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The Solution for Peak Oil Could be Worse than the Problem

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Old 02-14-2008, 02:24 PM
Chuck Chuck is offline
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The Solution for Peak Oil Could be Worse than the Problem

There is no way out of this: on a finite planet with tight food supplies you either compete with the hungry or clear new land for biofuels...

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/Oil_Pump_at_twilight.jpg
George Monbiot - alternet.org - Feb 12, 2008

Now they might start sitting up. They wouldn't listen to the environmentalists or even the geologists. Can governments ignore the capitalists?

A report published last week by Citibank, and so far unremarked by the media, proposes "genuine difficulties" in increasing the production of crude oil, "particularly after 2012." Though 175 big drilling projects will start in the next four years, "the fear remains that most of this supply will be offset by high levels of decline".

The oil industry has scoffed at the notion that oil supplies might peak, but "recent evidence of failed production growth would tend to shift the burden of proof onto the producers", as they have been unable to respond to the massive rise in prices. "Total global liquid hydrocarbon production has essentially flatlined since mid 2005 at just north of 85 million barrels per day."...[Read More]
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Old 02-15-2008, 04:31 AM
Elixer Elixer is offline
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Re: The Solution for Peak Oil Could be Worse than the Problem

I think the future will come down to the RRRs. And I'll say them in the correct order: Reduce, Reuse, Recycle. The first objective is to reduce world oil use, then reuse materials like fry oil, plastics, plant materials to make ethanol, and then recycle.
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Old 02-15-2008, 07:01 AM
lamebums lamebums is offline
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Re: The Solution for Peak Oil Could be Worse than the Problem

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Originally Posted by Elixer View Post
I think the future will come down to the RRRs. And I'll say them in the correct order: Reduce, Reuse, Recycle. The first objective is to reduce world oil use, then reuse materials like fry oil, plastics, plant materials to make ethanol, and then recycle.
Here's the problem, though. We can reduce consumption, but we can never fully reverse what we do, or reduce it to zero.

"We have recycling programs..."
"The recycling programs came too late. Now, we're out of fossil fuels, our ozone is down to 40%..." - the dude in Lost in Space, or whatever it was
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Old 02-16-2008, 09:16 PM
cuchulain cuchulain is offline
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Re: The Solution for Peak Oil Could be Worse than the Problem

We need to put PO in perspective, after peak we expect a 4-5% decrease in annual production over previous years production. So we have to add new energy and/or cut consumption at this rate. There is so much "low hanging fruit" in personal transport. I cut my gasoline consumption in two years by 70%, changing to used hybrid and reducing driving distance so that puts me well ahead. There are other ways that this could have been done, car sharing, walking, cycling and public transport. Every time you visit the auto dealer, tell them your requirements for your next auto, i.e, next car should have 100% better FE. I personally want an EV or PHEV, tell them that is what you want and that you have no intention of buying a new car until your requirements are met. Certainly where I am in Japan what you tell the dealer goes back to the manufacturer.

Even if you do not believe in PO, the other reasons for reduced consumption like "Energy Independence" and "Climate Change" are more than apparent. Using the Food supply for wasteful personal transport is more dangerous than PO alone.

Good Luck
Andrew
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Old 02-17-2008, 07:27 AM
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Re: The Solution for Peak Oil Could be Worse than the Problem

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Originally Posted by lamebums View Post
Here's the problem, though. We can reduce consumption, but we can never fully reverse what we do, or reduce it to zero.
of course we can....

we can make ozone if we need to...
the climate effects just are large enough to make the production profitable.

we can ban pollution causing transportation and factories...
produce all energy from RE sources....
it would just increase the cost of everything... which people do not want.
and would probably fight against

we can recycle everything ... including people... SOYLENT GREEN

open up to mine the resources of old land fills...
but it is not yet cost effective

we have the technology.... we can remake EVERYTHING ...
We just don't wana... it cost too much ...
we don't want to change out standard of living....
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Old 02-20-2008, 09:53 PM
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xcel xcel is online now
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Re: The Solution for Peak Oil Could be Worse than the Problem

Hi Iamian:

___In other words, we are screwed

___Good Luck

___Wayne
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Old 02-20-2008, 11:14 PM
ILAveo ILAveo is offline
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Re: The Solution for Peak Oil Could be Worse than the Problem

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Originally Posted by iamian View Post
.....

open up to mine the resources of old land fills...
but it is not yet cost effective

....
I've sampled landfills. I lack words to describe what it can be like. Drillers frequently use respirators while drilling landfill wells because too many dangerous unknown substances are buried there; I suppose extracting resources from landfills other than through limited methane recovery wells would require efficient advanced robotic technology we don't have yet. It will be a very long time before anybody really wants to mine landfills.

For reasons that I don't like to dwell on, I agree with Lamebums about the incomplete reversibility of our activities. I think in the long run we're all dead, so we're left with doing the best we can for as long as we can.
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