Poll: Do You Think America Should Dissolve

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by bestmapman, Nov 12, 2012.

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Do you think the US should split up.

Poll closed Dec 12, 2012.
  1. Yes, I think the US should split up

    4 vote(s)
    13.8%
  2. No, the US should not split up

    25 vote(s)
    86.2%
  1. Ophbalance

    Ophbalance Administrator Staff Member

    If even a fraction of what is reported about Monsanto is remotely true... they can be kicked off the island completely as far as I'm concerned. I've nothing against GM food, but cannot abide evil incarnate.
     
  2. booferama

    booferama He who posts articles

    Who's been burping the United States? :)
     
  3. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    16 stay together and 3 breakups to this point... It looks like the Union will survive another 4 years if this poll is any indication ;)

    Wayne
     
  4. Ophbalance

    Ophbalance Administrator Staff Member

  5. Indigo

    Indigo Witch with wry sense of humor

  6. bestmapman

    bestmapman Fighting untruth and misinformation

  7. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Jud:

    Because as a group, we are far more sane than those hanging out over there apparently ;)

    Wayne
     
  8. bestmapman

    bestmapman Fighting untruth and misinformation

    I was thinking more liberal.
     
  9. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Jud:

    Maybe I should have posted "a lot smarter" :)

    Score as of this post: 17 no and 3 yes.

    Wayne
     
  10. bestmapman

    bestmapman Fighting untruth and misinformation

    I guess that goes back to your uneducated/educated states chart. I guess that is actually how you feel. :D

    Here is my take on what is happening. The petition people are sending a message. Politics is and has become very dirty and nasty. When the election is over it is now harder to kiss and make up. People have deep resentments and it is not going to go away quickly. This was a very close election and a very divisive campaign. The results will linger for a long time.
     
  11. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Jud:

    What probably concerns the RNC the most is the economy is recovering from what would have been worse than the Great Depression caused for the most part by their trickle down economic policies of the last decade. If the economy continues to improve over the next four years even with higher rates and the wealthiest in America in order to reduce the deficit, what it that going to make the RNC look like?

    Splitting the country does not do anything productive whatsoever. It would in fact almost guarantee the world heading into total chaos and all American's whether right or left leaning in far worse shape than better.

    That is the problem with dissolution. Some like yourself want it even though the consequences are all bad. Why would you want to wish yourself, your family and future generations of your family harm because you do not like the outcome of an election or have been taken by the RNCs dogma? They do not care about you as was evidence by McConnell’s YouTube speech I posted earlier today. They only care about themselves and you are not them by any stretch.

    It is very short sighted and fortunately for you, your family, every US citizen and every man, woman and child on the planet it is not going to happen.

    Wayne
     
  12. bestmapman

    bestmapman Fighting untruth and misinformation

    It depends on how you measure recovery. I bet the 12 million unemployed don't think the economy is recovering very fast if at all. Lets just see what happens first.

    http://www.deptofnumbers.com/unemployment/us/

    Wow, those are some pretty big conclusions you are jumping to. In fact you or I don't know what would happen. It sure would be better then a shooting civil war. I think you would agree with that.

    You have no proof that the consequences would be all bad. It just may work out better. We can not know unless it actually happens.

    Two points.

    1) My entire thesis during this discussion is: It would be better to have a peaceful split then another civil war. The way the political discord is going we may get there eventually. Remember your president said to "vote for revenge" those are his words not mine. Revenge, really, that really brings people together.

    2) I agree, it is not going to happen, but it has been a lively discussion.
     
  13. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Jud:

    Regarding thesis, where have you seen the beginnings of a civil war? Would you actually contemplate killing somebody because the President is a democrat? That is the conclusion that does not make any sense whatsoever. The split in this country has been between 40 and 60% since the Civil War. Ow that is it closer to 49 - 51 you somehow equate that to Civil War?

    12 million unemployed. Where was the RNC when those 12 million were heading to 50 million before the Government stepped in to stop the bleeding in 2009?

    The discourse on the political front is as shown as one party trying to oust the President at yours and my expense.

    The head of the Senate stated that his top political priority after the 2010 elections was to deny President Obama a second term, this individual and the entire GOP was not thinking about helping America and or any of its citizens move past the worst economic catastrophe since the Great Depression but instead attempted to improve his own and his party's standing at the expense of more than 300,000,000 American's.

    He continues to espouse those same views in a prepared statement released just minutes after the Presidents victory speech the other night. Too bad KY does not recognize the damage this guy caused to both their state and the rest of the country with the obstructionist actions at all of our expense.

    U.S. Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell (Kentucky - R)

    [flash]http://www.youtube.com/v/W-A09a_gHJc?version=3[/flash]

    Look at it another way. If your priority was to oust the President of the United States over providing for your families current and future needs, do you really think your wife would stand for it for even a week? That is what this guy did.

    Wayne
     
  14. bestmapman

    bestmapman Fighting untruth and misinformation

    Again, your jumping to conclusions. It isn't about the percentages, it is about the discord. No, I don't contemplate killing someone, but don't you agree that the vitriol is getting worse and worse. If it continues to get worse it will eventually result in conflict. That is what I am saying.

    If the government was able to step in and stop the bleeding, why didn't the government step in more and just solve it. Why doesn't the government step in further now and we could have 100% employment. You continue to make this argument that the Obama saved us from doom. I think his spending and policies have delayed the recovery not hastened it. You have no proof, just conjecture or your opinion that we were headed for 50 million unemployed.

