Uber - LYFT Rideshare

Discussion in 'General' started by xcel, Feb 4, 2018.

  1. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    As I was making my way across the country, I was once again documenting other areas under the Lyft platform as Uber went black just 150 miles outside of Chicago. See above.


    Of all the cities visited, this one had my hair on fire due to the low rates and earnings potential. Here is that cities story.

    Little Rock, AR -- Uber and Lyft, you should both be ashamed of yourselves for possibly providing the lowest driver Rideshare Rates and earnings potential in the country to drivers in this city of approximately 200,000 people covering 122 square miles.

    With Uber not allowing Chicago registered drivers access to the app west of Springfield, IL for some reason, I am continuing to use and report on the Lyft rideshare experience while heading to Austin, TX for an auto event and then to my home in California. Both apps are locked out in California until I switch cities consisting of yet another new background check, new driving record check, and another vehicle inspection.

    While in Little Rock, I fired up the Lyft app at 11:02 pm and received the first ping within 10-seconds. For the next 5 hours and 3-minutes, I was innundated with ride requests all the while it was raining between hard and sprinkling the entire period.

    After the second ride and immediate auto fill queue requests or pings, I knew something was up. I checked the rider app and their were only 2 Lyft drivers covering the entire city of Little Rock!!! As I continued to swap to the rider app and back to the driver throughout the night and morning, I only saw one time where there were 3 Lyft drivers available across approximately 20 square miles of Little Rock area real estate! The first passenger informed me she was on a 24 minute wait for a ride before I showed up 6-minutes later. By the third passenger, I was informed the Univ. of Arkansas vs Mississippi State game was held earlier that afternoon. Arkansas lost. I was not able to even access the Lyft - Little Rock, AR area rate card until after passenger #8 some 3.5 hours into this ordeal since it was so busy...

    The only good thing that came out of last night was my Lyft rating climbed from 4.96 to 4 98 out of 5. This after over 4,000 rides on both Uber - 4.96 - and Lyft platforms in just 8-months time.

    And now the numerous complaints...

    Over the course of the next 5 hours and 2 minutes, I received 12 rides with 4 having multiple scheduled or unscheduled stops, 1 cacellation, and a total earnings of $98.14 incl. 3 tips of $11. This works out to just $19.24/hour on arguably the busiest rideshare request day possibly in Little Rock history.


    Lessons Learned

    1. Uber and Lyft, you should both be ashamed of yourselves for providing Little Rock, AR drivers with a potential earning stream of less than $10/hour on a normal day/night or std. weekend. The Little Rock, AR rates are $0.57/mile and $0.1125/min, the lowest mileage rate I have encountered thus far.

    2. Lyft, you should be especially ashamed of yourself for screwing drivers out of Prime Time - read Surge earnings. In the middle of the 5-hours, I received just 2 Prime time rides, one at 75 percent which netted just $3.75 over 2 miles and another at 25 percent that netted $8 after a 6-mile ride. That first 75 percent came within as flurry of I believe was 21 requests that were 12 to 13-minutes out from what I was assuming to be the same general area in under 90 seconds. I was punching the X so as to not accept these ripoff long pickup rides with no earnings bump as fast as I could tap the damn app screen!!! Only when the first 75 percent Prime time appeared did I click accept. The $3.75 ride was BS!

    I saw this activity once before at the Ravinia concert venue in Highland Park, IL. I had consumed my Uber app 10-hours of Chicago driving time and had no access to that app. While driving home on the Lyft app, I received a 14-minute ping ahead with a 25 percent Prime Time adder. I took it. As I was passing the area, there were hundreds of people standing in the rain along the streets of Highland Park requesting rideshare. Phones out and the stare into them. During that time, Uber was fire red with 4X surging for 2 cities in all directions. Lyft had the first at 25 percent and the second 30+ minute ride out if the area at 0. The rider was a Rideshare driver and said Uber was 4Xs the estimate of his $25 25-mile ride out to Chicago. Last night Lyft was doing tbe same BS to drivers in Little Rock. 2 drivers across the entire city available, 21 pings in under 2-minutes, Uber at 4x to 6x surge, and Lyft is offering rides at the std. below minimum wage for time rates? This is unconciousable!!!

    3. Lyft, you should be ashamed of yourself for allowing multiple stop rides with no earnings addition while drivers are making $6.75/hour to wait! The Gatorade purchase, pack of cigarettes purchase, liquor store purchase, $7 payment to your brother, and second passenger drop off paying $6.75/hour is an insult to U.S. workers everywhere!!!

    4. Uber, I have sent you platform updates and rider support phone calls on this in the past. For goodness sake, why are you limiting driver regions to areas with no rideshate regulation to begin with? A Chicago registered driver being locked out of the app in Springfield, Peoria, and Rockford, IL eliminating rideshare west of these cities is STUPID!!! All the while Lyft is allowing me to run rideshare in all of IL, St. Loius, Memphis, and Little Rock as documented above. Not only did you allow tens of requests to be unfilled costing you hundreds of $s in potential earnings last night, you cost me hundreds of $s of potential earnings because I was locked into the Lyft app. I feel like a damned fool because of this!!!

    5. To the few people of Little Rock that I drove last night and early this morning. Shame on some of you for requesting multiple scheduled and unscheduled stops while your drivers are making less than Federal minimum wage and not tipping after the fact. To the 3 people that tipped $5, $5, and $1 in the app, thank you from the bottom of my heart. It was a long and very frustrating night in Little Rock and you helped turn a dismal night into a night with future promise.

    To the rideshare and Taxi drivers of Little Rock, my ❤ goes out to you given the conditions for which you are currently being shackled with. Find something else better to do soon as Uber, Lyft, and the city's citizens as a whole are exploiting you to the likes I have never seen before.


    BillLin likes this.
  2. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    The Elantra reaches the AR/TX border...


    I have Jo Dee Messina's hit song running through my mind for some reason?

    Heads Carolina, Tails California, ...

    In reality, most cross country road trips to California include a trek across the vast Great State of Texas. And the Texas Auto Writers Association (#TAWA) Fall classic called the TAWA "Truck Rodeo" is this weekends final destination.

    With a very large contingent of on and off-road offerings, I suspect the recent Texas transplant called Toyota USA and the always hard charging @Ramtrucks brand will take most of including top honors at this years event.

    I cannot wait to drive the all-new 2019 Toyota Rav4 - hopefully the hybrid with the all-new 2.5L HSD Camry drivetrain - and the most efficient and luxurious full sized gas fueled truck available today in the form of the 2019 RAM 1500 with that magnificant 3.6L eTorque drivetrain.

