Sustainable zoom-zoom

Discussion in 'Mazda' started by seftonm, Aug 26, 2009.

  1. seftonm

    seftonm Veteran Staff Member

    [​IMG] The Japanese upstart is hoping its Mazda2 will repeat the Canadian success of its wildly popular Mazda3 and keep Toyota and Honda on their toes

    [FIMG=LEFT]http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/2008_WCOTY_-_MAZDA2_Demio.jpg[/FIMG]Jeremy Cato - THEGLOBEANDMAIL - Agust 21, 2009

    A very nice subcompact and a relative of the Ford Fiesta. If only they could bring over the diesel version as well. --Ed.

    There was, apparently, some measure of satisfaction and a large dollop of surprise when The Globe and Mail broke the news in April that the Mazda2 subcompact would be coming to Canada – perhaps as early as next year.

    Insiders at Mazda Canada had been pushing to get the slick little city runabout for some time. While no one would go on the record, Mazda Canada officials made it clear that they would love to add the Mazda2 to their lineup – if they could price it right so as not to compete against the Mazda3.

    So the Mazda2 is coming. The prediction here is that it will be a huge success in Canada. After all, subcompacts and compacts make up half the Canadian market. We buy small cars in big numbers.

    Apparently, Mazda Motor Corp. president and chief executive officer Takashi Yamanouchi had enough of the equivocating and waffling and worrying that had been dominating discussions among the sales and marketing staffs at Mazda, both here in North America and in Japan.

    “I've just decided,” Yamanouchi, a 42-year veteran of Mazda who assumed the top job last November, said at the New York Auto Show. ... [RM]http://www.theglobeandmail.com/auto/sustainable-zoom-zoom/article1257065/[/RM]
     
  2. BailOut

    BailOut My favorite holiday is Earth Day!

    While this is ultimately good news there is nothing "sustainable" about a gasoline-burning car. :rolleyes:
     
  3. echoman

    echoman Well-Known Member

    Good looking car, and so is the ford. But it drives me crazy when I read " If only they could bring over the diesel version as well." in alot of articles. I love diesels and I think given enough time I think they could do really well over here. I think Quebec would love them.
     
  4. WriConsult

    WriConsult Super Moderator

    Great, if the Mz2 comes to Canada it will most likely come to the US too, since the certification rules are very similar between the countries -- and Mazda is finally sounding interested in boosting its CAFE numbers.

    (And in the event it is only offered in Canada and not the US, for those who REALLY want a Mazda2 in the US it is relatively feasible to import Canadian vehicles).
     
  5. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Mike:

    ___That Jeremy is a heck of an auto writer. Probably Canada's best from all the links we have read from here and I hope I get to meet him someday.

    ___Regarding the Mazda2, I was such big fan when it was first released in Europe and Australia but after seeing the gearing issue of the MT’s, WTF is about the only thing I can add for the umpteenth time. If Canada receives the same tranny’s, this wonderful sub-compact is completely wasted :( Even Mazda's 1.4L Diesel in Europe is an also ran by comparison to the super diesels from Ford, Peugeot, VW and of course BMW as of late.

    ___Good Luck

    ___Wayne
     
  6. aca2983

    aca2983 Well-Known Member

    As a 4 time Mazda owner, I was very excited about the Mazda2, then disappointed (but not surprised) when the word was that it would not be offered in the US market.

    I think I'm over that now.....

    I'm pretty sure I like the Fiesta better.
     
  7. WriConsult

    WriConsult Super Moderator

    Wayne, any hope that Mazda would consider in bringing over 6MT trannys with decent top-end gearing? Or are they going the way of other automakers and focusing all their efforts on ATs that they can charge more for?

    Also, I'm sure hoping 4 or preferably 5 door versions would be offered. Pics show the 3 door, but the article doesn't appear to mention anything either way.
     
  8. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Dan:

    ___We can hope but I suspect Mazda is going to steer clear of the US with the 2 due to the Fiesta launch coming next year. Mazda will have to do quite a bit of "fixing" over the next few years to move up the FE rankings as most of what they offer today is middling within their respective segments.

    ___About that Fiesta... It could fail too! If Ford allows an almost unchanged 1.6L (gasoline engine) out of Europe with the same “performance stupid” short gearing, it will be an also ran vs. the 40 + mpg capable EcoBoosted 1.6 we keep hearing rumors about.

    ___Yet another OT note of contention... I do wish Canada would follow the EU emissions standard lead instead of ours. I am all for tight emissions but to remove the inexpensive fuel misers at the expense of the country and our addictions seems almost criminal :( Can you imagine the FE potential of those European SuperDiesels in the hands of our Canadian brethren?

    ___Good God and I can almost guarantee that it would shame the US into doing something about it :rolleyes:

    ___Wayne
     
  9. seftonm

    seftonm Veteran Staff Member

    That's too bad about the gearing. If the European Mazda2 already has the stupidly short performance gears, then sadly I expect that something similar is in store for us :(

    If only we could have the EU emissions regulations here... Canadians seem more willing to buy diesels than Americans. The costs of making diesels meet EPA regulations have no doubt killed many diesel plans, and I hate to see that happen.
     
  10. WriConsult

    WriConsult Super Moderator

    Although US and Canadian regs are usually pretty close to each other (in part to create a single overall market and allow cross-registration as people move across the border), I don't think it's true that Canadian emissions regs are formally pegged to ours.

