In the wake of 26 dead in Newtown, CT

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by xcel, Dec 16, 2012.

  1. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    The second amendment to the US constitution reads as follows:
    This regulated Militia as of May 1792 consisted of the following according to Wiki:

    "Each and every free able-bodied white male citizen of the respective States, resident therein, who is or shall be of age of eighteen years, and under the age of forty-five years (except as is herein after excepted) shall severally and respectively be enrolled in the militia...[and] every citizen so enrolled and notified, shall, within six months thereafter, provide himself with a good musket or firelock, a sufficient bayonet and belt, two spare flints, and a knapsack, a pouch with a box therein to contain not less than twenty-four cartridges, suited to the bore of his musket or firelock, each cartridge to contain a proper quantity of powder and ball: or with a good rifle, knapsack, shot-pouch and powder-horn, twenty balls suited to the bore of his rifle, and a quarter of a pound of powder; and shall appear, so armed, accoutred and provided, when called out to exercise, or into service, except, that when called out on company days to exercise only, he may appear without a knapsack."

    If Gun owners want to interpret the Constitution verbatim, then let's consider interpreting it verbatim.

    Question: How many of the killings this year alone would have occurred if the shooters were forced to use a smooth bore hand loaded musket?

    Answer: We would have at least twenty 6 and 7 year angels still with us and probably thousands more?

    Lord hear my prayers for comfort and solace for these angels families during this most tragic of circumstances :ccry:

    The following is a list (as released by police) of the victims in Friday's shooting spree on the campus of Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown.

    :rose: In Memoriam :rose:

    - Charlotte Bacon, 2/22/06, female :love:
    - Daniel Barden, 9/25/05, male :love:
    - Rachel Davino, 7/17/83, female :love:
    - Olivia Engel, 7/18/06, female :love:
    - Josephine Gay, 12/11/05, female :love:
    - Ana M. Marquez-Greene, 04/04/06, female :love:
    - Dylan Hockley, 3/8/06, male :love:
    - Dawn Hochsprung, 06/28/65, female :love:
    - Madeleine F. Hsu, 7/10/06, female :love:
    - Catherine V. Hubbard, 6/08/06, female :love:
    - Chase Kowalski, 10/31/05, male :love:
    - Jesse Lewis, 6/30/06, male :love:
    - James Mattioli , 3/22/06, male :love:
    - Grace McDonnell, 12/04/05, female :love:
    - Anne Marie Murphy, 07/25/60, female :love:
    - Emilie Parker, 5/12/06, female :love:
    - Jack Pinto, 5/06/06, male :love:
    - Noah Pozner, 11/20/06, male :love:
    - Caroline Previdi, 9/07/06, female :love:
    - Jessica Rekos, 5/10/06, female :love:
    - Avielle Richman, 10/17/06, female :love:
    - Lauren Rousseau, 6/1982, female (full date of birth not specified) :love:
    - Mary Sherlach, 2/11/56, female :love:
    - Victoria Soto, 11/04/85, female :love:
    - Benjamin Wheeler, 9/12/06, male :love:
    - Allison N. Wyatt, 7/03/06, female :love:

    Only a handful of the 26 Newtown, CT shooting Victims, Community plus one other...​


    Last edited: Dec 19, 2012
  2. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA He who posts articles

    Reposted from FB;

    The timeline suggests the entire shooting incident only lasted a few minutes. An expert marksman could not have inflicted that much damage in so short a period of time.

    Indiscriminate killing can only be done with rapid fire weapons. As sick as this person was (I will NEVER say his name) I doubt even he could have looked each child in the eye as he shot them.

    It is too bad he didnt use the pistols because I truly believe he didnt have the balls to pull it off
  3. herm

    herm Well-Known Member

    Welcome to the forum Dave.. good to see you here.

    This atrocity will provide another chance for leftists to ban guns.. we need to ban crazy people.. mandatory psychiatric evaluations when every boy turns 18, girls seem to be pretty stable.

    1. Militia.. what the framers meant was anyone capable of taking up arms, usually excluding women and slaves I think.. with some age limitations, its an obsolete term and the Constitution is adjusted as needed, basically it means all law abiding people. The 2nd really does not limit the Right to those people since its an God given unalienable right to self-defense and to fight tyranny. The Colonials were still smarting from the gun restrictions imposed by the British, later on white democrats used gun bans to control the newly freed slaves during reconstruction (for some odd reason blacks were republican back then).. blacks were really bothered by lynching parties.. Yes Wayne, Democrats were the party of lynching and the ku-klux klan, and so were the anti-gun laws of those times (oddly enough the democrats are still antigun today but blacks are now democrats, short memories I think).