    The 2018 Hyundai #Elantra Eco continues to kick @$$ and take names. At 54.2 mpg over the last 900-miles incl. 8-hours of rideshare in Chicago, 1-hour in Bloomington, IL, 1-hour in St. Louis, MO, 3-hours in Memphis, TN, and the previous write up about a certain 5-hour ordeal in Little Rock, AR last night and early this morning, she was rode hard, put away wet, and she is still taking on all challengers in no uncertain terms.

    I stopped at a McDonalds, had lunch, and refueled over a 45-minute period in Texarkana, TX. Not a single Lyft ping despite 8 Lyft riders all around? So long Texakana.

    Just 375 more miles from the AR/TX border to Austin, TX... Let's Rodeo!!!

    As I was approaching Dallas on the 30, I received a 10-minute ping ahead in the direction I was traveling. My first Texas ride! Unfortunately the four rides I provided in Dallas over the next 3 hours were a bust.

    Dallas Lyft Rate Card


    Between the 07:44 pm ping and 10:57 pm, the four rides generated just $25.62 or $7.88 per hour. Rates and pings per hour are way to low to justify running Lyft as your only platform in Dallas.

    Austin turned this around...
    BillLin likes this.
  3. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    Austin was a double working grind as the 2018 Texas Auto Writers Association (TAWA) Texas Truck Rodeo was being held held at the Longhorn River Ranch in Dripping Springs, TX. Despite the massive flooding from the most amount of rain the area has experienced since 1939, the trucks and SUV/CUVs continued to roll and I took on RIdeshare in the evenings and early mornings.

    This morning finds me in the middle of nowhere at a McDonald's in Gila Bend, AZ with the Lyft platform live. I am now looking back on the week that was...

    But first, look at the rider app and I am wondering if anyone has ever requested or been picked up in Gila Bend, AZ? As in ever over the entire history of earth? I bet the answer is no. :D :D :D


    Now that I have deactivated Uber, my login screen is the generic GUI. My Lyft rating is now at 4.99 thanks to the rider call center removing a one-star from an unruly Phoenix passenger yesterday...


    In my extremely limited "Lyft only" cross country experience/experiment, Little Rock, Memphis, and El Paso were the most challenging areas to make decent $s. I suspect averaging less than $15/hour will be the norm. To high of a driver saturation, not enough area customers, and low rates really hamper driver earnings potential.

    Bloomington, IL, St Louis, and Dallas were only slightly ahead with marginal earnings potential.

    Phoenix was also very tough to reach the $20/hr level but active enough on Lyft to make Thursdays and Fridays workable with a 2.1 rides per hour per average. Maybe Uber could push drivers over the top but that city just got hit with Ubers $ making scheme where drivers per mile rate was slashed and the new per minute rate increase did not make up for it. The current Lyft $0.06 per minute and $0.71/mile rate is what kills this area.

    Chicago is a market to make $s in but is also the hardest as the impediments - traffic, pedestrians, speed bumps, one way streets, stop signs, lights, etc - are mind numbing. Vehicle damage is by far the most likely there. With Uber's new $ making scheme just implemented, suburban drivers were handed a pay cut in no uncertain terms. Maybe drivers that live closer to or even in downtown "may" experience a slight raise? I lost big time and deactivated my Uber account because of it.

    The best market I have driven to date is by far Austin, TX. Still ok rates - $0.75/mile and $0.15/minute, and over the course of 3 weekdays, a 3.1, 2.1, and 2.7 ride count per hour incurred for a 2.5 ride per hour ride average that provided a $26/hour income stream. And this was Monday - Wednesday! This means it is not driver saturated like all the other areas I have driven. The weekends on all THREE platforms -- what is this three thing about??? See below -- are sure to provide Austin area drivers even more!

    Why Austin? Again just suspicions but Uber and Lyft were kicked out of the city last year. The Texas State house passed Legislation allowing them back in but there were local startups that flourished. Ride Austin is a non-profit and by far the largest rideshare in the city. It allows drivers to keep much more of the fare and charges customers less.


    While out of towners flying in do not know what Ride Austin is, locals do. The few that introduced me to them while they were on a Lyft ride (I am not entirely sure why???) said Ride Austin has more technical glitches but they are less expensive. It sounds like a better local rideshare that is underfunded which is to bad. A little competition keeps the customer charges down and the driver earnings up. My takeaway from the Austin Market anyway?

    BillLin likes this.
  4. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    While I was in El Paso, TX, I was parked in the Airport Rideshare queue waiting to pick up a final passenger before heading toward Phoenix. I saw a new Leaf driver next to me and thought it would be cool to ask her some questions about her car. It turns out she is an online friend named Jennifer Sensiba! She started the Southwest EcoMotoring Club on Facebook.


    I am from Chicago heading to San Diego. She is from Phoenix and spending time with family in Las Cruces, NM one major town over the TX/NM border. To meet in the middle while hanging out in a rideshare airport queue has got to be beyond astronomical levels of coincidence!!!

    She is driving an 18 Nissan Leaf with 31k miles on the clock. Over those miles she has over 300 Level 3 fast and 400 Level 2 charges on it. Mostly on EVGo in Phoenix. Just 6 percent battery degradation and this is in the heat of Phoenix!

    In any case, I purchased a lottery ticket with this total one-off chance meeting. I did not win unfortunately.

    Wow!!! Great to meet you in person Jennifer!
    BillLin likes this.
  5. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    Since I am speaking about Austin and how it was my best rideshare earning city while crossing from Chicago to San Diego, let us do a ride request and drivers earnings comparison. Uber and Lyft are both providing much higher driver rates in Austin than in San Antonio, Houston, and Dallas and has me wondering why? Here is why.

    I picked up over 60 rides in Austin and here is a typical one including the Rider and Driver breakout for Lyft. Lyft has been caught numerous times showing the passenger pay in the app being lower than what the passenger has paid. I did not ask any of my passenger to show me their actual payment so this may or may not still be the case.

    Lyft vs Ride Austin Case Study - Oct. 16, 1:10 am


    This was a non-Airport pickup consisting of a 12-minute ping - Ping to pickup, approximately 3 to 4 minutes for the rider to get to the car and loaded, and app accepting the rider including displaying his destination, and the passenger ride itself covering 15.8 miles over 29-minutes from pickup to drop off. At Lyft's std. $0.75/mile and $0.15/min rates, I earned $17.66 with some addition for minutes to load from arrival, the time and distance plus a $2 tip for a drivers - mine - $19.66 take.

    Lyft took in $31.75 of which $19.66 went to me the driver, Lyft kept $10.09 for itself, and $2.00 in taxes went to either the state of Texas or city of Austin.

    Under Ride Austin on this same trip, a driver would have earned the full rate card as Ride Austin's rates for the passenger all - as in 100 percent go to the driver - plus $3.00 to cover their - Ride Asstin booking and processing.

