'09 FEH Techniques

Discussion in 'Ford Hybrids' started by GaryG, May 21, 2009.

  1. GaryG

    GaryG Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the replies guys! Kyle is finishing Finals in 12th grade now but when he gets a break we will start with a segment on warn-up P&G and P&G in EV under 40mph. Will see how that goes with the help with your feedback and go from there.

    Rick, you know I don't get the cold weather like you do but I'll show you how I get my pack warm on a cold day using the brake pedal for regen. There are a lot of advantages in rolling hills so I will try and get Kyle to edit the video of the '07 MPG Challenge in Debbie Katz '05 FEH and try to explain what I was doing in the shots.

  2. GaryG

    GaryG Well-Known Member

    Since I figured out the new '09 FWD FEH P&G technique 9 tanks ago (10/27/09) which is 6,982.4 miles, I burned 122.337 gallons of gas. This represents an average 57.07mpg 775.822 mile tank. This also puts the '09 FEH at 175.5% of EPA during this 8 month period.

    Not bad for a Hybrid running E10 and I now think my mileage won't be effected by this summer's heat here.

  3. GaryG

    GaryG Well-Known Member

    Today, I got my Son to do a short video with me driving that some of you wanted me to do. This was from a cold start and it takes you through my normal route from Jupiter to downtown WPB where I pick-up and drop-off work at the PB County Courthouse. The plan was to drive with my Son 10 - 15 minutes filming to put on Youtube and drop him Off with a friend along the way to get back home. I had many stops to make today and I didn't want to waste his day. We ran into high winds and rain and it was too dark in the '09 FEH to see the SGIIs but I thought I would post it raw and unedited to get feedback. Look at the video if you want and tell me what you would like to see and if you want me to continue doing videos of the techniques I use everyday on my commute.

    My SGII is set with a Tank Off-Set of 13 and the engine size is now set at 3.5L instead of 2.5L. The SGII now seems to be set to give me the exact MPG with the gallons I pump into the tank at fill-up. Note that my lifetime mileage and my trip OD match with my last Mileage Log entry. This tank should give me a 52.2 LMPG average with 160.5% of combined City/Highway EPA of 32.5mpg for the '09 FWD FEH.

    Youtube has a time limit of the video you can view at a time so I'll post as much of what Kyle filmed today before I let him Off. There will be Part 1 and Part 2 of Hypermiling The FEH because there is a little over 16 minutes of video.



  4. rdprice64

    rdprice64 Still Learning

    Great videos Gary! I am glad to see that my warm-up is very similar to yours, except there is no way that I can go EV after just 1 mile. It takes closer to 2.5 for my '07.

    It seems that you do very little EV driving, is that right? I'm trying to figure out where your SoC goes if it is not propulsion? The main difference that I noticed is that I use some SoC from a red light to get up to 20-25 mph before blipping the ICE, where as you were doing that as you first take off from the light.

    I do like that you are describing each action as you take it. The only thing that would make it better for me is to be able to have a synchronized camera focused on your feet while the other camera was shooting from the backseat. I think that is where my biggest disconnect is when I am driving my FEH.

    Thanks again for sharing this.
  5. GaryG

    GaryG Well-Known Member

    Hi Rob and thanks

    Kyle ran out of space on the camera hard drive just as I as started burning off the SoC I built down the bridge and pulsing. He cleared some space and started filming again but that segment was lost. As I started building SoC again with repeated P&G, I did do another burn off of SoC on the beach road with the CC On at 30mph which is on the video. These are typical short EV burns from 45- 46% SoC down to 44.2% SoC and then I go into a EV glide in neutral down to 23-25mph depending on traffic behind me. The reason I shift to neutral at 44.2% is because CC is canceled but the SoC continues to drop in neutral to about 43.8% during the glide. At this point I'm near 25mph and shift back to "D" and start the engine with an accelerator blip and pulse back to my target speed. If CarlD had not discovered the accelerator blip, too much SoC would burn up on the automatic restart and I wouldn't be getting this much SoC build-up during P&G. Of course all I have to do in the '09 is let off the gas pedal to go EV or fuel-cut (DFSO).

    I do just like you from a stop and accelerate in EV in my '05 FEH but the '09 is heavier and the 2.5L is more efficient from a stop than the 2.3L. It's all about battery management and I just find that building the SoC in the '09 from a stop is much more efficient than burning it Off with EV acceleration. Whenever I need to accelerate in EV at any speed, I do an accelerator blip and use the 2.5L engine power. The traffic behind me gets a better deal also because I do reasonable take-offs under engine power. Once I get to my target speed, I go EV, shift to neutral for a short glide and then hold a steady state speed in EV and CC till I get down to 44.2% SoC and then finish my glide in neutral. I keep the SoC on the low side as I told Sean so the generator can pump SoC faster in the battery during acceleration.

