Not working out so well

[JesusFreak7]

Hello everyone! Just wanted to share my experience and ask a few questions. I own a 2001 Ford Escape. Never got over 19 MPG even though the sticker said 20/24. No matter what I do 19MPG. Makes me crazy. I always keep up on my service and follow it by the book. 3 years ago I changed jobs and only live 4 miles from work. I don't feel safe walking or riding a bike because of the busy 2 lane 55mph (but everyone drives 65) highway. My vehicle is paid for but I have considered buying a hybrid.

Would I really benefit? I would have a lot of short trips. Also, I have been following a lot of your techniques in my current vehicle and managed to get 20mpg out of 1 tank of gas (boo). Any ideas? I am open for all suggestions.

[Chuck]

JesusFreak7,

I think your benchmark should be what you were getting instead of the EPA.

Both the short trips and winter is going to really hurt your fuel economy. On my car, coolant can make it to 195F in 1-2 miles during the summer, but 5-6 miles when it's freezing....your Escape may not be warmed up at the end of your trip.

Recently making a trip from Minneapolis to Dallas and back, my instant fuel economy is significantly higher when the outdoor temperature is 55-60F or higher.

Hang in there.

[desdemona]

Originally Posted by JesusFreak7

Hello everyone! Just wanted to share my experience and ask a few questions. I own a 2001 Ford Escape. Never got over 19 MPG even though the sticker said 20/24. No matter what I do 19MPG. Makes me crazy. I always keep up on my service and follow it by the book. 3 years ago I changed jobs and only live 4 miles from work. I don't feel safe walking or riding a bike because of the busy 2 lane 55mph (but everyone drives 65) highway. My vehicle is paid for but I have considered buying a hybrid.

Would I really benefit? I would have a lot of short trips. Also, I have been following a lot of your techniques in my current vehicle and managed to get 20mpg out of 1 tank of gas (boo). Any ideas? I am open for all suggestions.

Hi,

First thing is winter gas mileage is lower, so that you are learning this on the hardest time of year. You should have some gains in the spring.
Second, short trips are poorer. If you can't really warm up your engine, then the results won't be as good as if you were able to. I don't know how seriously I would take the old EPA nos. (which I assume are what you are using) esp. on a Ford Escape. YMMV applies. And esp. on a big car like that. A hybrid would get much better mileage, but you would get nice mileage on something like a Honda Fit or even a more mid-size car. If you need a truck, I mean if you REALLY need a truck, something like a MT Ranger can't get nice mileage. (Most people dont' really need these things. I was in a Yukon a couple days ago, it does NOT fit that many people. We had 5 in there and you could not have had more.)

I think you are doing ok for cold weather, short trips, and not really being able to slow down much. Remember that you are also effected by things like hilly driving, etc. Right now I am sometimes getting under 30 mpg-- it gets cold and windy (which can hurt a bunch), and I am going uphill.

Learning to do DWL will help a bunch on hills, but there are limitations.

--des

[phoebeisis]

JesusFreak-Your vehicle is the 4 cyl,right?Like Delta Flyer says,short trips, are absolute MPG KILLERS!!!ESPECIALLY IF YOU LIVE IN A COLD CLIMATE-I didn't notice where you live.
For example.From dead cold on a 55 degree day, our Prius got just 27 mpg on a 1 mile trip.The Suburban got 10 mpg same trip.Now, if the motor is completely warm,I could easily-very easily-get over 50 mpg with the Prius(some here could literally get 100 mpg with the Prius by keeping it all electric).I can get close to 14 mpg with the Suburban on the same trip.
Your best bet might be something to preheat the block,and radiator.There are block heaters you can buy-folks in very cold climates use them.If you aren't in a really cold climate just turn it on about 30 minute before starting it the 1st time.
You use the Pulse and Glide technique.This is worth at least 2-3 mpg with my guzzling Suburban.I'm not that adept with it,so others could do better.In mixed city driving.With P&G I get 15.5 tanks with the Suburban.Without P&G I would get about 13 mpg.
P&G just means you accelerate up to the speed limit-not slowly,normally accelerate to the limit-and them completely take your foot off the accelerator and Glide to about 5 miles per hour below the limit.In city driving one cycle will get you close to your next full stop!!If it doesn't then repeat P&G.
Another technique-that I don't use-is to shut the motor off at redlights,and long stop signs.On a recent 2.7 mile trip I used .7 liters and got about 14.5 mpg.If I had shut the motor down during the 6 minutes of idling at 2.5 liters/hour,I would have used .25 liters less fuel.My fuel use would have been .45 liters for 2.7 miles.The mpg would have been close to 22mpg!This ignores the increased idle I would get because the motor/cat con would have to reheat.I don't shut the Suburban off because it is 10 years and 200,000 miles old.I'm concerned that it might reach the end of its life-the motor or the starter-a bit sooner if I shut down at lights.Your vehicle is much newer,and you know how it was maintained.If you have lots of redlights on your commute,shutting the motor off at redlights can really improve your mpg.Obviously Toyota doesn't think it is a big deal to shut the motor off(Prius).In the old days the "Bible" said most of the wear was at startup.(of course at initial startup for the day,the oil has had lots of time to drain off important parts.Now oils are much better,and shutting down for 2 minutes isn't like shutting down for 12 hours at night.Once I change the motor to a new one,and put in a new starter I'll shut off at stoplights.
Good luck,
Charlie
PS-The breakeven for selling your Escape,and buying a Hybrid Escape would be something like X/30 + 7000= X/20
7000 = 10X/600
420,000 miles to breakeven.Assuming your Escape is worth $21000 less than the Hybrid Escape-gas averages $3 gallon. 20 MPG WITH ESCAPE vs 30 mpg with Hybrid Escape.$21000=7000 gallons