    Ride Austin Driver/Passenger Rates


    In this case, it would have been 15.8 miles over 29 minutes at $0.99/mile ($15.64) and $0.20/minute ($5.80) + $2.00 tip for the driver providing a total earnings of $23.44. $23.44 on Ride Austin or almost 20 percent more compared to the $19.66 in earnings on Lyft for 43 minutes of time including the drive to the passenger, wait time for the passenger to arrive and load, and the ride itself.

    Now let us consider what the passenger would have paid on the Ride Austin platform.

    A $2.00 booking fee, a $1.00 Processing fee, $21.44 to the driver, $2.00 tip to the driver, and possibly a $2.00 tax to the State of Texas or City of Austin. That tax may not be applicable since Ride Austin is a non-profit. All told, the rider would have paid $28.44 which is almost $3.31 less or almost 10 percent.

    Ride Austin would have taken in $28.44 of which $23.44 went to me the driver, Ride Austin kept $3.00 for itself, and possibly $2.00 in taxes went to either the state of Texas or city of Austin.

    The tale of the tape looks like this....

    Austin Lyft Driver Rates - $0.75/mile and $0.15/min

    San Antonio Lyft Driver Rates - $0.72/mile and $0.08/min
    Houston Lyft Driver Rates - $0.60/mile and $0.12/min
    Dallas Lyft Driver Rates - $0.60/mile and $0.12/min

    Rideshare company competition can be the only main reason that Uber and Lyft have not decimated driver earnings in Austin like they have in Houston, Dallas, and San Antonio. I actually wish the organizers of Ride Austin would take 5 to 10 percent of drivers cut to create a more stable back end as it would benefit the city, the citizens of Austin, and the drivers despite having a little more taken from them vs. Uber and Lyft now taking between 35 and 75 percent of the earnings stream in other locales.

    Even more impressive, Ride Austin insures their drivers from the time the app is on to the pickup. Uber and Lyft only insure drivers from the initial ping to pickup meaning the drivers car insurance is on the hook more a large percentage of miles while driving Rideshare.

    Period 1 (Driver logged in, but has not accepted request)

    $50k bodily injury, $100k total injury, $25k property damage (excess)
    Period 2 (Driver accepted request) and Period 3 (on a trip)

    $1M 3rd party liability, $1M UI/UM (uninsured / underinsured motorist)

    I cannot find RideAustin's driver collision deductible with about 20-minutes of Google searches however and rideshare surge experiences in Austin is very limited on any of the platforms. I can imagine when the UT Football is playing in Austin, Uber's Surge multiplier is going to pay more than Lyft and Austin Rideshare but I am entirely guessing on this point?

    BillLin likes this.
  6. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    My last pickup was in Yuma, AZ on the AZ/CA border. I knew Lyft would go dark as soon as I crossed the border so it was a good time to stop at a McDonald's for lunch.

    There were a lot of Lyft cars in the area as seen on the Lyft Rider App so I thought the Yuma, AZ drivers would have trouble making decent $s?

    Lyft activity around the downtown and Airport area.​

    I was a the McDonalds for almost an hour before my first ping just 4-minutes away. A Chick-Fil-A down the street where I picked up two members of U.S. armed forces, Marines, needing a ride back to the Yuma Marine Air Station.

    The last Lyft ride... Sort of.


    While taking them to their base, they stated they needed a ride to a local Casino after what they said should be just 15-minutes. I completed their ride on Lyft, exchanged phone numbers, shut off the app, and said I would wait for them at the base entry way. At the 25-minute mark, I called and they said they would be right there.

    For my last ride, I told them it was on me since I was heading to California anyway.


    19 min and 13 miles later I dropped them off at the California Casino they wanted to go to and had completed the cross country Lyft Experience experiment. They must have know that trip was worth a whole lot of $s because one of the guys walked around the car to thank me and gave me a $20 bill. The other guy that ordered the ride to the base added a $5 tip to the ride completed almost an hour before just minutes after dropping them off at the Casino.

    Yuma and much of Western Arizona's $1.31/mile rate - see the rate card above - was the highest I have driven in personally. Unfortunately, even in Yuma, AZ, there were far to many drivers leading to a 1 or less ping/hour request rate to earn decent living on the Lyft platform alone. Only a downtown Chicago and Austin area driver could be sustained on the Lyft platform exclusively from my non-scientific drive and data collection drive imho.

    After dropping the two Marines off, I drove back to Yuma as I had to refuel for a lot less per gallon than California fuel costs. $2.71 per gallon at a Yuma Sam's Club and I was on my way back toward San Diego. During that half hour, I left the Lyft app on just in case a ride was requested. No more pings and no luck when I crossed the Colorado river and saw my position evaporate on the rider app for the third and final time.


    And so the next chapter in California begins.

    BillLin likes this.
  7. BillLin

    BillLin PV solar, geothermal HVAC, hybrids and electrics

    Nice thing you did for the two service men, Wayne.
    xcel likes this.
  8. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Bill:

    Thanks for actually reading through all of these posts to catch that highlight! Since I have never served as a member of the U.S. Armed Forces, I always give members of the military my best. It was an honor and they deserve a whole lot more than that too!

    BillLin likes this.
  9. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    A few more items to add to the expense side of the equation. A $278 fee for California Plates and Registration plus $29.95 for a California SMOG Check and we can begin anew with a California rideshare TCO experiment segment. I still have to have a new background check generated and am probably going to register in Orange County as the bonuses appear to be higher and it does not seem to be as driver saturated? Still considering one or the other until I have to decide next week.

    At the Smog check place, I asked the mechanic to check the front discs. He came back and asked if there was any shimmy, pull to one side, or odd noise when I step on the brakes. I said no but thinking the worst, I thought here it comes. He said they are only 50 percent worn! 50,000 miles of Chicago rideshare with 10s of thousands of stops and the discs and pads are only 50 percent worn? I am not sure what kind of material Hyundai is using with their discs and pads but damn!!!

    BillLin likes this.
  10. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    Beginning 3 oil changes ago, I began to use the std. Quaker State fill of Advanced Durability since the Elantra ECO's OCI is 6.000 miles. $19.95 + TAX all in.

    I also allowed my XM subscription to expire saving quite a few $s per month as few passengers asked for it vs. Pandora which is in use almost every ride. I offer each passenger the option to choose their favorite AM/FM/XM station or favorite artist from Pandora. Using the Elantra's Android Auto infotainment system, I say Google, Play "Name your artist here" and 98 percent of the time, she gets it right.

    BillLin likes this.
  11. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    While I am still awaiting for Uber to complete the transfer of my credentials to Orange County, I have been doing Lyft here in Southern California including a few days in Carmel for the 2019 RAV4 Hybrid short lead and a few in Santa Barbara for the 2019 Subaru Crossrek PHEV.

