245MPG car- it's electric!

[EnVironmental Motors.com]

It would seem to me that the best way to save fuel is not use any at all. The Zenn electric car gets an equivalent 245 MPG. NEV's are totally affordable and can be used in addition to your gas vehicle. You use your NEV for all your off-freeway driving and only use the gas car when you need to go somewhere farther. My customers have told me they ended up using their NEV way more than they expected and they are saving anywhere from $60- 150 a month in gas. Until the affordable freeway speed electrics start coming out in 2009, NEV's are a prefect, affordable solution that you can do right now.

[lightfoot]

Great but please post the calculations and assumptions that yield the figure of 245mpg. Nothing against EV's, but we will eventually need a way to compare their FE's with ICE-powered vehicles.

[MikeN]

Plus.. $60-150/mth savings? And how much is a NEV plus registration, etc?

[Jimmy]

Originally Posted by EnVironmental Motors.com

It would seem to me that the best way to save fuel is not use any at all. The Zenn electric car gets an equivalent 245 MPG. NEV's are totally affordable and can be used in addition to your gas vehicle. You use your NEV for all your off-freeway driving and only use the gas car when you need to go somewhere farther. My customers have told me they ended up using their NEV way more than they expected and they are saving anywhere from $60- 150 a month in gas. Until the affordable freeway speed electrics start coming out in 2009, NEV's are a prefect, affordable solution that you can do right now.

Well, sort of, if you live in Florida or another location with a warm climate. The Zenn does not perform nearly as well in areas that have cold winters.

For example, in Ohio where I live, a range of 8 miles is the norm during the winter months. This serves perhaps 10 percent of my local driving needs. At that range, I am able to use my 2007 Zenn 2.22 to get to the nearest grocery store, and that's about it. For most of my errands at this time of year, I still must use my ICE vehicle. My dealer did not try to mislead me, though. He was upfront about the limited winter range, so it came as no surprise.

By the way, my Zenn is equipped with the higher range Discover AGM batteries. I'd hate to see what the range of the Zenn is with regular deep cell batteries.

[laurieaw]

we have a member on here with a zenn, and he is not particularly impressed with the service and support of his vehicle.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showt...highlight=zenn

[iamian]

Originally Posted by lightfoot

Great but please post the calculations and assumptions that yield the figure of 245mpg. Nothing against EV's, but we will eventually need a way to compare their FE's with ICE-powered vehicles.

While I don't have all the numbers for NEVs...

For a EV converted Insight at low speeds those are about the right numbers.

A EV Insight under 35 MPH from two samples seems to average a bit over 9 mile per kWh.

and about 6 miles per kWh in general over 35 mph.

---------------------

EV Insight real world sample #1>

This Complete EV converted Insight
http://www.evalbum.com/461

shows:
At 20-25 mph, ~9.7 mi/kwh,
At 35 mph, ~9.46 mi/kwh,
At 45 mph, ~8.69 mi/kwh,
At 50 mph, ~5.39 mi/kwh
City driving (stops), ~6.84 mi/kwh


EV Insight real world data sample #2>
Mike D
uses a Electric only drive...
As posted he gets 35 to 45 miles out of a 3.84 kWh charge.
at the low side of 35 mile he is getting 9.1 miles per kWh
which agrees with EV insight data sample #1 for under 40MPH speeds.

---------------------

http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricit ... 5_6_a.html

shows the average cost $ across the US for a kWh

In 2007 the whole US average $0.1094 per kWh

-----------------------

$0.1094 per kWh / 9 miles per kWh = ~$0.0122 per mile

$3.00 per Gallon Gas / 0.0122 = ~246 MPG needed to break even.

[EnVironmental Motors.com]

Originally Posted by lightfoot

Great but please post the calculations and assumptions that yield the figure of 245mpg. Nothing against EV's, but we will eventually need a way to compare their FE's with ICE-powered vehicles.

A gallon of gas has an energy equivalent of 33.5kwh. One gallon of gas provides the same energy as fully charging the Zenn about 7 times. This is an equivalent fuel economy of 7 x35 miles per charge or 245 miles per gallon.
Estimated Annual "Fuel" cost: $210 (calculated at 30miles/day & 10cents/kwh residential electrical rate.

[EnVironmental Motors.com]

Originally Posted by laurieaw

we have a member on here with a zenn, and he is not particularly impressed with the service and support of his vehicle.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showt...highlight=zenn

I saw that. It seems to be more of issue with his dealership than the Zenn itself. Unfortunately he is not getting the dealer support he needs. The bad experience with the dealership hopefully won't overshadow his experience with the car itself. It's about more than just saving some gas money. When you drive electric you're offsetting the carbon released into the air by a gas car.

[EnVironmental Motors.com]

Originally Posted by Jimmy

Well, sort of, if you live in Florida or another location with a warm climate. The Zenn does not perform nearly as well in areas that have cold winters.

For example, in Ohio where I live, a range of 8 miles is the norm during the winter months. This serves perhaps 10 percent of my local driving needs. At that range, I am able to use my 2007 Zenn 2.22 to get to the nearest grocery store, and that's about it. For most of my errands at this time of year, I still must use my ICE vehicle. My dealer did not try to mislead me, though. He was upfront about the limited winter range, so it came as no surprise.

By the way, my Zenn is equipped with the higher range Discover AGM batteries. I'd hate to see what the range of the Zenn is with regular deep cell batteries.

I only sell my Zenns with the AGM batteries. For 2008 they will be standard. It's true, EV's don't perform as well in the cold, but if you charging the car in a semi-warm temp, say 65 or above, you'll get most of your range back. There are actually heaters for the batteries that can be installed in the car for just this kind of thing. MC Electric Vehicles in Seattle, WA has them. You can contact Steve Mayeda at steve@stevemayeda.com for more info.

[Tochatihu]

Welcome. I think that all electric vehicles have a place in cleanMPG discossuions. Here is a list of links to EV associations, etc:

http://pages.prodigy.net/noela/linksto.htm

And, in Washington

http://www.electricdrive.org/

DAS