Steady State Speed vs Fuel Economy results

Discussion in 'General' started by seftonm, Mar 22, 2014.

  1. phoebeisis

    phoebeisis Well-Known Member

    Right- at 60 mph my guess is a V-6 Accord will get 38 mpg-
    But The Hotrod Prius I was suggesting to make TD cars absolutely pointless-
    probably would get maybe 45-50 mpg at 60 mph-
    but even with a 200 hp ICE and a slightly jacked traction motor
    I don't think it would be quicker that a 280hp Accord V-6( 280 hp is a pure guess)

    And yeah the whole point of TD small cars now-is they are more fun than a Prius-

    But we well know-if people ONLY bought cars with appliance worth-function and mpg-in mind- no one would buy anything but a Prius-
    For a transportation appliance -the PRIUS is unbeatable
    Four adults-one leggy greyhound(in sleeping position)- 50-55 mpg city or hy-
    and lowest TCO

    But cars aren't bought with sense or just dollars and cents-in mind
    Even you frugal cheapskates-want some fun-
    and many of you are reformed-barely reformed-motor heads
    and that is the WHY of WHY you guys LOVE TDs
    all that UMMMM-PFFFFFF torque
    Now that TDs aren't stinky sooty rattling POS-
    their fun quotient-yeah sure beats a poor Prius

    Still the Normal engine-300 hp- 1/2 ton pickup-just $25000 or so for a crew cab -
    30 mpg at 60 mph-wins the "Who would have thought prize"
    It would make my Suburban a 30 mpg trip vehicle-instead of a 21mpg vehicle(or perhaps 25-26 mpg for current ones-depending on how much GM gamed the EPA with their 5.3)
  2. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    I'm pretty far past the point of wanting a vehicle for "fun" . And though I can go on and on about diesel torque and stuff like that , a Toyota hybrid is what I really want. I can get used to the steering and braking response in any thing I drive after a little while.
  3. phoebeisis

    phoebeisis Well-Known Member

    You will love the Prius them.
    My 2006-actually feels ZIPPY from 20-50mph-yeah better than OK acceleration

    And by comparison to say a 1980 Chevette MT if is a freakin dragster
    Yeah ask Wayne-he had one-
    The chevette-fairly typical late 70's early 1980's small economy car-
    it was a 20 second 0-60 car-but it was completely adequate-acceleration wise-
    Granted you needed to use your head when merging onto interstates-but the 55mph national speed limit made it a bit easier(yeah folks didn't drive 55mph-but MOST stayed under 65mph)

    You will find-and have found-the prius has PLENTY of acceleration- 11 second 0-60 for the 2004-2009-and a bit quicker for the 1.8's I guess
    Much quicker than the HCH2

    And I would trade the 3-4 mpg you give up to get the Prius V-now no way i am ever going to kick out $30,000 for a car again-
    but if I win the lottery-the Prius V would top my list-along with a 2006 Suburban(for travel-pretty sure I could get 24mpg out of it-hy)- and a Volt

    And the Prius brakes just fine-hell drive my 1998 Suburban if you want crummy from factory braking-handling is just fine, not sporty but EXTREMELY comfortable

    The steering-nothing quirky about Toyota steering-much like the overboosted steering in the Suburban-turn wheel-it goes where you point it-just fine
    No -the Prius does everything just fine-but it isn't FUN another 80 hp and stiffer suspension-guess it would "fun"

    Yeah-get a PRIUS!
  4. some_other_dave

    some_other_dave Well-Known Member

    I hope I never get to that point. Besides, some of the "fun" is working the aFCD up into the 50 MPG range!! :D

  5. jcp123

    jcp123 Caliente!

    Lose the statement styling and make it look like they care about interior materials, and even I'd have a hard time resisting the Prius.
  6. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    After looking at the new 3-cyl MINI , I'm really thinking it could be fun AND efficient.

    I am missing my manual transmission more than ever.
  7. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    All cars make a statement with their styling. Would you rather have one that states "I don't care about aerodynamics or efficiency" ?
  8. phoebeisis

    phoebeisis Well-Known Member

    When the Prius-2004-first came out
    The Space Ship styling really stood out
    I never found it off-putting-more Flash Gordon
    The styling now looks sorta "plain"
    Modern minivans-look like GIGANTIC PRIUS-es
    odd they are so down a hy mpg relative to the Prius
    they use 1.75X the fuel at 60 mph- 58/33(guessing a modern minivan gets 33mpg at 60 mph)
    Why are minivans so down on hy mpg-my guess-other than the obvious increase in frontal area-is the lower rpms allowed by the traction motor acting as an electronic flywheel-so built in anti lugging device allows an average RPM of maybe just 1200-with an open low pumping losses-throttle- clever Toyota

