New Ford Escape Hybrid – Glide technique…

Discussion in 'Ford Hybrids' started by xcel, Jun 27, 2008.

  1. Jimmydreams

    Jimmydreams Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the response, Dan.

    I've been using Neutral mostly when I glide, and that has helped immensely, especially since San Diego is pretty hilly. The engine stays on over 40mph, and after reading that Ford has methods of monitoring past vehicle usage to void warranties, well, I won't be turning off the engine during my coasting.

    Increasing the pressure in my tires made a BIG difference!

    Now I need to decide whether or not to get a SG-II.


    (also, I'm sure there's a FAQ for it, but how do you get the 'signature box' that has your MPG data for 3mo/6mo/lifetime??)
  2. Right Lane Cruiser

    Right Lane Cruiser Penguin of Notagascar

    Welcome, Jimmy!

    Check out the link in my signature for a collection of good informational links... including one on how to set up that mileage banner in your signature. :)
  3. rmcmast

    rmcmast Well-Known Member

    Welcome to CleanMPG and congrats on the 2009 FEH! We traded our 2007 FEH FWD in for a 2009 FEH Limited FWD in February and really love it.

    There is no need to turn off the engine over 40mph anyway since most of the time you will get fuel-cut when coasting in D. FEH's before the 2009 did have fuel-cut. I don't coast too often in N when over 40mph since it seems to drain the SoC too much (coasting in N is OK when under 40 in EV though). If I'm reading pretty high I may use N downhill to gain extra momentum, but I know I'm losing SoC when I do. One reason to have an SG II, especially since I do not have the Nav. You can also tell with the SG II when you are getting fuel cut when coasting (LP goes Open Loop and Instant MPG will read 9999mpg).

    When SoC gets below 47 or 46 on the SG II, fuel-cut does not happen for me when coasting. However, one light tap on the brake will get it to kick in.

    -- Rick
  4. Jimmydreams

    Jimmydreams Well-Known Member

    Thanks Cruiser...

    The links got me set on the right track. I hope! :D
  5. Right Lane Cruiser

    Right Lane Cruiser Penguin of Notagascar

    Looks good! :thumbs_up:

    You need to substitute your actual vehicle number for "XXX" in the URL, though. ;)
  6. Jimmydreams

    Jimmydreams Well-Known Member


    I'll have to start watching the SoC when coasting. I'm pretty sure that over 40mph, since the engine is still on anyway, that it's putting a charge into the batteries. I'll have to watch the green arrows on the display a little closer and see what it's doing.

    My significant other drives the car occasionally, and it not concerned about mpg at all....(can you guess who pays the gas bill?). So I can't wait to see what I can do on a complete tank of gas driven only by me! :p

    Thanks for all the info....this is a great site. It's nice to get 400+ miles to a 13 gal tank of fuel compared to my old Ford Explorer, which would get about 260 miles per tank on 18+ gallons!! :eek:

  7. rmcmast

    rmcmast Well-Known Member

    In D this is true. N will cancel regen though (no charge to the battery).
    I'm pretty lucky with my wife. She pulls as good or better numbers than I do! Kinda funny, before we got the 2007 FEH, I used to be a lead foot and would brag about how low my MPG was compared to her in our old Grand Prix GSP. :) That thing took premium gas too (sure glad we don't have that any more)!

    -- Rick
  8. GaryG

    GaryG Well-Known Member

    Hi Jimmy

    The '09 Nav Sys is completely different than prior models and the SoC gauge is also. Most of the time SoC will not go higher than 51% unless you get a lot of regen from the brakes going downhill. The only time you see the SoC go higher than ~60% is when your HV battery gets a recalibration strategy from the PCM. This is rare and the '09 Nav Sys allows you to see the battery go higher than 80% SoC which other models never showed this high SoC reading. The SGII SoC X-gauge will show a better SoC detailed reading in all FEH/MMH models and I highly recommend you get a SGII.

    The '09 FEH Nav Sys reads 4% higher MPG than the actual gas you burn and the SGII can be adjusted to the correct reading. I have two SGII's in my '09 FWD FEH and I would be lost without them now that I know what they can do for my mileage.

    I drive my FEH's differently than Dan and keep my SoC between 40.2% and 42% most of the time for Max EV driving. I find a low SoC charges faster to get back in EV again much sooner. This next year I expect my '09 FEH lifetime average to get to 52mpg which will be 160% of combined EPA using this and other techniques without FAS. Like Rick posted there is no need for FAS in the '09 FEH with instant EV and fuel-cut above 40mph. The SGII can confirm fuel-cut like Rick stated also.

    Warm-up P&G with the engine running and coasting in "D" will provide charging and partial fuel-cut till your FEH is ready for EV and full fuel-cut over 40mph. In cold weather (below 38F) you may need to heat the battery with P&G by coasting in "D" and using brake regen during the glide. The fast charge of regen heats the battery and I found this reduces the time to go EV and charges the battery much quicker. Those hills of yours will help your MPG once you learn DWL and coasting in neutral in EV and "D" for fuel-cut. Don't worry about the SoC getting to low in EV because I just drop the shifter down in "D" and pick-up some regen with the brake pedal to prevent a restart, then back to "N" to finish my glide.