  6. GaryG

    GaryG Well-Known Member

    After putting two new tires on the front my '09 FEH, I seen right away the roll resistance increased enough to drop my mileage ~2 - 3mpg. These Michelin Latitude tires were exactly the same I replaced with about 50% wear. I put the older tires and lighter weight '05 FEH rims on my '09 FEH and seen roll resistances decrease right away. Right now I'm seeing the best tank ever in my '09 FEH which I think will end up between 63 - 64mpg.

    The good news is that as the tires continue to wear down, I know I can expect even better MPG. Now I really respect Wayne's reviews with new cars with new tires. I thought it took about 16,000 to fully break-in my FEH's, and now I know it was the tires breaking-in and getting lighter.

  7. GaryG

    GaryG Well-Known Member

    The lighter tires and rims just proved to increase my mileage. Best tank now at 63.4mpg going 862.4 miles on 13.6 gallons of E10.

  8. DavidMVA

    DavidMVA Member

    Hello there,

    I'm now in the middle of my first winter with my first hybrid (FEH).
    I mostly do city driving, and I nearly got 44 MPG back in September.
    Right now, I'm down to 33-35 MPG per tank.
    Headlights are on all the time, and outside temp is in the low 30s all the time, with nights going down in the low 20s.
    Getting the FEH to go to EV is getting really hard, and even sometimes, after a long stop at at traffic light, I don't get regen from the brakes (I guess it's just too cold) until I got the ICE running for a little while again.

    I mostly do 5-miles trips, with lots of stop-and-go (I don't run though stop signs, a ticket would ruin all savings from a higher MPG), and lots of longs traffic lights.

    Any winter experience to share ?

  9. rdprice64

    rdprice64 Still Learning

    Hi David, Welcome to CleanMPG!

    Winters can make it difficult to get good MPG (see the log in my signature), but there are a few things that can help. These are the things that work for my '07 FEH, so I hope they help you as well:
    1. Block your grill. Click here to see how, including pictures It is best to monitor your water temperature when blocking your grill. I do that with a Scangauge. It has many other uses as well as you will see by reading the other posts here at CleanMPG.
    2. Use an Engine Block Heater. Some FEHs have them installed at the factory. If your FEH has one, the plug would most likely be behind the grill and is often tucked away, so it may be hard to see. If you put on a grill block (in #1) you may see it then. Mine did not come with one from the factory and I am told that is because of how far south I live, perhaps you will be luckier.
    3. When you first start you FEH in the cold, start driving as soon as possible, By gentlly driving it, the engine will heat up sooner than if you idle it.
    4. Run the heater as little as possible. It steals heat from the engine and when the water temp in the engine drops below 132F (in the '07), the ICE kicks on to heat it back up. This may be why you are not getting into EV mode. Plus if you are only going 5 miles, the cabin is not going to heat up much anyway.
    5. Around here we use the term, DWG, Driving With Gloves ;). A scarf helps too, because it can keep the moisture from your breath away from the windshield, which means that you would need your defroster less.
    The technology in your '10 FEH being newer may mean that you need to tweak these ideas to better work for you, but the basic concept is to keep the engine as warm possible as soon as possible.

    Hope that helps!
  10. DavidMVA

    DavidMVA Member

    I'm using the DWG technique when I drive alone. My wife goes nuts without the heater. Her point is that instead of driving in a $30K hybrid without the heater, I just could drive her '96 Corolla whose heater is acting up...

    No block heater on my FEH either.
  11. DavidMVA

    DavidMVA Member

    I finally equipped my FEH with a scan gauge, and I got confirmation of what I had already noticed in the past months. I get better fuel economy on highways than in the city!
    I think this is because when I drive around here in city traffic, I don't have many opportunities to drive at constant speeds. Basically I either accelerate or slow down, and traffic is packed at commute times. Accelerating on EV alone is simply not possible around caffeinated drivers in powerful V6 or V8 engines. This is aggravated by the fact that roads go up and down quite a bit (EV gives up going up hill).
    By contrast, when I need to drive on a highway, I end up driving in calmer traffic with less traffic lights and stop signs.

    My task for next week is to find another commute route, maybe a longer path would use less gas.

    I was wondering from the various posts I've seen about why the SoC needs to be kept in such a small range. Wouldn't it make sense to have a smaller battery then? Batteries are expensive and heavy, so why is it that we need to keep SoC in a range between 46 and 60 ?
    If I have 46% SoC, that seems like more than enough energy, so why is the ICE starting to recharge the battery at such a high level ?
  12. Right Lane Cruiser

    Right Lane Cruiser Penguin of Notagascar

    David, the reason is that large swings in state of charge capacity are bad for longevity of NiMH batteries. They last much longer if kept in a small range of total capacity. For this reason they are sized considerably larger than "necessary" — that way the percentage usage can be small while still giving sufficient power to be useful.
  13. DavidMVA

    DavidMVA Member

    I'm trying to configure XGauge on my sgii to display the "traction battery temp". I tried the settings from the XGauge commands manual, but it does not work on my 2010 FEH.
    XGauge works for SOC, so I guess the XGauge manual has a typo somewhere, listed values no longer apply to the 2010 FEH.

    Does any of you get a battery temp reading ?


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