2017 Hyundai Ioniq HEV Available Now, BEV in April, and PHEV This Fall

Discussion in 'Hyundai' started by xcel, Feb 15, 2017.

  1. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    I just completed the Speed vs FE data collection. While I wait for a few more pieces of HW to get my new laptops 1 TB drive filled with the files and programs from my 750 GB laptop drive and build a proper Speed vs FE graph in Excel, I can say the 55/54 mpg city/highway rated Ioniq Limited did not reach its EPA highway at 65 mph and was way off the mark at 70 mph. Yet during the day, pulling 60+ at PSLs on the Interstate is relatively easy. More to come.

    Wayne
     
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  2. thunderstruck

    thunderstruck Super Moderator

    As someone who had a Sonata Hybrid which only got slightly better FE than my 300 HP (chipped) GTI, I'm not terribly surprised.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  3. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    HI Thunderstruck:

    Your chipped VW GTI must be one super efficient GTI as our last drive of the 16 Sonata Hybrid was eye opening. ;)

    2016 Hyundai Sonata Hybrid

    [​IMG]

    Wayne
     
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  4. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    This one was a SOB to tackle given the widely variable SoC swings as expected.

    The 55/54 mpgUS city/highway rated 2017 Hyundai Ioniq Limited is hanging on the edge of its EPA highway rating. I was concerned about this from our first drive at the short lead a few months back. The 55/54 mpgUS city/highway rated SEL uses the same tires and wheels as the 58/59 mpg city/highway rated Ioniq in Blue trim plus ~ 50 lbs. The Limited is shod with 17” alloys and tires yet is rated the same as the SEL. I was guessing that the Limited is going to come in about 2 to 3 mpg short of its 54 mpg highway rating due to the larger, heavier wheels.

    The steady state(s) were undertaken just after midnight this morning with temperatures ranging from 59 to 61 degrees F. Winds were ~ 5 mph out of the WSW during the northbound and southbound measured segments.

    The Ioniq’s SoC swing was as much as 4-bars from the beginning of an individual run to the end of the same at a given speed so I calculated the NB and SB actual results by adding or subtracting +/- 3.0 mpg for each SoC pip up or down from the initial SoC at the flying aFCD reset start and the flying finish where the results were recorded at 50 mph.

    I used +/- 2.5 mpg for each SoC pip between start and finish at 55 mph, +/- 2.0 mpg at 60 mph, +/- 1.75 mpg at 65 mph, and +/- 1.5 mpg at 70 mph. SoC pips mean less at higher speeds given the shorter distance traveled with each pip consumed. It is a true guesstimate but one I suspect is within +/- 2.5 percent up or down from the results posted in the graph below.

    The Limited’s 1.008 aFCD offset was calculated from the Road America to IL/WI border drive last week revealing an actual 87.9 vs. 87.2 mpg indicated.

    2017 Hyundai Ioniq Limited

    [​IMG]
    A quick trip to a Best Buy in Milwaukee to pick up a new Laptop yesterday afternoon.​

    The 54 mpg EPA highway crossover occurred at a calculated 65.4 mph. Considering the Ioniq Limited’s trace 67.5 mph (see below), the rating should be 52 mpg highway.

    The indicated speeds showed 1.0 mph over the actual speed at 50 and 55 mph and dead on from 60 to 70 mph per the Garmin.

    2017 Hyundai Ioniq Limited Speed vs FE

    [​IMG]

    I am going to guess the Ioniq SEL will come in more along the lines of 56 to 57 mpg at 67.5 mph – 2 to 3 mpg above its EPA highway rating, and the Blue Trim at 56.5 and 57.5 mpg – 1 to 2 mpg below its EPA highway rating, at 67.5 mph. Both are rough estimates at this point as I have not driven either on other than rain soaked roads and/or in heavy traffic for much shorter distances at the short lead.