    When the TDIs got forced out of the US market in '06 or so, they were still available in Canada. We seriously considered going up to Vancouver to get a TDI Jetta wagon a couple of years ago. We didn't do it because USD and CAD were around parity at the time, but at about CAD$27k (at the time) it could have been a really good deal under what has historically been a much more favorable exchange rate. We checked with our DMV and were told that we could bring in the car and register it here as long as we obtained a mfr's certificate that the car was certified for use in North America. We didn't check into import duties, so that might have tripped us up but I would think those would be minimal in the post-NAFTA world. Anyway, so I'm not sure what's keeping the Euro diesels out of Canada, other than the mfrs maybe saying it's not worth the trouble for a market of 30M consumers.
     
  11. psyshack

    psyshack He who posts articles

    To shoot car down over gearing only is stupid. There is more to car than mpg. I love my mazda3. While it may be weak concerning mpg. IMHO it's a better car than our 06 civic ex and the hchii. So it gives up some mpg. It does a lot more right.

    I'm sure ford will ruin the american version just like they have done with focus. Why anybody would buy a focus over mz3i,,, I havent a clue.
     
  12. worthywads

    worthywads Don't Feel Like Satan, I am to AAA

    That's a reason I put "sustainable" as a word that I hate in the Word/Phrases you hate thread. Very little is truly sustainable.
     
  13. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Jeff:

    ___What is the difference between an exact ratioed 5-speed and driving a 6-speed in fourth with the exact same ratio? It is an MPG waste yet the performance is still there. Gearing is all about mpg and when gas is $4.50 plus, its the difference between getting 35 in your 3 and 60 in the HCH-II. Smart, not dumb let alone driving a buzz-bomb down the road at 60 mph when you could be driving a vehicle that runs like a much more luxurious, quiet and more comfortable anything. The AT’s in these vehicles are geared tall yet the MT’s are stupid geared.

    ___Good Luck

    ___Wayne
     
  14. Right Lane Cruiser

    Right Lane Cruiser Penguin of Notagascar

    I'd take a BEV Focus over any Mazda. ;)
     
  15. psyshack

    psyshack He who posts articles

    I disagree in spades. The MZ3 can get very good mpg when driven right. And also out do most in it price range and higher in comfort, over all handling.

    Yep there are trade off's. But to date I've not driven one mpg getter that does not all but throw out the baby with the bath water for the quest of base mpg.

    If I had it to do all over again. I would have bought a MZ3i over the R18 Civic.

    For me there is more to a car purchase that mpg. While important,,, it's not the bottom line. The HCHII is boring to drive it's a kin to sleeping. Lots of trade off for shm and samba. :)

    I can order and install a higher 5th gear for the MZ3. But is 200 rpm less really worth it? And it's bone idle easy to install. If it was 400 rpm,,, maybe it would be worth it. But either way,,,, the ratios of the 5MT are not a deal breaker for me.
     
  16. psyshack

    psyshack He who posts articles

    I would like a electric car. But they have to get the range up to something useful and they have to quick recharge. Until then,,, won't be one here.
     
  17. seftonm

    seftonm Veteran Staff Member

    Hi Dan, I believe we had the same emissions regulations in 2006 and 2007 as the USA. The US got the TDI in 2006 but not 2007, as did we. Dealers that had TDI's here after they disappeared from the US probably stockpiled them or something like that. Our emissions regulations probably aren't formally pegged to yours, but they are probably very similar for the sake of convenience.

    Personally, Jeff, I think a transmission could be geared for performance in lower gears but still have great gearing in the top gears for fuel economy. The performance in low gears should be enough to satisfy the gearheads, and the quiet and efficient operation on the highway in top gear is a huge advantage in my books. Having the engine scream down the highway in top gear makes no sense, and if somebody really needs the thrust, they can always downshift.
     
  18. WriConsult

    WriConsult Super Moderator

    Mike, you sure? I could swear I still saw TDIs on the vw.ca website more than a year after they disappeared from the US. Interestingly, IIRC the TDI appeared to be the only engine they offered in the Jetta Wagon at the time.

    No kidding. How lazy do they think we are? Apparently the automakers think the 3% of American consumers who still buy MTs are too lazy to shift. WTF.

    I agree Jeff, for 200 rpm it's not worth the trouble to install a taller top gear, but for 400 rpm it probably would. On tdiclub a lot of folks have done it on their TDIs -- there are two different taller 5th-gear ratios that are easily available. I'd go for it on the Golf if we regularly drove 70+ like those guys, but there's not much point for me since I rarely exceed 60mph, which is just 2150 rpm. On the Jetta I may eventually do it since I'm turning 2900 at 60mph with the gasser. That car should easily be good for 40+ on roadtrips even with the thirsty 2.0 and it does great at parkway speeds, but the gearing clobbers it on the freeway.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2009
  19. seftonm

    seftonm Veteran Staff Member

    Hi Dan, I'm almost positive. The US and Canada both got TDI's for 2006. Looking through the Canadian fuel consumption guide, it seems that there are no TDI's in 2007. The vw.ca website may have been a bit slow in updating, or maybe they were still advertising 2006's long after the 2007's came out?
     
  20. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Dan and Mike:

    ___Regarding 06 TDI's, VW dealers were encouraged to stock up on 06's and sell them well into 07 as they knew there would be no more after January 1, 2007.

    ___Regarding the Mazda2, to bad about the short gearing (if they bring it over so equipped) because the lightweight, high strength platform as used in the Fiesta variants (including the super miserly ECOnetic) overseas is an excellent handler and really lightweight for a pre-09 EuroNCAP 5 star car.

    ___We can only hope for the best with a stick that is as tall geared as the AT's.

    ___Good Luck

    ___Wayne
     

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