    San Diego on the Lyft platform can support a driver at a $20 per hour target excluding expenses but they will not be able to achieve that level on average throughout the week if they are in what locals call North County up near Camp Pendelton. The higher $0.87/mile but lower $0.1125/min rates help move the income up but there is not enough business unless you have base access with a DBIDS Military base access credential. I will be applying for that next week as well. Every time I have received a ride onto the base - you can go onto the base property with a rider using his military ID - and within 15-minutes of dropping him or her off, you will receive another ping. Most are long rides of 20-miles or more too! I will have a more solid feel for the area once I have my Uber rideshare access.

    Whenever I have driven into Orange County which begins on the North Side of Camp Pendeleton to Irvine to the North, Lyft ping rates appear higher as doe income.

    Carmel was excellent in terms of rates with a $0.995/mile and $0.18/min rate but the ping rate at 1.5 ping per hour or less through a Tuesday evening and Wednesday night period was poor. Besides Carmel and Monterey, there is little else there.

    Santa Barbara however was hot. The stop lights are smart lights that will change green for you before you reach them if nobody is in the cross traffic pattern. In addition, ping rates were higher and the area has close to San Francisco rates at $0.9825/mile and $0.165/min. I am not sure about the weekends or mornings but between 12:00 midnight and 03:00 am on a Wednesday night, the pings never stopped. 3 to 4 per hour was the norm but there were a lot of short 1 to 1.5 mile rides. On Thursday afternoon, it was a bit slower with 2 pings per hour until about 09:00 pm when they picked up again in to the 3 to 4 per hour rate until midnight when I shut down. Friday morning included destination rides out of the area and that reduces ping rates significantly. I had 2 rides before escaping Santa Barbara within an hour of leaving he hotel but Lyft's Destination filer is FUBAR with San Diego as a destination set. The two I received went back north or backwards from my intended destination?

    A telltale sign regarding a good balance of rider to drivers in Santa Barbara was that I picked up and dropped off the same guy and gal three times in a single night. Over 4,250 rides in Chicago, I picked up one guy and one gal in far northern IL - my former home base - 4 times as a record. Nobody three time that I can remember. In a single night to pick up and drop off the same couple three times means there were more than likely just 15 to 20 Uber and Lyft drivers working the area on that Thursday night. Parking in downtown just off State Street - where the bar I kept getting pinged to are located.

    Moving south, I picked up a destination ride from Ventura to LA at Santa Barbara rates and that was not bad at all.

    LA itself can be a nightmare like Chicago when considering rush hour traffic. I was spun around LA for over three hours on a Friday afternoon/evening between 03:00 and 07:00 pm while crawling around from pickup to drop off. Again Lyft's destination filter was going backwards with every other ride which did not allow me to escape for almost 4-hours. Uber's Destination Filter almost always pushes you in your direction of travel so they are much much smarter.

    I will post some pics of the rate cards including one astonishingly high rate card in the San Louis Obispo area tomorrow.

    BillLin and EdwinTheMagnificent like this.
  12. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    I asked and was granted a City of Chicago Chauffeur License with my new California Registration, Insurance, and Plates through Lyft. 100 percent legal to drive and pickup in Chicago including O'Hare.


    BillLin likes this.
  13. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    When I left Chicago a few months back, Uber and Lyft following suite pulled the rug out of drivers there with an overall rate reduction from $0.75/mile and $0.15/min to $0.6075/mile and $0.21/min. Only those driving the inner city actually benefited while those of us way out in the Suburbs got hammered! Uber's Pool rates were lowered below their std. X rates this past summer so I opted out of ever doing Pool for Uber again.

    And just as I arrive to San Diego, Uber pulled the rug out of drivers here this past Monday from $0.87/mile and $0.1125/min to $0.6025/mile and $0.225/min. The per minute rate came up significantly but San Diego does not have nearly the traffic that Chicago does and once again, I am over 40-miles from Downtown San Diego leaving me with more high speed Interstate drives and once again, a lower earnings potential.

    Adding insult to injury, Uber removed Quest bonuses altogether in both San Diego and Orange County and like Chicago, moved to Fixed surge pricing where they collect the entire multiplier and the driver receives a small stipend of usually $2 to $4.00. I have seen waybills from drivers around the country where they received $20 for a ride and the rider paid over $100 while Uber collected the entire surge other than $5.

    I am working Lyft in the morning for a 5 ride streak bonus while it lasts and working late in South Orange Country where the rate reduction brought rates down to the old San Diego rate of $0.87/mile and $0.1125/minute on both Uber and Lyft. Lyft's rates drop off once in Irvine to the LA County border at $0.795/mile and $0.1275/minute whereas Uber stays at $0.87/mile and $0.1125/minute to the LA County line. Meaning Lyft is priority in San Diego County, I run both Uber and Lyft in South Orange County, and Uber from Irvine to North of LA if necessary.

    That Uber earnings drop was a kick in the teeth for mot driver and it occurred nationwide. Lyft is only higher in some areas - like San Diego, but is sending notes out about new rates as well. The Uber and Lyft e-mails come with the coined PR phrase,

    This is of course BS as earnings have been cut by about 6 percent for most suburban drivers. Any long rides are no longer as profitable and make the deadhead home truly a nightmare.

    To combat the ridiculously low rates, I am beginning to consider advertising private rideshare for longer rides at $1.00/mile and $0.20/minute in the 18 Elantra Eco and $1.25/mile and $0.25/min in the 17 Sonata Hybrid Limited. Both are significantly less than what Uber and Lyft are charging passengers through their own apps for longer drives. They are much higher than this one shorter drives with more than double the passenger charge than what drivers receive most every where in the country now.

    All in, the future of rideshare looks bleak as the driver rate cuts are not over. Within a few days of the lower rate, San Diego Airport Uber queue numbers back over 100 from about 05:00 pm to well after midnight and that can be upwards of a 3 to 4-hour wait for a fare that could be as little as $10 to as high averaging about $50. When I saw OHare queues going over 200 this past summer in the middle of the night on weekdays, I knew it was all over for Chicago area drivers as desperation had taken hold and Uber knew it. Chicago Uber rates fell significantly within 2-months of seeing that. These unhealthily queue numbers are not sustainable and makes sitting in that queue completely ignorant for every driver that sits there waiting for even lower rate and earning rides.

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  14. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    I have quite a few updates to add but this mornings experience has me flustered. ☹

    Here is that story...

    I turned down - read canceled - my first 100-mile ride this morning and I feel terrible.

    San Diego to La Brea at 07:30 am.

    Why? My TCO is $0.27/mile. San Diego rates at $0.6525/mile and $0.225/min would have seen the 100-minute, 100-mile run earn $87.75. The cost to do the drive out and surely a deadhead most of the way back if not all the way back at $0.27/mile over 200-miles equals $54.

    To drive the 200 mile RT in 3-hours and 30-minutes would have netted $33.75 or $9.64/hour. I make a lot more than that going local.

