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Go Back   CleanMPG Forums » Hybrid Owners Community » 2004 - 2009 Toyota Prius II Hatch


2004 - 2009 Toyota Prius II Hatch Everything and anything relating to the Second Generation Toyota Prius Hatch.

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New Prius - "Super Highway Mode" Technique (SHM).

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Old 09-04-2007, 02:17 PM
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Re: New Prius - "Super Highway Mode" Technique (SH).

Quote:
Originally Posted by xcel View Post
___Basjoos, the Prius is already pretty darn slick with a Cd of 0.26. The HP numbers needed at 50 mph with that low a Cd are miniscule so aero-modding would help only at higher speeds where SHM “may not” be as productive?
Even though the Prius starts out will a fairly good Cd, there is still a lot of room for improvement, particularly if you want to try to get 70mpg @ 70mph. For example, I've looked at my Dad's Prius II and noticed it exhausts its hot radiator air under the car just like with any other car and its underpanelling is still very rough with lots of corrugations, gaps and seams, so there is lots of air turbulence under the car. My car has a totally smooth underpanel, exhausts its radiator air through the front wheel wells and the extended low-pointed rounded nose allows mostly laminar air flow under the car with the turbulence coming off the back of each front wheel confined to a channel between the two side skirts I have on each side of the car. And there are many other areas where the Prius aero could be improved as well, even if you don't go as far as installing a boattail. I had a recent discussion at the Gassavers website of possible Prius aero improvements with a Charleston area Prius owner who showed an interest in aero modding his new Prius to improve his mileage.
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Old 09-04-2007, 02:24 PM
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Re: New Prius - "Super Highway Mode" Technique (SH).

My CanView observations today agree with Jim's...not sure I saw a value below about 18 today and typically showed mid to high 20s even at ICE rpms in the 1200 range.

Jim, if you send Norm an e-mail let him know we agree on the numbers...I wonder if we're looking at exactly the same things... the CV Ign shows BTNC (degrees)...not sure what that means.
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Old 09-04-2007, 02:59 PM
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Re: New Prius - "Super Highway Mode" Technique (SH).

Quote:
Originally Posted by efusco View Post
My CanView observations today agree with Jim's...not sure I saw a value below about 18 today and typically showed mid to high 20s even at ICE rpms in the 1200 range.

Jim, if you send Norm an e-mail let him know we agree on the numbers...I wonder if we're looking at exactly the same things... the CV Ign shows BTNC (degrees)...not sure what that means.
Isn't BTDC? As in Before Top Dead Center?

I e-mailed Norm, and here is his response:

"Hi Jim, looking through my notes I see I used the ignition advance as reported by the CAN message as the "number in steps of one-half degree with an offset of 64 to cover negative numbers". In other words it would read from -64 degrees to +64 degrees, although it would never actually reach either of those limits.

I remember at the time having discussions about whether this was true for the Prius or not and we ended up with the current calculation. It is certainly true for conventional vehicles, but there was some evidence to suggest it was different for the Atkinson cycle. I forget why it was such a drawn out argument now....

Basically my advance displayed will be exactly 14 (yes the magic 14) higher than scangauge shows. So if _temporarily_ you aim for 28 instead, see if that does what you want. If it does I can change all the displayed values in all the CAN-view versions to this new value and just ignore why the argument came up in the first place a year ago.
"
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Old 09-04-2007, 03:25 PM
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Re: New Prius - "Super Highway Mode" Technique (SH).

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimboK View Post
Basically my advance displayed will be exactly 14 (yes the magic 14) higher than scangauge shows. So if _temporarily_ you aim for 28 instead, see if that does what you want. If it does I can change all the displayed values in all the CAN-view versions to this new value and just ignore why the argument came up in the first place a year ago.[/i]"
Well that sorta make sense now with our observations...
I think I'm gonna propose to Norm...he's such a good guy.
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Old 09-04-2007, 03:47 PM
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Re: New Prius - "Super Highway Mode" Technique (SH).