On a Prius it would be
X/50 +5000= X/20
5000= 3/100X
166,000 miles to breakeven if gas stays at $3 gallon,and you buy a $23000 prius with $8000 trade in.$15000 is 5000 gallons.I'm using gallons used,and converting the extra cost of the hybrid into gallons,so the same number of gallons are "used" on both sides of equation. The Prius uses X/50 GALLONS+ the extra 5000 gallons in cost premium.X is breakeven miles.Your Escape uses Xmiles/20 mpg gallons.
If gasoline averages $5/gal breakeven would be 100,000 miles.
My guess is the $5 a gallon is much,much more likely than $3 gallon.
The Prius or HCH II will save you $$(after 100,000 miles),and use less gas the whole time.
From a $ standpoint-trying to improve mpg on your current Escape is the way to go.
If you have an extra $15000 the Prius will payoff -probably at 100,000 miles-everything after that is pure profit-maybe $15 per 100 miles at $5 gallon.I suspect you can get 200,000+ miles out of a Prius with average maintenance costs.Most cars need a rebuilt transmission on average at 150,000 miles or so($2500).Roughly the cost of a new battery pack-if you need one.
But like everyone says,you can get much much better with your escape,and have fun doing it.(TIRE PRESSURE-P&G-SHUT DOWN AT LIGHTS-BLOCK HEATER).Nothing expensive.

[Right Lane Cruiser]

I think Desdemona meant, "... something like a MT Ranger can get nice mileage." Check out what Wayne (xcel) has been able to do with his!

What everyone has said here so far is correct -- cold weather is going to make it very difficult for you to see results. Short trips are terrible for mileage!

My wife has an '08 escape and she had an '05 before that. I got decent mileage on the '05 but that was before hypermiling became a focus for me. I managed 27.8mpg in her '08 over the summer for a tank but that was largely longer trips. That was also before I pumped up the tires.

Speaking of tires -- get those suckers up to the max sidewall! The lower temperatures probably mean that your tire pressures are way under what you may think they are. My wife had been getting upper 17s and lower 18s out of her Escape before I pumped up the tires -- afterwards she got (with NO change in driving habits!) upper 20s and lower 21s. With a similar trip to what I had over the summer using the higher tire pressure I'm sure I could push a tank over 30mpg. That 27.8 was with both of us and a lot of luggage in the back, and she had put the first 50mi on at 16.7mpg. That's what I call a handicap.

So, get the tires pressed up, try to time any lights you may have -- loss of momentum is wasted gas. Don't idle the car for any significant length of time. If you'll be there longer than about 10s turn the vehicle off. The engine will use about 10s of idling fuel to start up (when warm). If you can pick a route with lights you can time that is much preferable to routes with stop signs. Take your longest trip first if you have multiple destinations so that your engine has half a chance to warm up. Try alternate routes -- just as the shortest route is not always the fastest, neither is it always the most efficient.

I'm assuming you have an automatic transmission -- is this correct? My wife's is AT with automatically engaging 4x4. Not great but not impossible to work with. The engine in these vehicles is pretty efficient for its displacement but if you put your foot into it that thing will drink gas at a fantastic rate. Be very gentle on the pedal. Only go as fast as you have to and take your time getting to that speed with a moderate acceleration that will feel on the slow side. Creeping up to speed will actually hurt you. Get it up to the target and hold it there with the lightest touch that will maintain speed for you.

There are other tips that can help with your driving but the above is probably way more than you could absorb in a short period of time anyway. Whatever you do, don't give up and don't get discouraged! It takes a while to build up the toolset and to learn which tools to use when.

Finally, if at all possible get yourself a ScanGauge. There is no better teacher than an instant fuel economy display. I didn't put one in my wife's Escape but it has a primitive one built into the trip computer (though it is always optimistic by exactly 0.7mpg??) so I made do with that. I know it is expensive but if you are diligent you can quickly earn back the purchase amount in saved fuel -- the time is only dependent upon how much you drive and how far. I managed to save myself over $400 in the first 6mo with it.