    This is what these new lower post Christmas trash per mile rates have come too. I am pretty frugal to get my TCO this low - $13,800+TTL vehicle, 42.9 lifetime mpg, and std. Maintenance.

    I am parked in the SAN airport queue to take a leak and see quite a number of $20k+ vehicles with much lower efficiency whose TCO has got to be close to $0.40 or more per mile. See pic. Anyone running a $0.40/mile TCO would lose money if they did not receive a few rides on the way back.


    3 of my last 10 LAX runs were deadheads back. 1 rematch was < $5 to a local hotel and the other 2 were terminal 7 with no rematches and no rides back across all of LA and Orange County.

    In any case, I felt terrible for having to tell the passenger to his face that this is not going to be a profitable ride and I am going to have to cancel.

    Damn you Uber and Lyft for forcing me to have to do this!!!

    Lyft sent the std. "Your cancellation rate appears to be high, log off and take a break" non-sensical reply less than two hours later.

    I hope someone here took this gentlemen and his luggage to Brea, CA and I hope it was a profitable endeavour for you.

    Thank you for allowing me to vent. I am just pissed that I had to be the one to tell this man I am sorry for wasting his time and that ultimately it was my fault.
  15. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    Rates were cut yet again in the OC and LA counties with San Diego rate cuts just weeks away so this is heading south in one hell of a hurry.


    With that and the 18 Elantra crossing the 100k mile barrier on Saturday afternoon, cap factor or paid miles vs driven miles is of utmost importance...

    Last week saw no LA or OC runs - all San Diego

    LYFT paid miles - Week of March 4th through 10th

    Monday = 64.4 miles
    Tuesday = 71.9 miles
    Wednesday = 132.1 miles
    Thursday = 86.4 miles
    Friday = 18.4 miles
    Saturday = 37.9 miles
    Sunday = 26.4 miles
    Lyft total paid miles = 437.7 miles

    Uber paid miles - Week of March 4th through 10th

    Monday = 71.1 miles
    Tuesday = 97.7 miles
    Wednesday = 65.3 miles
    Thursday = 87.4 miles
    Friday = 119.4 miles
    Saturday = 135.9 miles
    Sunday = 143.3 miles
    Uber total paid miles = 720.2 miles

    Private paid miles = 82.1 miles

    Total Uber, Lyft, and private paid miles = 1,240.0 miles

    Weekly vehicle total miles driven from first start Monday morning to shit down Sunday night = 2,043.7 miles - new tires and Garmin match to within .1 miles over 100 now - yielding a 60.6 percent cap factor.

  16. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    Week 2 of the Cap factor study yields the following metrics... I transferred my city/region from the OC to San Diego which caused an almost 2 full days absence on the Uber platform.

    Lyft - 581.4 miles
    Uber - 373 miles
    Private - 243 miles

    1,197.4 paid miles vs 2,094.1 miles at 26 mph avg speed equating to 80.5 hours and a cap factor of 57.2 percent.

  17. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    An update through the end of 2018 to cover any taxes owed.

    2018 Hyundai Elantra Eco

    Purchased just over 15-months ago with 4-miles on its odometer.​

    Uber - 3,367 rides in 2018

    1/29 - 2/05: $ 108.61 <-- Short first week in Milwaukee
    2/05 - 2/11: $ 00.00 <-- San Diego to Milwaukee to Chicago Uber region swap
    2/12 - 2/19: $ 692.10 - $5.00 tolls
    2/19 - 2/26: $1,551.61 - $8.06 tolls
    2/26 - 3/05: $1,581.67 - $7.30 tolls
    3/05 - 3/11: $1,694.93 - $7.40 tolls
    3/12 - 3/18: $1,085.48 - $3.20 tolls <-- 4.4+ days lost due to Elantra door dent repair
    3/19 - 3/25: $1,703.27 - $9.50 tolls
    3/25 - 4/01: $1,010.84 - $2.15 tolls <-- Short final week

    Travel between California and Illinois

    05/21 - 05/28: $ 953.78 - $0.75 tolls
    05/28 - 06/04: $ 585.66
    06/04 - 06/11: $1,922.71 - $8.30 tolls
    06/11 - 06/18: $1,962.22 - $5.80 tolls
    06/18 - 06/25: $1,681.38 - $8.46 tolls
    06/25 - 07/02: $1,973.57 - $15.32 tolls
    07/02 - 07/09: $1,881.91 - $5.10 tolls
    07/09 - 07/16: $1,637.23 - $8.51 tolls
    07/16 - 07/23: $1,783.13 - $4.60 tolls
    07/23 - 07/30: $1,699.00 - $4.00 tolls
    07/30 - 08/06: $1,653.21 - $8.06 tolls
    08/06 - 08/13: $1,717.88 - $11.90 tolls
    08/13 - 08/20: $1,549.70 - $13.70 tolls
    08/20 - 08/27: $ 203.66 - $2.15 tolls <-- Crossing the country to CA
    08/27 - 09/03: $ 10.92 <-- Crossing the country to IL
    09/03 - 09/10: $ 278.82 - $1.70 tolls
    09/10 - 09/17: $1,184.69 - $6.95 tolls
    09/17 - 09/24: $1,283.73 - $8.00 tolls
    09/24 - 10/01: $1,355.67 - $11.15 tolls
    10/01 - 10/08: $1,230.22 - $5.60 tolls
    10/08 - 10/15: $ 898.62 - $8.55 tolls <-- Crossing the country to CA and switched to the OC
    10/15 - 10/22: $0.00
    10/22 - 10/29: $0.00
    10/29 - 11/05: $0.00
    11/05 - 11/12: $0.00
    11/12 - 11/19: $0.00
    11/19 - 11/26: $0.00
    11/26 - 12/03: $299.39 - $7.76 tolls
    12/03 - 12/10: $477.54 - $3.69 tolls
    12/10 - 12/17: $51.41
    12/17 - 12/24: $458.31
    12/24 - 12/31: $1,082.54

    Uber Totals: $39,234.21 - $192.66 toll reimbursement = $39,041.55 gross earnings

    Lyft - 1,572 rides in 2018

    1/29 - 2/05: $ 658.18 <-- Short first week in Milwaukee
    2/05 - 2/11: $1,778.94 - $10.80 tolls
    2/12 - 2/18: $1,116.61 - $2.65 tolls
    2/19 - 2/25: $ 721.41 - $3.40 tolls
    2/26 - 3/04 - $1,352.29 - $8.20 tolls
    3/05 - 3/11: $159.39 - $0.45 tolls
    3/12 - 3/18: $296.88 - $5.10 tolls <-- 4.4+ days lost due to Elantra door dent repair
    3/19 - 3/25: $160.30
    3/25 - 4/01: $176.19 - $0.95 tolls <-- Short final week