Quote:
Originally Posted by efusco View Post
Well that sorta make sense now with our observations...
I think I'm gonna propose to Norm...he's such a good guy.
Kinda... I think CV is reporting the number of half degrees, and SGII is reporting the number of whole degrees. You want 12.5Ί - 14.5Ί or 25hd - 29hd (where hd is half-degrees). The closer to 14Ί (28hd) the better.

So divide by two instead of subtracting 14...

I think...

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Old 09-04-2007, 03:51 PM
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Re: New Prius - "Super Highway Mode" Technique (SH).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan View Post
Kinda... I think CV is reporting the number of half degrees, and SGII is reporting the number of whole degrees. You want 12.5Ί - 14.5Ί or 25hd - 29hd (where hd is half-degrees). The closer to 14Ί (28hd) the better.

So divide by two instead of subtracting 14...

I think...

11011011
Makes sense for the value of 28, but not for the ICE-off value of 19.
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Old 09-05-2007, 01:43 AM
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Re: New Prius - "Super Highway Mode" Technique (SH).

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimboK View Post
Makes sense for the value of 28, but not for the ICE-off value of 19.
I verified with SGII. I sent 010E using the CMDS. This is supposed to get IGN. To get Ί past DTC the math is to take the return value, divide by 2, then subtract 64 from the result. So when I sent down 0104, I got back 410E8A. The return value of 0x8A is 138. 138/2 - 64 = 5. Sounds like Norm divided by two and subtracted 50. 138/2 - 50 = 19.

Either way it works out the same for you. Off by 14.

Here's a reference on the math but I think I got it right.

11011011
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Old 09-05-2007, 06:04 AM
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Re: New Prius - "Super Highway Mode" Technique (SH).

Ahh, divide then subtract. Thanks, Dan! I don't know if Norm is following this thread -- I sent him the link -- but I'll e-mail him with your findings and Evan's CV results.
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Old 09-05-2007, 07:31 AM
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Re: New Prius - "Super Highway Mode" Technique (SH).

I looked into the RPMs on my SGII when in the SHM state and here is what I saw. Keep in mind, this is rough as it's only been two trips on the highway for about 6mi each way [with the sun in my eyes]

IGN - RPM
18 - 1600+
17 - 1500+
16 - 1400+
15 - 1300+
14 - 1200+
13 - 1100+

It seems to indicate RPM = ((IGN - 2) * 1000)

These numbers seem fairly consistent when maintaining normal driving conditions. Hills will change the RPM a bit, but for the most part this was fairly accurate on my trip. Not sure what others have found though.

Also, I will say that the IGN of 14 and 15 seem to give about MPH * 1.25-1.5 as was suggested originally. I have to say I haven't see 75-90mpg on the highway too often, but I rode in that state for about 3mi today while within 5mph of the speed limit.

I also used the IGN as a guide for acceleration now, instead of RPM. This seems to provide the most accurate means of finding the ideal acceleration point for P&G sessions. I try to keep it inbetween 16 and 18, but to get up to speed quicker 18 is the best bet.

I will do some more research in the next few days. I'm slated to meet with JimboK tonight, so I'll be on the highway a bit longer than a I normally am, and thus can pay more attention to the numbers.

Last edited by tekn0wledg : 09-05-2007 at 07:35 AM. Reason: added calculation for converting RPM to IGN
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Old 09-05-2007, 08:38 AM
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Re: New Prius - "Super Highway Mode" Technique (SH).

May be mentioned earlier in the thread, but there are some interesting initial IGN numbers during S1....I showed a reading of 3 to 4 (CanView)....so -10 to -11 if sgII? It immediately jumped to the normal range as soon as S2 started and never fell below 19 (5 on sgII) again.

I think I need to read up on what these numbers actually mean mechanically...
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