    2. Rapid firing black powder pistols: can be mail ordered in most States.. example:;MMcat104792580;cat104503680


    Pistoleros back in the day would carry up to 6 of these guns ready to use, reliable if you know what you are doing and kept dry. They also carried pre-loaded cylinders in leather pouches. I have one of these and they are awesome, deadly too. Great fun at the range with very low ammo costs.

  4. herm

    herm Well-Known Member

    the kid had some problems:;_ylt=A2KJ3CcE4s1QKj4A0YfQtDMD

    At Newtown High School, Adam Lanza had trouble relating to fellow students and teachers, but that was only part of his problem. He seemed not to feel physical or psychological pain in the same way as classmates.

    Richard Novia, the school district's head of security until 2008, who also served as adviser for the school technology club, said Lanza clearly "had some disabilities."

    "If that boy would've burned himself, he would not have known it or felt it physically," Novia told The Associated Press in a phone interview. "It was my job to pay close attention to that."

    Novia was responsible for monitoring students as they used soldering tools and other potentially dangerous electrical equipment.

    He recalled meeting with school guidance counselors, administrators and with the boy's mother, Nancy Lanza, to understand his problems and find ways to ensure his safety. But there were other crises only a mother could solve.

    "He would have an episode, and she'd have to return or come to the high school and deal with it," Novia said, describing how the young man would sometimes withdraw completely "from whatever he was supposed to be doing," whether it was sitting in class or reading a book.

    Adam Lanza "could take flight, which I think was the big issue, and it wasn't a rebellious or defiant thing," Novia said. "It was withdrawal."
  5. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Herm:

    His now dead mom purchased the assault weapon legally. Why an assault weapon again? To kill 20 innocents for one :(

  6. ALS

    ALS Super Moderator Staff Member

    Again the blame goes to the gun not the mentally unstable young man and his mother,

    1. He was denied the ability to buy a gun the week before.
    2. Murdered his mother so he could access her firearms.
    3. His mother is the one most responsible for not securing the guns in a safe.
    Had she secured them even with hardened trigger locks this tragedy would never
    have had to happen.

    In 2010 32,885 people were killed in automobile accidents, 10,228 were due to drunk drivers.
    So where is the call for banning alcohol as well as automobiles?
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2012
  7. seftonm

    seftonm Veteran Staff Member

  8. herm

    herm Well-Known Member

    The unfortunate fact is that if you exclude black young males from the gun death statistics the US has a very low rate.. you can do the googling yourself, this is a depressing topic and I'm still not fully recovered from the Nov fiasco.

    You want less gun deaths?.. get rid of the War on Some Drugsā„¢ and eliminate welfare for able bodied people.. you dont have much time for getting in trouble if you have to spend 10 hours at work every day..
  9. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Herm:

    I agree in some respects but assault weapons? Why would anyone need a Bushmaster? To defend themselves?

    Al, what teenage kids in families with guns in America do not know where the Gun safe key is? My brother -in-law is a huge gun owner and both kids know where the keys are...

    1. I am not sure he tried to buy a gun from what I saw on TV. They cannot find him in the rumored to be Dicks Sporting Good's trying to do so.

    2. and 3. See above.

    From other aspects, there was little to no indication of mental instability here either.

    What is the matter with allowing single shot muzzle loaders instead of Assault weapons? If that were the case, no children would have died this week :(

  10. worthywads

    worthywads Don't Feel Like Satan, I am to AAA

  11. southerncannuck

    southerncannuck Well-Known Member

    Wayne, if you get a chance could you post what laws you would like to have enacted. Give me an idea what you would propose.
  12. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Southerncannuck:

    No assault weapons.

    Not sure if the following is possible as I am not a gun owner?

    A single round now costs $10.00 per and all refill equipment (machine, powder, shells and bullet) is VAT'ed at cost + $5,000 USD. You get caught selling rounds without tax collection, mandatory jail time. Get caught with rounds without a receipt, mandatory jail time.

    Collecting is fine. Shooting however is going to cost big time. It should help reduce the volume of ammunition which should reduce the innocent death rate and is not part of the gun collecting experience I think???