    Travel between California and Illinois

    05/21 - 05/28: $16.24
    05/28 - 06/04: $139.82 - $0.95 tolls
    06/04 - 06/11: $550.88 - $11.50 tolls
    06/11 - 06/18: $233.77 - $1.30 tolls
    06/18 - 06/25: $213.92 - $3.55 tolls
    06/25 - 07/02: $48.43 - $1.50 tolls
    07/02 - 07/09: $0.00
    07/09 - 07/16: $65.10
    07/16 - 07/23: $97.04
    07/23 - 07/30: $186.71
    07/30 - 08/06: $183.43 - $3.30 tolls
    08/06 - 08/13: $147.66 - $1.50 tolls
    08/13 - 08/20: $87.59 - $0.95 tolls
    08/20 - 08/27: $77.77 - $0.75 tolls
    08/27 - 09/03: $0.00 <-- Crossing the country to CA
    09/03 - 09/10: $18.16 <-- Crossing the country to IL
    09/10 - 09/17: $377.00
    09/17 - 09/24: $268.40 - $0.45 tolls
    09/24 - 10/01: $309.59 - $1.20 tolls
    10/01 - 10/08: $496.59 - $1.90 tolls
    10/08 - 10/15: $564.34 - $0.75 tolls <-- Crossing the country to CA
    10/15 - 10/22: $857.83 <-- Crossing the country to CA
    10/22 - 10/29: $6.00
    10/29 - 11/05: $0.00
    11/05 - 11/12: $1,002.86
    11/12 - 11/19: $892.00 - $18.19 tolls
    11/19 - 11/26: $392.52
    11/26 - 12/03: $576.41
    12/03 - 12/10: $895.83
    12/10 - 12/17: $398.56
    12/17 - 12/24: $1,108.14 - $10.77 tolls
    12/24 - 12/31: $956.12

    Lyft Totals: $17,588.90 - $90.11 toll reimbursement = $17,498.79 gross earnings

    Uber and Lyft Cumulative Ride Totals - 4,939 rides to date

    2018 Rideshare Gross earnings: $56,540.34 + $1,410 insurance loss of use minus $210 deductible = $57,740.34 + $3,400 cash tips = $61,140 not including vehicle TCO expenses, consumables, or taxes (see below).

    Cumulative miles on the (2) rideshare platforms: 87,800 miles including 13,400 for drive(s) out and back to California 3 times. 74,400 rideshare miles.

    2018 Total Cost of Ownership Details

    2018 Hyundai Elantra ECO Price ($21,645 Monroney MSRP incl. cloth mats, first aid Kit, wheel Locks, Full tank of fuel, and D&H)

    2018 Hyundai Elantra ECO - $13,803
    Calif. Tax - $1,499
    DOC - $80
    Tamp Tag - $21
    Mini-Spare - $239
    IL Registration and Plates - $200
    California Plates, title, registration, and smog transfer: $350.

    Total OTD Vehicle Cost incl. TTL(s), D&H, and DOC: $16,192

    2018 Hyundai Elantra ECO Rideshare Accessories

    ANKER AUX Cord - $6.99 shipped
    ANKER USB-A to Lightning - $8.99 shipped
    ANKER (2) USB-A to USB-C - $11.99 shipped
    ANKER USB-A to Micro USB - $5.99 shipped
    RapidX X5 5-port fast charger - $20 shipped
    Husky Front, Rear, and Trunk Mats - $220 shipped
    Black and Decker BDH2000PL MAX 20V Lithium Pivot Car Vacuum - $67.99 shipped
    Norelco Razor - $32 shipped
    24 Blue Motion Sickness Bags - $9.99 shipped
    iOttie Easy One Touch 4 Dash Mount - $24 shipped
    Garmin DriveSmart 70 LMT – Promo unit from the 15 VW Golf TDI Guinness World Record Drive ($349.99 retail price)
    Mini-Spare and jack kit included in the Total Vehicle Cost above.
    Kindle Fire HD10 - $161 shipped <-- Added in 2019
    Adjustable angle car headrest tablet mount - $25 shipped <-- Added in 2019

    OTD Vehicle Accessory Costs: $593.94

    Total Vehicle Purchase Price: $16,786 -- $16,800 for all intents and purposes.

    2018 Hyundai Elantra rideshare vehicle depreciation using KBB residual for Fair condition and TIV after 74,400 miles = $7,513.


    2018 Rideshare Vehicle Expenses

    Depreciation: KBB TIV shows a $7,513 hit from new above or $0.101/mi.
    Fuel: $4,867 in fuel at 42.8 mpg and $2.80 per gallon average over 74,400 miles or $0.065/mi
    Insurance: $515 for 12 months of vehicle insurance or $0.007/mi
    Oil Change: $373 or $0.005/mi
    Tires: $280 at 72,500 miles or $0.004/mi
    Brakes: $282 at 97,500 miles or $0.003/mi

    2018 Total Rideshare Vehicle Expense = $13,745

    2018 Rideshare Consumable Expenses

    $ 91 for Jolly Ranchers
    $325 for water
    $ 14 for the Lemon Grass and pads which should last for a year or more for a < $1/month
    $880 for phone -- $22/month for the phone and $60 for Service
    $282 in Illinois and California Tollway charges

    2018 Total Rideshare Consumable Expense = $1,592

    2018 Rideshare Taxes

    I used the std. $0.54/mile mileage deduction since it was far more than the actual driving cost aspect of the 2018 Elantra. This left a gross of $61,140 minus $40,176 (74,400 miles *$0.54/mile) of $20,964. The 20 percent pass-through yielded a taxable income of $16,771. In addition, non-direct vehicle expenses – tolls, water, candy, etc. – plus hotels and food outside of my region (on a 50 percent basis from my cross-country Lyft drives) are deductible bringing my final taxable earnings for Rideshare to $15,179. I left the hotels and food out of the calculations since those would not be a normal rideshare drivers’ expenses and deductions.

    From the $15,179 taxable income, SS/MC was 15.3 percent ($2,322), Fed was 11 percent ($1,669), and State of CA was 2.2 percent ($333).

    2018 Total Rideshare Taxes = $4,324

    2018 Rideshare Net Earnings

    All in profit from gross earnings minus vehicle and consumable expenses incl. taxes over the 74,400 rideshare miles comes to $61,140 (gross earnings) minus [$13,745 (total rideshare vehicle expenses) + $1,592 (total rideshare consumable expenses) + $4,324 (total Fed and State taxes)] = $41,479.