    Anyway the Prius styling disappears into the background once you own live with one.
    The POOR-ISH rear view-and the tire eating are about the only negatives(OEM tires last just 25,000-30,000 miles??)
    I wouldn't object to Toyota producing a sporty one
    but guessing that Lexus is sorta' doing that-so are some of the germans-so why bother(and honda would do it better-so why bother-the original Hybrid Honda accord was a rocket 5.5 0-60-poor mpg of course)
  9. RedylC94

    RedylC94 Well-Known Member

    Yep. Much the same was true of the original Taurus, the first front-drive Mazda 626, and other "aero" designs introduced around the same time (mid-80s). They were ridiculed for "jelly-bean" styling, yet now look very plain.

    I like the current Prius styling, at least as viewed from the side.
  10. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    I like it, too. The c works better for me , budget-wise and for tight parking spaces I sometimes have to use.
    Mostly, styling doesn't affect me much. I want something that FUNCTIONS.
  11. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    Here is the latest from the 2014 Toyota Prius 5 with the 17" Performance Plus rims and tires.

    Using basic linear analysis between 65 and 70 mph, the 50 mpg combined rating occurred at 66.6 mph. Not bad and not great. If we were to use the 48 mpg highway rating, its a little better. Even with the big wheels and not so efficient tires, the Prius crossed at 68.4 mph.

  12. jcp123

    jcp123 Caliente!

    Prius just kind of is synonymous with hippie for me. Living with one is fine but I don't want to throw that image out there. And honestly, the interior materials are dreadful for a car with a sticker of $20+K. I don't mind the LCD display for the "higher functions", but am I the only person who thinks of a craptacular crop of 80s and early 90s cars when I see digital gauges for everything else? And like the Echo, I'd much prefer the basic gauge set to be in front of me rather then centre mount.

    By pure aesthetics it is better looking than the Echo I drive. As much as I like the car itself, the look is awful. Cheap inside, but then, it started at around $10k.

    I'd much rather have something that looks like a regular car a la Camry/Accord/Sonata hybrids, et. al.
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2014
  13. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    The 2014 Hyundai Elantra SE speed vs. FE graph is complete.


    Using linear analysis between, the 38 MPG highway rated Elantra killed it by crossing over its EPA at an excellent 73.3 mph. Not many gas engine vehicles do that!

  14. PaleMelanesian

    PaleMelanesian Beat the System Staff Member

    My Fit is one, it hits the rated 33 mpg highway at ~73 mph.
  15. jcp123

    jcp123 Caliente!

    These cars are impressive on steady state numbers...any chance there's an Echo you can test? I'd wager my Echo comes pretty close to that.

    Didn't think so.

    I'd do it myself but I can't find a good level road to test on, nor do I have cruise. Highway trips mean pretty much constant throttle and yield well over 40mpg (44-47) with a speed averaging around 60. Haven't done "manual cruise control" on this one, but I bet it'd still be over 40mpg, maybe 42. With old highway EPA at 38 on this car and new EPA at 34, I think the car would have to be flogged to get 38mpg on the open road, let alone 34.
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2014
  16. basjoos

    basjoos Well-Known Member

    Usually the most level roads in a region are those that parallel railroad tracks. They surveyed and sought out the most level terrain when laying track, so any road that paralleled them would likely be the most level to be found in your area. Another source of fairly level roads are the older roads that were developed in the horse and wagon era since, with only 1 to 6 horsepower to work with, they sought out more level grades than modern road builders do. These older roads often have names like "Old Abbeville Hwy" as opposed to the newer "Abbeville Hwy" which is the main road into town today.
  17. PaleMelanesian

    PaleMelanesian Beat the System Staff Member

    jcp - I think I see a flat spot on 31 near Chandler, where it goes past the north end of the lake. I use 31 between the interstate and Longview, where it goes across the Sabine flood plain. The 155 bridge across Lake Palestine is over a mile long and flat.

    Google maps - terrain mode is your friend.
  18. jcp123

    jcp123 Caliente!

    Ah yes the 155 bridge...that is a good one.

    Basjoos, I love the suggestions. I never thought about either of those, I will have to keep my eyes out.
  19. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Basjoos:

    Great ideas! Both my I-94 between the IL/WI border and Milwaukee and the I-5 in the Camp Pendleton area parallel tracks.

    2014 Audi A7 TDI quattro


    The linear analysis shows the Audi A7 TDI crossing its 38 mpg highway rating at 71.6 mph.

  20. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:


    Temps from 65 to 66 degrees F and 0 mph winds.

    The Prius c Speed vs. FE graph reveals the Prius c crosses its 46 mpg highway rating at 69.6 mph.


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