    What is yours, Al's and Herm's suggestions? Blaming this on crazy's, lack of mental health and not doing anything except allowing the status quo or laws to expire is not working anymore.

  13. herm

    herm Well-Known Member

    What problem do you want to solve?

    school shootings?: ban crazy people.. or institutionalize them if no one will be responsible for them.. Since we wont catch all the crazies ones put fences around schools with gun detectors at the entrance and arm the teachers whether they want to or not.

    gun mortality?: half of all gun related deaths in the US are related somehow to young black men.. the causes?..Crime and homicide survive in the following fertile breeding grounds:

    2.Alcohol abuse
    3.Drug use
    4.Inner City Cycle of Violence

    We know how to solve those problems, honest hard work will do a good start at that..

    The other half of gun deaths in the US is suicide (mostly among men, women use other ways).. a lot of it is older people so provide a cleaner way to off yourself.. deregulate sleeping pills?, ban catalytic converters in cars?
  14. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    We all lost 20 small and completely innocent little angels along with 6 more teachers and staff at Sandy Hook Elementary this week. God bless them all :ccry:


    With the death toll at 26, the Newtown shooting is the second-deadliest school shooting in U.S. history, behind only the 2007 shooting at Virginia Tech that left 32 people dead.

  15. KirkRV8

    KirkRV8 Member

    First off I am heart broken for the victims and there families and continue to pray for them.

    That said this will probably get me banned or something but I say this with sincere respect to everyone here,
    Wayne your view of the 2nd AD is flawed the purpose of the right to bear arms is for the people to protect themselves from Gov.
    Also don't take my word look this up yourself "Gun Free" zones DON'T work, it has been proven time and time again that all you do with Gun laws is disarm good people. The highest crime rates are in areas with the strictest gun laws. Also AR-15's are NOT assault rifles!!! They are semi automatic rifles.
    I respect everyone's opinions and as this is your forum I respectfully offer mine in contrast to yours.

    P.S I AM a gun owner and I am a responsible gun owner, and I take responsibility for my safety and that of my family. The police can't be everywhere
  16. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Super Moderator Staff Member

    To me the 2nd Amendment is about people being ready for use of firearms to defend the State. It's not for personal protection. So it seems blatantly unconstitutional to try and ban military weapons. If anything, it's non-military weapons that should be banned.

    Rubbish like a posturing bill to ban assault weapons that won't get past the House does nothing to help and all it does it entrench positions.

    There is very little the government can do to prevent events like these without breaching the 2nd Amendment. Even in the UK, which has restrictive gun access there have been a few mass killings in the last 30 years.

    Given politics where the 2nd Amendment will not be removed and Congress is divided, instead of trying to circumvent the Amendment, Democrats should instead focus on the spirit of the Amendment and try to work across the aisle to develop a comprehensive bill related to purchase, storage and training. Changes could at least reduce the number of deaths, both in accidents and homicide although it will do little to deal with general violent crime.
  17. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Super Moderator Staff Member

    One for every occasion:

  18. herm

    herm Well-Known Member

    Honestly, I was not going to say anything about Democrat controlled areas and gun crime..
  19. ALS

    ALS Super Moderator Staff Member

    Please I'm not being cold but it seems no one gives a crap about the 400 plus dead black victims who were killed so far this year in Chicago. Which as we all know has the toughest gun laws in the U.S.. If they were white I guess everyone would be outraged.

    Take the last weekend in August in Chicago where nine were killed and thirty seven wounded in one week end. Again it's the liberal political leaders who don't give a crap about the 46 minorities that got shot that week end. 2012/08/27/chicago-shootings-9-killed

    What about Memorial day weekend where 10 were killed and 30 wounded in Chicago.

    The fact is you're safer as an American solder walking the streets of Kandahar Afghanistan than being a black man walking the streets of Chicago which has the toughest gun laws in the nation.
  20. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Kirk and Al:

    Given what has happened, the onus is on gun owners to come up with a solution better than status quo or allowing Assault Weapons in the hands of citizens. The Bushmaster used in the Newtown murders was an assault weapon and was obtained legally by the mom.

    One of the problems the City of Chicago's Police Chief and Mayor Emanuel speak about all the time is the availability of guns outside the city. You cannot buy them inside but they come in from outside with the ease of turning the key and going for a ride. I saw Mayor Bloomberg speaking of a similar situation for NY City yesterday.

    So how do "you" solve this?


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