Good luck and keep posting questions!

[kwj]

Hey JesusFreak7,
You've been given excellent advice - perhaps the best was to remain positive. It's a process (like other important things that are simply out of this world). Have fun with the challenge, and come Spring, you'll be amazed at what you have learned. Trying tricks I learned long ago, but without hypermiling, I was able to get 21.5 MPG out of my V-6 '89 4-Runner. I wish I still had it so I could put all my new understanding into it and see what it could really do. I believe I could easily get it up to 25, perhaps more. I'm currently getting over 6 MPG more out of my daily transportation than I was getting prior to finding this web site. You could easily do as well - and have more fun driving too.

[Talking-Geico]

Originally Posted by phoebeisis

Another technique-that I don't use-is to shut the motor off at redlights,and long stop signs.....

.......If you have lots of redlights on your commute,shutting the motor off at redlights can really improve your mpg.

Ok...I don't know how you all will react to this, please don't get mad, but this is a very STUPID idea...

let me explain. PLEASE READ THROUGH !!


___It might sound great that if you shut the engine off, you get more mpg, BUT....

FIRST.......what happens when you start an engine back up ? Your car starter has to use how much...80 amps ? 90 amps ? Well, in that range. Now that is a lot of current drawn from the battery, right ? If you drive for 15 minutes, you can't put all that juice back in all at once if you make 5 miles after start, because charging current is about 2-3 amps from an alternator, not a lot, but if you keep starting the engine every red light and stop-sign, battery will draw more than 8-10 amps. Now that will make your alternator work under higher load...looks like an MPG eater right there....


SECOND.....your engine starters are designed to be as small as possible, BUT as powerful as possible, right ? Now that comes at some cost.....its life counts in HOURS. Not like a ceiling fan. Think about it. If you have to start 10 times as much...will it go out of commission quicker ? Tell yourself whatever you want, but IT WILL DIE FASTER. Now those things do round up wallet-vise.

THIRD.....your battery....that's right, your battery takes a huge toll when making a starter turn over. We are again, talking about huge amount of energy being drawn. So much energy being used all at once, the internal plates will bend, not sure how they are called in english, but if you do a research...extensive....you will know why you should not start your engine 20 times again and again in 1 trip. But if you choose to do so, looks like you need to schedule a visit to your local auto-zone. A battery will cost from say....$50 to $100 ??

FOURTH....please excuse my english ability to explain this one. When an engine is warmed up and you shut it down, oil is very liquid...much more liquid than when it is cold, therefore, it leaves all componets very fast and even after a minute, most of the oil is at the "bottom of the tray". That means when you start it up again, a lot of friction happens between the components of an engine. It may seem like it is very well oiled because it was just turned off 2 minutes ago, but trust me, it's not. So, more unnecessary starts mean less engine life expectancy...

Now, let's weigh everything we have on the table... Are you really going to ruin your car because of extra MPG...? Don't take me wrong, your car is, after all very durable and may last a long time...

Now I know this will make some people very very mad, but this is for the other half. People who will listen and think about what they do now, and will it impact them in the future...

Yes, most of you think...what is he talking about ? Saving gas and the environment is the number one priority, right ??

Well, I can only say this....if you really want to make a difference....walk

.......ooh, I work very far from work. That might pop to your mind...Well, in that case, consider carpooling with your co-workers, some highways even have designated lanes for it.


Think about it over the New Years Eve.


Always glad to hear what you think. Nothing offensive please over the public...private messages are for that.


P.S. Now this is one clean running hybrid. Only needs food and air to work.

_______________________
- Viktor

[Talking-Geico]

Automotive lead-acid rechargeable batteries have a much harder life. Because of vibration, shock, heat, cold, and sulfation of their lead plates, few automotive batteries last beyond six years of regular use. Automotive starting batteries have many thin plates to provide as much current as possible in a reasonably small package. Typically they are only drained a small amount before recharge. Care should be taken to avoid deep discharging a starting battery, since each charge and discharge cycle causes active material to be shed from the plates. Hole formation in the plates leads to less surface area for the current-producing chemical reactions, resulting in less available current when under load.

...Deep discharging a battery.......that happens when you start the car very often, ex: every stop-sign or a red-light.

[Talking-Geico]

4.2. Driving a car will fully recharge a battery.

There are a number of factors affecting a vehicle charging system's ability to recharge a battery, such as how much power from the alternator is diverted to the battery, how long the power is available, and the temperature. Generally, idling the engine or short stop-and-go trips during bad weather or at night will not fully recharge a car battery.

[Chuck]

Talking-Geico,

It's not very becomming for a newbie to pose as an expert on lead-acid batteries and starters, then spread fear, uncertainity, doubt. Many here have done pulse and glide and have avoided gutting their car and finances.

Please backtrack from "The Sky is Falling" monologue.