FEH - No Start

[xcel]

Hi Gary:

___They are a bit large at 800x600. I will resize them to 400x300 and link them back into the thread in a few.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

[xcel]

Hi Gary:

___Here you go:

Relay box.


Relay and Fuse box opened up.


Pointing at Relays.


Relay and Fuse Layout. It should be labeled inside the Fuse and Relay box cover?


Carbon Build-up.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

[hobbit]

Relays like that should last practically forever, unless
they're surrounded by a really bad design of what they
feed. Any indication of what made them fail prematurely?
Why did several of them go at once, as opposed to one with
a particularly high load on it?
.
Something doesn't add up here.
.
_H*

[GaryG]

Originally Posted by hobbit

Relays like that should last practically forever, unless
they're surrounded by a really bad design of what they
feed. Any indication of what made them fail prematurely?
Why did several of them go at once, as opposed to one with
a particularly high load on it?
.
Something doesn't add up here.
.
_H*

Ford thought I had rigged a plug-in charging system and had the Tech take pictures of everything to send them. Of course I did not, and the only modification I did was bypass the heater core. We all agreed that would not effect the relays. I suspect the power sustain relay went bad first and caused the others damage. There were so many codes found the first time it wouldn't start, but they refused to let me see the list. Ford also knew about the MPG Challenge and thought I may have reprogrammed the PCM to get over 60mpg. I had to do a set-up of the SG11 when I got it back, and the Tech said they had him check the the SG11 out also. I told the Tech that I did not use my FEH in the MPG Challenge and I did not have the equipment or knowledge to reprogrammed the PCM.

The power sustain relay could have continued to provide power to the injector relay till it went bad. The injector relay which had the carbon could have burned out from the continuous power and may have caused the engine not to start and drain the HV battery while being powered by the starter (MG1) as my wife tried to drive the vehicle. The PCM relay was the last to go the third time I had it towed. It appears the PCM relay was acting up the second time I had it towed, but it did start the vehicle when the tow service picked up the vehicle for some reason.

Yes, this is all strange and Ford stated my FEH was the only one that they've seen with this problem. If someone traced back a complaint I made about a strong smell of smoke and losing autolocks when Ford did not program autolocks in the '05 model because of problems, that may have some connection. The tech said there was no connection, who knows?

GaryG

[Mark Smith]

A lot of FAS in a humid and or dusty area might cause the relays to arch and go bad.

[brick]

Care to divulge exactly why that would be the case?

[Mark Smith]

Every time you cycle the key you cycle the relays. In a dusty and or humid environment moisture and dust can accumulate on the contacts (these relays are not sealed completely) every time they engage they arch a little bit the more contamination on the contacts the more the "carbon" (its really corrosion) builds up and soon you have no electrical connection. BTW these will start out intermittent and are very hard to figure out until they completely fail.

[Mark Smith]

There were so many codes found the first time it wouldn't start, but they refused to let me see the list.

I had to "hold the hybrid techs hand" when my PCM took a dive. There were 7 DTCs listed in the PCMs memory. I have a professional scan tool so I diagnosed mine before it died, when it was intermittent. When it was towed to them I told them all the codes I have retrieved and also told them they would not be there when they got it started. I told them based on the codes and Fords diagnostic manual the PCM was bad. They nooded they little heads and gave me a look like you dont know what you are talking about. It took them awile to get it to die and when it did their first "diagnosis" was HV THE BATTERY! I asked them if they resolved the comunication codes and they mumbled something about calling Ford. Well a week later they installed a PCM and after another day to figure out they had to have both keys to flash the PATS system I got my car back. After that they dont look at me like I'm some kinda fool. Maybe they asked their parts guy who I was.

[GaryG]

Originally Posted by Mark Smith

I had to "hold the hybrid techs hand" when my PCM took a dive. There were 7 DTCs listed in the PCMs memory. I have a professional scan tool so I diagnosed mine before it died, when it was intermittent. When it was towed to them I told them all the codes I have retrieved and also told them they would not be there when they got it started. I told them based on the codes and Fords diagnostic manual the PCM was bad. They nooded they little heads and gave me a look like you dont know what you are talking about. It took them awile to get it to die and when it did their first "diagnosis" was HV THE BATTERY! I asked them if they resolved the comunication codes and they mumbled something about calling Ford. Well a week later they installed a PCM and after another day to figure out they had to have both keys to flash the PATS system I got my car back. After that they dont look at me like I'm some kinda fool. Maybe they asked their parts guy who I was.

When my PCM had to be reflashed a year ago, the Tech was getting a bad HV battery code also. The same thing this last go around. The Hybrid Tech I see is quite nice and we both learn from each other. It was the SA who would not give me a copy of his notes of the codes found. The Tech would tell me just about anything.

With regard to the relays, it is very humid here and I live less than 100ft from the saltwater. My FEH is parked outside and I thought the same thing when I looked and saw these relays are not sealed. In addition, my commute is mainly along the beach roads where there is often allot of salt spray on my windshield and I'm constantly going from EV to run.

GaryG

[MyPart]

I like to use 3M Silicone Lubricant Plus (Wet Type) P/N: 051135-08877 to help seal up fuse boxes.

I've got a 75 MG (with Lucas Electronics) and giving a good coat of this around the edges of the fuse box cover has drastically reduced the amount of corrosion (and failure) on those old glass type fuses.

After hearing your story (and also living near the ocean), I think I'll do the same for my FEH fuse box.

Thanks to everyone for posting your issues so we can all learn and hopefully protect ourselves a little more.