Veggie-oil vehicle owners in a legal pickle

So the Feds can't make a serious effort to increase fuel economy regs, but they have plenty of time to prosecute those who want to do something about it on their own. Some system.

 

I suspect that Governments are planning ways to tax PHEV's and EV's, don't worry they'll figure out a way.

 

If you are smart, don't tell anyone you running Svo or Wvo.

 

Same thing was in the news about 2 years ago in Britain.

States fund the upkeep of roads via fuel taxes, so basically the argument (in the eyes of some) is tax evasion.

Hybrid and alt fuel vehicles have been getting subsidies in the form of tax breaks and HOV preferences.

Everyone thinks they're entitled to a tax break, but eventually the tax man will catch up one way or another.

For now I would just don't ask don't tell.

 

good advice

 

I wonder if they are going around prosecuting the owners of Stanley, White, Doble, and other antique steamcars for not paying fuel taxes on the kerosene and white gas their steamers burn.

 

This is why I oppose any top-down measures to reduce oil consumption.

Regulatory bureaucrats are people who cannot get a job anywhere else.

As for the law itself, SCOTUS justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr. summed it up pithily: "Sometimes, the law is an a**."

Think about this anytime you feel like advocating new federal statutes or regs.

 

maybe they are seeing a trend towards those fuels and are afraid of the future ( a lot of cars running on wvo/svo and no money for them )

 

Hi All,

I remember a quotation from a long time ago "Render unto Ceaser...". This certainly applies to motor fuel taxes. The roads just do not grow out of the ground on their own.

The real problem is the slow action by states to reduce the onerous excessive level of securities involved. This is not a service provided by a comercial entrerprise to the general public. Its simply personal initiative. Put some line on yearly Income Tax form alright already. Example:

Xa Have you powered a non-commercial passenger motor vehicle on the public roadways with untaxed fuel Y/N
Xb What is the weight of that vehicle _______ lbs
Xc How Many Miles was this vehicle operated within the State of XX on untaxed fuel ______Miles
Xd If Line Xa is Y, then multiply Xb by Xc and enter value here ____________ lbs-miles

Xe Multiply Line Xd by .0000024 and enter road tax here $ _____.__


Simple eh ? How come our congress people do not get this ? The .0000024 is based on a 24 Cent per Gallon, and a 2000 lbs car getting 50 mpg on Diesel it would have burned otherwise.

 

So, why don't they simply come up with an exemption for home-made production, like they did for wine and beer? They get a well deserved black eye for such a stance.

It will never amount to such a high number of individuals that it will even matter - we will run out of such used oils when the demand increases, and restaurants will start charging.

Give these few individuals a break, they are part of the solution, and the government is not here to help you. Their revenues are decreasing. To maintain status quo, government must tax at a higher rate. Chevy can close a factory, the government can't close down a division without transferring everyone to another cash cow.

If they want to tax the used oil, go ahead. Charge them a nickle for every dollar of used vegetable oil they BUY and have a RECEIPT for.

And as for "If you are smart, don't tell anyone you running Svo or Wvo." They will just trace down the scent of automobiles that smell like french fries. Gotcha.

 

Hi Kwj,

Its not used oil that is being taxed. Its the rolling of a vehicle over the public thoroughfares.

I agree they are being treated like criminals. But in my first post it illustrates the very simple, easy to way the government can be compensated for supplying the common infrastructure, the SVO not go to waste, AND CO2 emissions be avoided. Its not even a break to not for the government to not require individual SVO usage to be bonded, its mearly a fact that they are not selling it, buying it, merely turning what would be water polution into nega-CO2 emissions, that the government has no standing to require the bond. But they go about demanding it anyway.

The way they are being treated is illegal I think. By denying people making their own fuel, they maintain a monopoly of fuel. Which is a trust. They are in trust with professional fuel manufacturers and distributors.

 

Smacks of the ol' Whiskey Rebellion we all read about in History, doesn't it.

Still, 24 cents per gallon of free vegetable oil is, what, about a 95% discount off of retail desiel. File the forms, pay the tax and STILL be able to thumb your nose at us dumb S.O.B.s still paying full price. . .sounds like a bargain to me.

 

Precisely right. If you invest in your own equipment - exemption for fuel made for your own use.

 

There are several solutions to this problem of the government and state not getting their taxes. One would be to enact a tax break for these cars and fuels. There probably is not enough used vegetable oil out there to have it be a problem. The EPA should also do a study of the variation of vegetable oil pollution and see if it really is a problem in the grand scheme of things. We need effective politicians to work this out. Alternative fuels should be encouraged. However, people who use public roads should somehow pay for the upkeep of the roads at some point.

A similar problem exists with states not being able to collect taxes on Internet sales outside of their own states. States were counting on this tax money to pay for services. In NY, there is an optional box in your state Income Tax form where you can pay $56 for small non taxed catalog and Internet purchases. This makes it easy to abide by the law and is not too expensive. A similar approach could be used for vegetable automotive fuels.

 

Hi Donee, I'm not trying to argue, but you said "Its not used oil that is being taxed. Its the rolling of a vehicle over the public thoroughfares."

That is paid for by the vehicle purchase tax, the annual value tax, the license, the registration, the tickets, and the Driver's license test and constant renewals. Letting a few thousand vegetable fuel drivers avoid just the commercial fuel tax wouldn't break us, AND, it would save on Diesel fuel use. What is the true loss there?

It is self limiting, and when the demand is high, there will be a dollar cost. At that time, get a receipt and pay tax at the point of sale. Simple.

 

Hi Kwj,

The license and registration may pay to help improve the infrastruture capacity, but its not going to pay for ongoing maintenance. It can not. Some cars are on the road for 200K miles, and some for only 80 K miles before they go to the junk yard. There is just not anyway to guess how long, and being safely above the money required for the complete road damage caused by the lifetime of a vehicle's operation, would be onerous to new car purchasers. Are you ready for a $10K license fee ? I think not.

Driver's license fees here are modest. I just got my reup and its $15.00. This seems to be mearly the administrative cost.

Vehicle License fees are more costly, but still, I cannot see my car doing only $80 in road work a year.

Not sure what an anual Value Tax is. Is that like the CT vehicle property tax? We do not have those here, or in most midwestern states.

The problem with letting a few thousand SVO people off, is that sooner or later its a few 10's of thousands, then 100's of thousands and the flegling Biodiesel people go out of buisness. What I posted is simple and straightforward.

The real crime is treating these people as if they are retail distributors, and not industrious individuals that by their actions are benefiting society, and themselves.

 

"ongoing maintenance."??? That's a joke right?

Maybe folks don't realize we are all over a barrel.. The people selling the oil know that they
can charge anything they want to. Gas at $20 a gallon in August 08 could actually happen..

I think everyone knows it's going to be $20 a gallon at some point. It's just a matter of time.

Anyways, we are already seeing a drop in traffic flow all over America. And it's going to keep dropping as the price of gas increases.
Sadly, as the demand for gas falls off.. There will still be plenty of buyers (They HAVE to have gas). And so long as there are buyers,
the sellers can keep increasing their prices to maintain their massive incomes.

My point is, with traffic falling off daily.. Soon we won't need 8 lane highways..
We can do up-keep on 4 lanes and put solar panels on the rest

 

anything new ?