me that even as good as Wayne is He can get poor mpg's when he doesn't understand how to drive a Hybrid efficiently. Case in point four years ago Wayne did a comparison between FORD CMAX Hybrid, Prius V and Prius where CMAX only got around 37mpg, caused quite a uproar on the CMAX Forum with quite a few previous Prius owners. They knew exactly what happen, Wayne drove CMAX like a Prius which you don't do if you want to get good MPG's. What makes it worse is the Fuelly average for CMAX Hybrid owners is 40.5mpg so most CMAX drivers get better gas mileage then Wayne did. How can this be?:confused:

    I'm interested in what kind of strategy the KIA NIRO uses to get good FE, CMAX uses the battery alot, my current # are 49%EV, 51% ICE, with 80% HWY, CMAX has top EV speed of 85 mph.:)

    Paul
     
  20. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Paul:

    4 days - > 700 miles/day - from LA to North of Jacksonville, FL and two more days to NY City in winter. It is surely a much higher average speed than your current readout but it is a meaningless number given the mandatory stops. If you can do better, the Guinness World Record of 76.551 mpg is certainly available for you to attempt to beat and I highly encourage you to try. I would suggest that you drive your C-MAX during mid-summer however as the Niro was easily pulling 90+ mpg segments with temps in the 70s.
    Regarding driving the C-MAX, you are way off the mark and I would highly recommend that you read both the CleanMPG Reviews the 2013 Ford C-MAX Hybrid and Ford’s 47 mpg City/Highway/Combined Hybrid Ratings Ring Hollow write-ups. You can than make appraisals from facts instead of gibberish which is what you posted. As a refresh, here were the results.

    During our 2013 Ford C-MAX review first drive, it allowed a 66.8 mpgUS displayed result (63.8 mpg actual over 100.3 miles) of std. Southern Calif. rush hour. By comparison, the 2017 Kia Niro provided 92.0 mpgUS actual on much of that same Interstate last month. Different starting locations given I picked up the C-MAX just outside of LAX and the Niro in Irvine, Calif., respectively.

    In the Hybrid Ratings Ring Hollow comparison story, the 47/47/47 mpgUS city/highway rated at the time C-MAX fell far short of the much lower rated 43/39 mpgUS city/highway rated Prius v in back to back drives with multiple drivers, on the same Interstate(s) and roads, and at the same exact time. The following data produced irrefutable facts.

    C-MAX vs Prius v - High Speed
    • The C-MAX actual fuel economy of 35.537 mpgUS result fell short of its EPA highway rating by 24.4%
    • Prius v actual fuel economy of 40.768 mpgUS beat its EPA highway rating by 1.9%. More interesting is that it provided 14.7% more mpg than the C-MAX
    C-MAX vs Prius v - All-City
    • C-MAX actual fuel economy: 52.0 mpg actual over 22.8 miles result beat its EPA city rating by 10.6%
    • Prius v actual fuel economy: 55.8 mpg actual over 22.8 miles result beat its EPA city rating by 43.1% and 7.3% more mpg than the C-MAX
    C-MAX vs Prius v - Speed vs. Fuel Economy
    • C-MAX fell below its EPA highway rating of 47 mpg at 60.9 mph (calculated straight-line interpolation)
    • Prius v fell behind its EPA highway rating of 40 mpg at 72.7 mph (calculated straight-line interpolation)
    C-MAX vs Prius v - Max Effort
    • C-MAX actual fuel economy: 72.1 mpg over 14.5 miles actual
    • Prius v actual fuel economy: 99.9 mpg over 14.5 miles actual
    The above details is just one reason Ford had to restate the C-MAX's EPA results not just once but twice and it is now rated at less than the Prius v in both city and highway. It simply was not as efficient as the Prius v and neither of these two rivals are in the same league as the all-new 2017 Kia Niro.

    If you are looking for a replacement, the all-new Kia Niro is one kick @$$ ride in terms of skipping the pump plus includes the latest advanced features, safety, and amenities. You will discover the same when they arrive here in North America later this month or next.

    Wayne
     
    kbergene likes this.

Share This Page