A Tesla Killer Enters the Fray – It is Called Ford Mustang Mach-E

Discussion in 'In the News' started by xcel, Nov 18, 2019.

  1. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    Bill , how much battery life would you reckon might be left in a 10-year-old Model S ?

    I love the Model S , even if it is a bit larger than I think a car should be.
     
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  2. litesong

    litesong litesong

    Tesla has to re-write Musk’s first over-generous rules. First, there were too many rich people buying initial Models X & S EVs, that even Musk’s billions couldn’t freely feed rich people’s EVs. Second, too many U-Tubers got too many referrals for FREE Supercharging miles. One U-Tuber, at least, got nearly 2million miles of FREE Supercharger referrals.
    Musk has to have billions of dollars if SpaceX is to land on Mars & establish Mankind as a multi-planet Civilization.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2021
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  3. BillLin

    BillLin PV solar, geothermal HVAC, hybrids and electrics

    I couldn't possibly know the answer. It is probably day-to-day new territory for the older EVs.

    Still, there's hope as long as the battery and rest of the car still functions. On the plus side, there won't be a lack of power even if the battery's instantaneous kW available declines with age given these Model S were over powered to begin with. :D

    Here's one link I found in a quick search. Gives an idea of battery capacity decline.

    https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1110149_tesla-model-s-battery-life-what-the-data-show-so-far

    [​IMG]
     
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  4. litesong

    litesong litesong

    Nice graphs (that have been shown previously). Bet Tesla could piece together a graph determining that ever-increasingly abused battery packs have ever-shortening lives(those dots way under the red curve, including Bjorn Hyland’s & Out-of-Spec’s Tesla EVs?).
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2021
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  5. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Litesong:

    You are speculating way beyond the data sets.

    As it is, Ford is more conservative then Tesla with regards to battery C-Rates and longevity indicating an even more robust system in which to own and drive.

    Wayne
     
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  6. litesong

    litesong litesong

    I’m sure Tesla already has the graph constructs detailing increasing abuse vs. decreasing battery pack life. That’s just simple stuff. Tesla holds its cards close to its chest, because the data must show ever-decreasing battery life vs. increasing USE of Supercharging (which Tesla, itself, warns against). One major reason EVs have increased their popularity, is the vast increase of Super-charging stations……despite decades of warnings that fast charging WILL DAMAGE battery packs. More than increasing EV sales despite EV high prices showing the richness of buyers AND their GRAND DISPOSABLE INCOMES, the certainty of battery pack damage due to Supercharging shows that EV buyers are rich beyond measure TO GLADLY DESTROY THEIR EVs, just so they can get some years of fun out of their toys.

    NOT my speculating on EV data sets, but I do extrapolate the mad desires of rich EV owners to GLADLY DESTROY their own EV assets.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2021
  7. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    The 2021 Ford Mustang MachE GT and GT Performance First Drive...

    Autocrossing the 2021 Ford Mustang MachE GT Peformance


    Wayne
     
  8. litesong

    litesong litesong

    After making an example of the new Ford Mach-e, GT & hard driving in the October thread, about ravenous Mega-Watt gobbling, I note “Out-of-Spec” short speculations on the new GT, Performance Addition. Truly pleased with the GT, Performance Addition, the U-Tuber, a member of a family of long-life adherents to the Ford Mustang, noted that improvements to the thermal managements of the GT, Performance Addition’s battery pack & better regulation between the re-generative braking & friction braking is going to make the Mach-e, GT Performance Addition….. a great addition to Ford’s racing legacy.
    These observations only enhance my fears that racing quality EVs, in the hands of racing fanatics can & may under-cut numerous electric grids around the World, because of the unbridled (if not talented) enthusiasms of World’s wannabee professional racers.
    We ain’t talkin’ Mega-Watt-hr draws on the electrical grids in an afternoon. We may be talking hundreds of Mega-Watt-hr (more?) draw downs!!
    Fossil-fuel car racers are crazy. Fossil-fuel car racers, turning to the hottest EV cars, are seeing a new world of racing opening up to them, & they will be even crazier.

    PS…..The Mach-e has Blue & Yellow-Orange exterior colors that are superior to anything Tesla has for colors & probably beats the colors of the Chevy Bolt………specially after a Bolt fire! :eek: But, the Ford Mach-e & other manufacturers need some strong metal-flake in their paints.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2021
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  9. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Litesong:

    Wannabes like everyone else are stuck in the real world. Flooring it to the next stop light or sign gets old really quick. All in, while the GT and GT Performance are for the power hungry, it is an order of magnitude better than them driving 5.0L V8s and idling away at 18 MPG with 25 mph avg speeds back and forth to work as we are all stuck in.