    If only I could see a percentage of SoC with a late model SG-II to tighten up the uncertainly I built into the graph above…

    Wayne
     
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  5. thunderstruck

    thunderstruck Super Moderator

    But notice my HSH was a 2012. Could not come near what Hyundai claimed for it. Hoping they are being more truthful in their ratings nowadays, which it sounds like you are achieving.
     
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  6. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Thunderstruck:

    That is the same vehicle I crossed the country at > 62 mpg and set a 48-State GWR with the same drivertain in a Kia Optima Hybrid.

    [​IMG]

    Its 34/39 mpg rating was pretty solid to me. By comparison to everything except for the Accord Hybrid in 2015 and second gen HSH in 2016. My wife is hitting EPA on her San Diego commute in the 17 HSH Limited over the past 5 months. And she confounds me by running A/C with the Pano roof open too! :(

    Wayne
     
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  7. thunderstruck

    thunderstruck Super Moderator

    A lot of people drive with the windows down and the A/C on so they can impress you with the music they have blaring out of the stereo. That's the new way of wooing members of the opposite sex.
     
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  8. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    Ah,. .ahem,.

    Interesting to note,.. the 'highway' (above 60 mph) steady states of the 54 mpg hwy rated ioniq are identical to those of my 42 mpg hwy rated civic.

    /I wonder if the ioniq's 6 speed DCT is hunting constantly on a rolling hill 70 mph trip? Or is the electric motor able to fill in enough to keep the shifting in check?

    --only
    104 hp @ 5,700 rpm
    TORQUE 109 lb-ft @ 4,000 rpm
    --available from the gasoline side of the ioniq.

    // and while I'm being critical, large and frequent Soc swings will put some wear on the battery. Hopefully the battery doesn't wear out too quickly, or Hyundai prices a replacement pack reasonably (something we haven't seen from a hybrid OEM yet, that I'm aware of)
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2017
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  9. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Carcus:

    The competitive comparison against the Civic sedan, Elantra Eco, Prime and Two Eco do not show the Ioniq Limited in a good light either.

    I did not feel the DCT hunting during the 500 miles I drove it but there are only 2 to 3 percent max grades here in Northern IL through Central Wisc.

    Regarding the Traction battery, Hyundai uses a different Li-Ion (polymer) chemistry that is meant to be cycled hundreds of thousands of times with little loss of cap. It has to be well controlled between its approximate 25 to 80 percent total usable cap. Drop to 0 and you can toast the pack in a single cycle iirc. The only way I know how that could happen is if you ran out of fuel and the traction battery will spin the motor until it's dead too. Hyundai may have fixed that glitch from the first gen Hybrids they released between 2011 and 2015 too?

    Wayne
     
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  10. BillLin

    BillLin PV solar, geothermal HVAC, hybrids and electrics

    The lifetime battery warranty also puts the Ioniq owner's mind at ease, at least in that regard.
     
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  11. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    That seems to be the "trend" (or maybe just the realization) -- lots of cycles in the mid range doesn't have much of an effect.

    But frequent top offs, high heat, and operation in the very low Soc region will threaten battery life.
     
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  12. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

    Yesterday, I drove my sister's 2016 Hyundai Sonata hybrid from Driggs to Idaho Falls, ID--about 75 miles. Ten miles of 55mph and the rest 65mph. I got 70mpg for the trip! I had stars in my eyes imagining how much better the Ioniq would get on the trip since the HSH is about 500lbs heavier and less aero. Two people in the car and a trunk full of crap and we still got 70mpg!

    What a disappointment the Ioniq LTD is! I feel I could have gotten close to 65mpg at a steady 65mph in the HSH. Hard to believe Hyundai could find a way to make the Ioniq such an underachiever.
     