    2018 Total Rideshare Net Earnings = $41,479

    Rideshare Earnings Per Mile (Earnings minus expenses)

    Gross Earnings: $0.822/mile from $61,140/74,400 miles
    Expenses: $0.264/mile incl. taxes from $19,661/74,400 miles

    $0.822/mi - $0.264/mi = $0.558/mile

    Net Rideshare Earnings (Gross earnings minus all expenses) vs W2 Earnings Equivalent

    To take home $41,479, a W2 wage earner would have to earn at least - or the equivalent of - $61,587 with a 7.65 percent FICA/MC, 20 percent Fed, and 5 percent CA State on what would be a normal job income.

    My rideshare net income of $41,479 was generated while working 9.5-months at 75-hours per week for a grand total of ~ 2,850 total hours for a $14.55/hour take home. This includes pre and post shift cleaning of the Elantra interior/exterior, refueling time, and app on time from the time I am ready to rock and roll up to the time I arrive back home at the end of a day. The longer it takes to cover 74,400 miles – i.e. part time rideshare driver, the higher the expenses as yearly depreciation, registration, and ever higher fuel costs are based off of even far fewer miles yielding an even higher TCO/mile.

    A W2 wage earner would have to earn $21.60 per hour to match and would have to include his or her commuting time in lieu of every day and vehicle cleaning time. Remember the rideshare driver receives no OT after 40-hours, no benefits of any kind incl. no health or dental insurance and takes on all the risks of rideshare including tickets, vehicle damage from collision or disrespectful passengers, verbal abuse, physical assaults, and even death.

    Rideshare Going Forward

    For 2019, I am reducing my expenses somewhat with 10k mile OCs vs 6k since I am outside of the Hyundai 100k mile warranty and will drop collision reducing my std. insurance cost at the 125k mile mark as the car will be worth just $4.5k at that mileage just two months from now. The depreciation expense going forward is based on a $7,500 vehicle through year 2 accounting for just $4,500 vs. $7,500 from the new purchase price of $16,600 all-in. I am also expecting to incur few additional expenses beyond std consumables.

    Adding to the expense side of the ledger is fuel cost as the price per gallon has risen almost $0.40/gallon in the last 3 weeks here in CA with the avg. San Diego price of $03.25/gallon – my best prices after CC discounts and such and I am expecting a lot higher by summer. In addition, the DCT transmission still worries me as it is not nearly as smooth shifting as it was before 60k miles. That could be one hell of an expensive repair if it were to quit.

    I have applied for DBIDS Military Base Access and expect to have that authority shortly. Not all bases but the Navy Base in San Diego in particular. Possibly even the Camp Pendleton Marine Base but that one is still a question mark. I have also setup a Venmo account and have setup my current PayPal account to accept Discover, Visa, MC, and American Express CCs from future customers through PayPal’s free portable Bluetooth Credit Card magnetic strip and chip reader which should arrive shortly. In addition, I have taken out a short term Commercial policy and am in the process of setting up a CA TCP license so I can take private rides at a far higher rate and profit margin than the poverty level $0.6525/mile and $0.225/min rates that Uber and Lyft are paying drivers in San Diego today. This is very similar to the $0.87/min and $0.1125/min I was receiving when I first arrived in San Diego. The Chicago rates of $0.75/mile and $0.15/min I drove the vast majority of the 2018 Rideshare income totaled above has been reduced to just $0.6075/mile and $0.21/mile. I left the area just as that rate cut occurred. The $0.1425/mile hit overwhelmed the $0.06/min addition and harms suburban and rural drivers in Chicago. I am a suburban driver both then (far north Chicago suburbs) and now (far north San Diego suburbs).

    LA and OC just went through yet another rate cut from $0.795/mile and $0.18/min to just $0.60/mile and $0.21/min a week ago. Those rates are even more devastating and are just 25 percent of the $2.40 per mile LA drivers earned just 4 years ago. Those were good rates/earnings back in 2015. Today they are absolutely poverty level in and around LA in particular.

    If it were not for my much lower than average new vehicle purchase price, much higher than average efficiency, and generous tip income generated from going above and beyond a normal drivers offerings, those earnings could easily go below Federal minimum wage of $7.25/hour or California’s $11.00 per hour currently.

    New 2018 Toyota Camry SE vs New 2018 Elantra Eco Rideshare Earnings Case Study

    Anyone driving a new $28k 2018 Camry SE at 30 mpg for example would incur $16,500 in depreciation ($26,200 after $2k disc. + TTL and equipment purchase or $29,000 - $12,500 TIV) - $9k more than the 18 Elantra Eco - and fuel expenses of $7,000 (74,400 miles at 30 mpg and avg fuel cost of $2.80/gal) - $2,150 more than the 18 Elantra Eco - yielding an after tax and expenses income of approximately $30,000 after 2,850 hours or $10.52/hour. That is below CA minimum wage and that is working huge hours. The PT driver is working for far less because yearly, not just mileage depreciation, registration, and smog check expenses are based on fewer and fewer miles. I specifically chose the 2018 Toyota Camry SE as the level of equipment is near that of the Elantra ECO and it is one of the lowest TCO new vehicles available.

    2019 Nissan Sentra

    Another and possibly only other solid choice for the future of rideshare.​

    Buying wrong or any new midsize for rideshare is just not going to work for any driver financially going forward with higher fuel costs, higher finance rates, and lower driver rates. The only new vehicles I can think of that may work besides the Elantra model lineup not incl. the Limited at deep discounts is Nissan’s Sentra and Hyundai’s sister company, Kia and their Forte. New B-Segment vehicles no longer qualify on the Lyft platform given the meager passenger and cargo volumes.

    Toyota’s Corolla lineup is not a particularly good idea due to higher upfront purchase prices, small passenger and cargo volumes, poor ergonomics, and lack of Android Auto.

    New Honda Civics should be avoided due to the much higher upfront prices and still high depreciation costs from new to 150k miles in under 2-years.

    Android Auto’s Google maps and Pandora/Spotify integration on the large central display is quickly becoming my #1 feature for more accurate navigation, voice guided music selection, and more tips. Google Maps vastly improves routing and navigation from Uber and Lyft’s lousy phone-based maps and Lyft’s and Uber’s use of Google maps on the small phone screens only.

    Used Vehicles?

    The IIHS small overlap (SOL) Crash test ratings on pre 2014 anything should direct you to avoid at all costs. Toyota’s, Honda’s, Nissan’s, Hyundai’s, Chevrolet’s, and Ford’s without Android Auto are out imho. Anything over $15k or less than 40 mpg should not be a consideration either. So much for a used $15k Prius let alone the terrible taller driver ergonomics for 12-hours a day or more behind the wheel. While I have maintained a higher than average rating on both Uber (4.95 to 4.98) and Lyft (4.97 – 5.0) with only lousy phone maps in the past, removing the Uber/Lyft navigation obstacle of phone screen maps and music selection helps improve the rider experience immensely which in turn helps the driver with better tips. I just do not know of a sub $15k used vehicle with the appropriate level of basic equipment or safety that works outside of a used Elantra. A new Elantra or Sentra can be picked up for the same price or even less so why bother?