    And that is the source of the discord. So the dems don't participate in the discord. Surely you don't think that. It is getting worse and worse on both side.

    And you don't think it is the same on the Dem side. It is at least equal on the dem side. You make my point. Politics it getting more and more contentious. It keeps getting worse and if something is not done to stop it, it will lead to conflict I fear. So a dissolution would be better than that.
     
  15. bestmapman

    bestmapman Fighting untruth and misinformation

    At this point I am going to bed and I pass the baton to anyone who wished to continue the discussion tonight.
     
  16. ALS

    ALS Super Moderator Staff Member

    With 20 petitions it sounds like a lot until you realize that not one of these petitions has more than 20K signatures. If we start seeing 100K, 250K or more signatures per state petition then start worrying.

    I've been involved at a few pro-gun rallies or protests at the local and state level. When there is a significant number or people who show up at these protests, politicians have a come to Jesus moment. I went to one in the city where I over heard the Chief of the Pittsburgh Police at the time lean over the President of the City Council and said you better rethink your proposal. The numbers we are seeing are at least five to one against you.

    In another case back in the mid 1990's the Pa. state police said at the time we were the largest number of people they had ever seen to show up protesting any bill at the Capital building. The bill up for consideration was dropped like a hot potato shortly afterward.

    It would be like someone sending in a petition from Pa. with 15K signatures.

    Big freaking deal, with a population of 12,300,000 residents that is only representing .122 percent of the state. If they get a petition with 375K or 500K or even 650K signatures it starts to be a Houston we have a big problem moment.

    If you're getting signed petitions that represent three, four or even five percent of the population, start getting very nervous. Remember this country won its independence from England with only 3% of the population involved in the actual fighting.

    Three to five percent of the country is 9.3 to 15.5 million people. If they start seriously taking steps to secede from the United States you know the powers that be in Washington are going to sit up and take notice real quick.

    We're not Europe where you can scare up a quick 500K people on any given weekend for a good old in the street and in you face protest. Americans just don't do things like that unless they are very provoked as in the Vietnam war protests of the 1960's.
     
  17. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Jud:
    You are making the point of making it worse with vitriol by asking for a split of the US when we are the US when the percentages are minuscule.
    The Government can only buy so many AIGs, back stop so many Merrill Lynches, Lehman Brothers and continue to operate when tax cuts for the top 1% reduced revenues by $4.6 Trillion over the last decade. Those tax cuts did not generate anything as the tax rates are currently at the lowest point in history and like you said where are the jobs? The wealthiest 1% are still well endowed and demand to take even more. $4.6 Trillion $’s in tax cuts for the wealthiest American’s and where did it go?

    If you have even the slightest inkling about the Great Depression, start reading about it. It was Credit contraction on a scale never before seen and the Governments first two years of reaction was pull back spending when in fact they were the only ones that could spend.

    Bernanke did not want that to occur on his watch so opened up the taps. 0% to the banks , takeover of Freddie and Fannie and GM/Chrysler bailouts.

    When the private sector froze, it was the Government that was the last resort and they were asked to do this over a few weeks time with no legal means or even methods to do such a thing.
    Again you may not have any concept of 25 to 30% unemployment. You can read any major economists treatise on what occurred over a 4-day period in late 2008 to know we were headed for financial Armageddon far worse than the 1920's. Bernanke, Paulson and Geithner were at Ground 0. When GE's CEO called Paulson and said he was having trouble borrowing "any money" to keep his operation open, that means instant bankruptcy for GE let alone the hundreds of thousands of companies that rely on GE Credit. The Public sector was locked.

    On the Brink: Inside the Race to Stop the Collapse of the Global Financial System by Henry Pauslon himself if you need more convincing. He was CEO of Goldman Sachs for almost a decade and he was caught way off guard.

    Not at all. Find a Democrat in congress saying that the earth is only at a maximum 9,000 years old. You have told me yourself its much older than that.

    Another saying Rape is god’s will and yet another saying rape victims have a way of stopping their own pregnancy. These were Republicans in congress.

    I see the Tea Party backers and fringe Republican's doing the evening news pumping up discourse for the past 6-months. I am sure you saw the same in your state. If you allow the fringe to control your actions and ideas, you are not in control of your own destiny.

    Wayne
     
  18. Indigo

    Indigo Witch with wry sense of humor

    I predict that of the 20 states that have petitioned for removal from the United States, you will likely see Texas Texas, Louisiana, and Mississippi actually withdraw from America and start their own theocratic government.. on the bright side, since they will re Institute slavery, they will have cheap labor costs.
     
  19. ALS

    ALS Super Moderator Staff Member

    Indigo just a little history lesson for you,

    The first Black U.S. Senator was a Republican
    The Republicans started the NAACP
    The Filibuster was created by the Democrats to
    stop passage of any equal rights proposals in the 1940's
    The Republicans Voted over 80% for the Civil rights act, while the Democrats only came through with a little over 60%. After the vote LBJ invited the Republicans to the White House to thank them for supporting the bill, the Democrats were not invited.

    Martin Luther King was a Republican.

    Finally When LBJ signed the Civil rights act do you what he said? He said we'll have those Ni**** voting democrat for the next 100 years.

    So the home work assignment for the liberals on the board is to look up "Cloward–Piven strategy"

    Because the mess that cause the last down turn is now being put on steroids by this Administration in the second term. Later today I'll post a piece on some the new banking regulations that will make the crap that caused this recession look like child's play.
     
  20. Indigo

    Indigo Witch with wry sense of humor

    Surely you noticed that the GOP is no longer the party of civil rights.
     

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