    Good Luck!

  9. Jimmydreams

    Jimmydreams Well-Known Member

    I read in the manual that the HV battery will not be charged while in N, but the nav shows "idle with charge" and the green arrows flowing into the HV while I'm in N coasting down a hill. I guess a SG-II will tell me what's REALLY going on.

    Are the SG's very complicated to figure out, or do you tell it what kind of vehicle you're driving and the rest is pretty much automatic information??

  10. GaryG

    GaryG Well-Known Member

    Over 6mph in "N" the generator/motor (MG1) can charge the battery if it needs a charge while the engine is running. This mode is called "Active Neutral" and you can shut-OFF and restart with the Key in this mode. Under 6mph in "N" MG1 cannot charge with the engine running and cannot be shut-Off and restarted with the Key. This "N" mode is called "Passive Neutral". If you shift to "N" under 6mph the FEH will remain in EV or engine running and not charge the battery till you shift out of "N".

    The only charging in EV mode by regen (MG2) is in "D" in the '09 FEH. Shifting to "L" will restart the engine and take you out of EV.

    The SGII is not that complicated and plugs-in just above the brake pedal in the OBD2 connection with the cable provided. After you play around with it and set it up for the FEH, it is simple to operate with the pre-programmed gauges. You must set up the X-Gauges like SoC, but just follow the directions on their website and ask here if you need any help. Members of CMPG get a great discount so follow the SGII offered on this website for the best pricing.

  11. Jimmydreams

    Jimmydreams Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the info, Gary.

    I'm assuming that if I'm coasting, I'm not harming anything to shift to N? I don't really want to try shutting down the engine when I'm in N, although I may experiment a little with that....but if I'm doing 65mph and atop a long downward slope, N is a great way to go...assuming I'm not slowly eating away at my CVT. :p

    I'll look into getting an SG. I'm a data geek, and more is always better!!! ;) Especially if it'll augment the HEV page on the NAV.

  12. rmcmast

    rmcmast Well-Known Member

    Does charging in N occur only if SoC is low or under a certain point? Usually when I coast in N on the highway I see SoC dropping pretty quickly (which is why I use D most of the time). Usually I'll be in the high 40's or low 50's SoC on the highway.


  13. GaryG

    GaryG Well-Known Member

    Good question! My '05 does not drop SoC and even charges anytime the engine is running and the battery needs a charge above 6mph. What I'm seeing in the '09 is that MG1 stops charging or very little changing is done after 48%. Wayne made a comment in a post that the FFH was also eating up SoC during highway driving and my first thought was the amount of MG1 charging was so low that the 12V system was taking more than MG1 output and the HV battery was being used. The '09 uses much more 12V use and you can really tell it coasting in "N" in EV. Also, there is very little juice coming from regen MG2 in fuel-cut going to the HV battery. I think that's because MG2 is powering MG1 to hold the idle during fuel-cut and the HV battery is providing power to the 12V system.

    It didn't take me long to see that coasting in "N" when the engine was running is bad for MPG in the '09. Notice that my post all now say coast in "N" in EV only and "D" when the engine is running. My comment in my last post was that MG1 can charge the battery in "N" above 6mph with the engine running, but your right, at the upper limits of the SoC it may not be enough to carry the 12V system.

    In my '05 FEH I was able to increase MPG by coasting in "N" on the highway with the engine running and it's still a great technique to get over 40mpg at 65mph. When I got the '09 FEH I stopped that right away in it.

  14. Jimmydreams

    Jimmydreams Well-Known Member

    Ok, Gary....

    Can you give me a 'how to' for increased mpg on the highway? I have a 75 mile rount-trip commute and it's almost all highway. Any walk-thru you can give would help out greatly. Thanks.

  15. GaryG

    GaryG Well-Known Member

    Hi Jimmy,

    First of all you must know how to take advantage of every condition like hills, overpasses, headwinds, crosswinds, tailwinds, weather, traffic and etc.. Second, properly set-up your FEH.. My tires are at 50psi cold, oil is clean 5W-20 and not overfilled, air filter and battery filter are in good shape, and I constantly monitor MPG for any changes and why.

    Highway P&G is great with neutral in prior models but Fuel-cut in "D" seems to be best in the '09 FEH. Your wind and weather dictate the best acceleration (Pulse) Instant MPG rate and you know the glide is in "D" for fuel-cut is also dictated by the wind and weather. All of this is also conditioned on the traffic.

    In other words, you control the reactions to your conditions and there is no set technique that works. They all work as a bag of tricks like tools correcting problems. You have a 35 mile commute both ways which is 70 miles total each day. You have many choices during your trips that many here don't have because it's those short trips that are killing our average. Whenever I get a long trip like yours, I'm happy because I know I'm going to bring up my tank average.

    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 19, 2009

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