    Sub $5,000 beaters? Maintenance and Repair are going to cost you eventually if not immediately. The rider experience in a 2006 anything vs a 2018 or 2019 anything else is a good reason alone. There is a reason we all want new car vs a used one and that level of discrepancy to remove the depreciation hit while accepting higher than normal maintenance costs is a steep climb imho. Need a new tranny for that busted 2006 used car doing rideshare? That is not only a $3 to $4k hit to your pocketbook; it is a $1.5 to $2k hit to your earnings as you are offline for a week. Just $1.5k more and you own a new and warranty covered vehicle for the first 100k mile duration with all the features making driving better and far safer… I am sure to get some pushback on this conclusion as there are many that get by with very inexpensive used rideshare vehicles each and every day around the globe.

    Autonomous Rideshare Vehicles

    Autonomous vehicles? The promise is to eliminate driver incomes in their entirety and collecting the total fare in lieu of all the expenses spelled out in detail above. Unfortunately rideshare drivers experience damage in our $15k cars with passengers sitting right behind us! Vomiters, Tagging, rolling brothels, and pure childlike destructive behavior will be the norm within a $75k Autonomous vehicle and there will be nothing that even a camera on the occupants will ever do to stop it. Hopefully Level4 and even future Level5 autonomous vehicles will cost the same as a std. new $16k Elantra Eco but that is highly doubtful. Imagine the depreciation from new at $75k to $0 in just a year of 20-hour days/7-days per week autonomous vehicle rideshare let alone the higher fuel – electric or gasoline – expense.

    Adding to the mess, I wipe down the seats after every two to three rides, vacuum out the interior two to three times a shift, and wipe down the exterior and interior windows two times per shift. How an autonomous vehicle is going to be maintained to these levels with adults acting like children will overwhelm an owner’s ability to maintain and clean these cars to a level even a taxi owner/driver would today. The costs are going too far outweigh a driver’s income and there will be no tips going to these rideshare companies or those in the public that allow them to use their autonomous vehicle either.

    I am only going to brush upon the tens of thousands of employees or contractors necessary and staged in a massive lot to process 10s of thousands of autonomous vehicles in a city the size of LA or NY multiple times/day.

    The people side of autonomous rideshare will also leave a bad taste in rider’s mouths as riders make requests and are rarely at the pickup pin location generated. As drivers, we overcome this lack of discrete location placement in 25 to 30 percent of the rides requested with a phone call and statement such as:
    • Look for the white car with interior lights on and hazards flashing
    • I will U-Turn and pick you up on your side of the street when I arrive
    • If you are up the slope from the pin, I will come around to the backside of your subdivision entry
    • Are you near the Chick-fil-A, Subway, or Dry Cleaners?
    • Please provide me with the gate code before I arrive
    • Uber sent me to the employee entrance, is there another entry into the park?
    • Are you at 112 North Main Street or 112 South Main Street 2-blocks from the pin?
    These are just a few of the spontaneous prompts necessary for a successful pickup that an Autonomous vehicle may never master.

    10-mile out pickups? Rideshare companies will base a rider’s rate on actual costs and expected profit for each ride and they will be wildly different depending on how close a vehicle is to you and how far away it may end up prior to the refueling/cleaning servicing. Imagine the guy 10-miles out heading to LA from San Diego over a 100-mile drive. That is going to cost a lot more than the $85 we receive today vs $125 to $150 Uber and Lyft receives for that same 100-mile ride and deadhead back to home base. Think of a $45k Autonomous vehicle with a TCO of $0.60/mile covering 205 to 210-miles for a $125 fare. That is a break even at best before the ride has even begun yet drivers today are expected to provide that same ride generating between $40 and $60 to Uber/Lyft just for running the app. I am not sure where the $40 to $60 profit will come from in the future, but I doubt a rider will be as thrilled about requesting that autonomous vehicle ride at $165 to $185 in order to provide Uber and Lyft with the same profit using an autonomous vehicle as they make from standard everyday rideshare drivers and their far less costly vehicles today.

    The future of rideshare could prove to be very interesting in fact.

    2018 Hyundai Elantra Eco

    On the San Diego waterfront earlier this week.​

    I am by no means the best rideshare earnings optimizer, the best rideshare driver, or the best story teller. What I am possibly the best at is documenting the details while still holding down a sky high 4.98 of 5-star rating on Uber and 5.0 of 5 stars on Lyft. The average driver without any of the above averages 4.81 by comparison. I may also have a leg up on every other driver when it comes to the lowest cost new vehicle purchases and rideshare efficiency within a given vehicle platform for some unknown reason? ;)

    Just 75k more miles from Dec. 31, 2018 to go and the study will be complete!

    Last edited: Oct 22, 2019
    EdwinTheMagnificent likes this.
  18. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    Week 3 of the San Diego capacity factor study yields the following.

    Lyft - 200.7 miles
    Uber - 613.5 miles
    Private - 94 miles

    908.2 paid miles vs 1419.0 miles at 27 mph avg speed equating to 52.5 hours and a cap factor of 64.0 percent.

    The cumulative includes

    Week 1: 2,043.7 miles traveled vs 1,240.0 paid miles - 24 mph avg speed - 80.5 hours
    Week 2: 2,094.1 miles traveled vs 1,197.4 paid miles - 26 mph avg speed - 77.5 hours
    Week 3: 1,419.0 miles traveled vs 908.2 paid miles - 27 mph avg speed - 52.5 hours

    Cumulative of 5,556.8 miles traveled vs 3,335.6 paid miles equates to a cap factor of 60.2 percent at a non-weighted avg. speed of 25.66 mph.

    In Chicago, my cap factor was approx. 50 percent with average speeds of 20 to 22 mph.

    BillLin likes this.
  19. jcp123

    jcp123 Caliente!

    Fascinating reads. My family and I took our first-ever Lyft rides on a recent trip to Dallas. It worked well and for an 8-mile ride, we tipped both drivers $5 cash.

    First guy was in a Sentra and though he drove fairly aggressively, I caught his FCD with a 31.8mpg reading. Was pretty impressed considering. The second driver had a brand new Fusion hybrid, still in paper tags. Pretty cool stuff, actually.

    It really is interesting to see what it's like in the captain's chair for you.
    xcel and BillLin like this.
  20. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi JCP123:

    Thanks for reading yet other one of my auto novels filled with more drivel than substance.

    I updated the 2018 TCO and earnings with even more and corrected detail above. I did include brakes in the equation even though they fell outside of the 2018 control period as most are going to go through brakes a hell of a lot faster. I hope I did not miss anything although the wiper blades and air filter are not included as again, it was a recent 2019 expense.

    BillLin likes this.

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