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  13. alster

    alster Well-Known Member

    In looking at operating cost with the Ioniq hybrid vs the 2016-17 Prius it appears the Ioniq is more costly to operate. I understand that there is a drive belt that needs to
    be replaced every 75,000 miles in the Ioniq. The Prius has no drive belts, or any belts to replace. So is it known what the drive belt cost to replace in the Ioniq. Or what happens if you continue pass the 75,000 mile mark.
     
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  14. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

    On the other hand, the Ioniq has no pb-acid battery to replace. The 12-v auxiliary battery is lithium-polymer and has a lifetime warranty.

    The more I think about it, the more I feel that Hyundai just doesn't have something programmed right in the hybrid magic factory for the Ioniq. I'll bet the Niro's steady-states would be better than these for the Ioniq LTD.
     
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  15. BillLin

    BillLin PV solar, geothermal HVAC, hybrids and electrics

    If I had to choose between replacing a small lead-acid battery versus a timing belt, I think my choice would be easy. :) I hope the gasoline-hybrid engine designers consider the probably longer serviceable life of the engine with less run time, provided the non-metallic parts don't just wither and fall apart from age.
     
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  16. seftonm

    seftonm Veteran Staff Member

    I doubt it's a timing belt if the interval is 75k miles, maybe an accessory belt. Even that sounds like a very short interval, though.
     
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  17. BillLin

    BillLin PV solar, geothermal HVAC, hybrids and electrics

    I think it is cool that these things have the potential of being tweaked after it leaves the factory. I was surprised and impressed that Ford has the Android Auto and Apple CarPlay as downloads on the newer (newest?) models.

    One thing that bothers me is that Kia doesn't have the same battery warranty as Hyundai. Is Kia riding on Hyundai's 'coat-tails' with buyers possibly thinking the battery must be good enough since Hyundai has the lifetime warranty on the same battery and with Kia not actually having to incur warranty cost on the inevitable few that fail past the warranty period?
     
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  18. BillLin

    BillLin PV solar, geothermal HVAC, hybrids and electrics

    Sorry, my mind inserted 'timing' while thinking about belts... I don't know what belts are in the Ioniq. In fact, I didn't check to see if it has electrically-powered AC versus an engine belt driven one. I did not immediately find answers when I went looking for Ioniq AC info.

    Edit: Something just crossed my mind. The Ioniq EV must have electrically-driven AC, so I would hope they used the same system in the hybrid and plug-in. Then again, the transmission is different in the EV, so who knows... :)

    The Prius Prime is looking better to me day by day. Heat without a warm engine and more!
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2017
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  19. MaxxMPG

    MaxxMPG Hasta Lavista AAA-Vee Von't Be Bach

    The Ioniq was billed as a "single motor system" so I didn't know they were still using the HSG like the Sonata hybrid.
    For that bolt-on HSG, the belt is a reinforced rubber band that is little more than a heavy duty accessory drive belt. The reason for the 5/60 belt interval is that the belt is exposed to heat/moisture/contaminants because it's exposed at the front of the engine, and the tension needed for the torque transfer adds to fatigue. If the belt breaks, the car can't move because the HSG spins the engine up via the belt.

    I have read of people changing the belt themselves, and the part itself is not all that bad in terms of cost. But I do agree that the design is not as elegant as the "MG2" buried in the transaxle as you see in the Toyota HSD.
     
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  20. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

    • Belt drive for the starter/generator is a standard feature of a P2-style hybrid drive. I don't know of any P2 hybrid system that operates any other way. The belt is very robust looking and it's very easy to access on my sister's hybrid Sonata but less so on the Ioniq and Niro. Toyota's power-split style hybrid system has the advantage of no drive belt but has the disadvantage of requiring two large, expensive electric motors that must be sized to counteract the torque of the engine. The P2 is slightly less efficient than the power-split at low speeds but more efficient at higher speeds because the power-split has to expend electric power to hold a gear ratio. Biggest advantage of the P2 is cost. It's much less expensive than the power-split, and since cost is the major over-riding impediment to public acceptance of hybrids, that's a big advantage.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2017
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