    A Bevy of 2021 Ford Mustang MachE GTs and GT Performance Variants

    [​IMG]
    At parade rest in San Francisco and ready to roll. ;)

    Wayne
     
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  10. litesong

    litesong litesong

    Since I had concentrated complaints (with oppositions) about Electric grid drawdowns here (with the help of Superchargers), I will continue my complaints against Supercharging in this thread.
    Just saw a U-Tube video from a Ford Mach-e owner who sold their Mach-e after 9 months. They listed many likes AND dislikes. One complaint was about Mach-e Supercharging, which hit me right between the eyes. He pointed out that while Supercharging the Mach-e, the Mach-e not only strongly tapers their Supercharging at the 80% mark, it actually stops Supercharging AND initiates L2 charging for the last 20% of the charge. This procedure was NOT acceptable to the owner, & was one more reason leading to the Mach-e sale.
    I know other manufacturers strongly taper their Supercharging towards the end of the charge cycle, but I don’t know if those manufacturers also stop Supercharging & start L2 charging.

    Anyhow, this bolsters my opinions against Supercharging, even in the first 80% of the charge. EV manufacturers are caught between customer demand for Supercharging AND makers’ knowledge that Supercharging is bad for battery pack longevity. Matter-of-fact, Supercharging is so bad, that manufacturers have to disguise their Supercharging with STRONG tapers of Supercharging……AND to the STRONGEST extent of NOT ANNOUNCING COMPLETE STOPPAGE of Supercharging & the startup of L2 charging after 80% battery charge.
     
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  11. BillLin

    BillLin PV solar, geothermal HVAC, hybrids and electrics

    We cannot do anything about uninformed buyers who end up being disappointed. It is good that the Mach-E then went to someone else.

    I doubt that the DCFC changes to L2 charging, though L2-like charging rates would be entirely expected in the final taper.
     
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  12. RedylC94

    RedylC94 Well-Known Member

    ^^ That makes sense.
     
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  13. litesong

    litesong litesong

    Nah! Foisting off the idea that its owners’ faults, doesn’t wash. What IS the fault is that Li-Ion baby technology is being treated as bullet-proof technology in almost all the many “informational” media. The “informational” media inform us always that they are NOT INFORMATIONAL. All the people who ARE complaining that Supercharging is TOO slow, are made to sound legitimate.
    Li-Ion baby technology, forced to be what it isn’t, by people who think they are experts & are NOT, is kicking back by failing to reach 500,000 miles of use. Abused even more, Li-Ion packs aren’t even reaching 200,000 miles (less?).
    Again, however YOU want to define it, Supercharging is powering down to little more than L2 charging. That’s why hurry-hurry, busy-busy owners are complaining. The manufacturers know a lot more than the owners, who love their EVs…….to their EV deaths.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2021
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  14. Trollbait

    Trollbait Well-Known Member

    Any smart charger will taper the charge at the end, whether for Li-ion or lead acid. Heat is the enemy of battery life. The cells' internal resistance generates heat while charging, and as the state of charge increases, so does that resistance. Without enough cooling, any charger will slow down, even Level 2 will do so when the battery gets hot. In theory, you could fast charge to 100%, but the cost of the cooling system for such limited times of high heat, and the efficiency drain of running such a system just isn't worth it. Slowing down to reduce heat generation is just cheaper.

    If the goal is to spend as little time on the road as possible while on a trip, you don't fast charge to 100%. You just charge to 80%, and get going to your destination or next charger.
    A few years ago, the SAE redefined their EV charging levels. Level 1 and 2 remained as is, but got AC added to the front. Level 3 disappeared, and was replaced with DC Level 1 and 2. Older DC chargers might fall under DC Level 1 rates. Same with the slower Superchargers Tesla has in some locations intended for local use, as oppose to for use on long trips.

    With the high speed AC chargers that might still be around in Europe, and 350kW DC chargers, AC Level 3 and DC Level 3 could be used unofficially.
     
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  15. litesong

    litesong litesong

    For the less expensive Mach-e, at the 80% charge mark, charging power DOES fall to 12kW. That’s why so many people were complaining. As for me, I will love charging at L2 rates, with the 2022 Chevy Bolt OBC of 11.5kW. That is what baby-technology Li-Ion batteries need for longevity.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2021
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  16. litesong

    litesong litesong

    Uhh! Just heard gasoline prices “will continue to increase in 2022”. Also, my hope to buy a 2022 Chevy Bolt EV…….will continue to increase in 2022. :)
     
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  17. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Litesong:

    Have you considered the Ioniq 5 or EV6? Both are vastly superior to the Bolt in every respect. Finding them for a decent price may not be in the cards this year but you never know?

    Wayne
     
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  18. litesong

    litesong litesong

    I agree. Love our 3 Hyundai cars. The Ioniq 5 or EV6 are too big…..& ugly. Never liked the looks of the Hyundai Velocitor(sp?), which the Kia EV6 looks like. Also, I can’t afford any of them.
    Actually, the Chevy Bolt has a long running history of being reliable(for a Chevy), except for the LG batteries & maybe the rear sway bar. My mechanic will fix it! If the 2022 Chevy Bolt starts getting produced again & I can get it cheap….. & cheaper with the union supporting extra $4000 added to the $7500 & $500 rebates, I’m lining up for the Chevy Bolt. Its spectacular that it will have the 11.5kW charger for L2, on which I will heavily rely. I hope Chevy Bolts will return with the FREE L2 home charger again. Other EVs often have the lesser 7.7kW charger.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2022
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