A few quick notes on the Prius-II from a non-Prius-II owner …

[xcel]

Hi All:

___I may have sold the Prius-II a little short where her highway numbers are concerned. She just allowed an 80.6 mpg segment per the SG-II coming home this morning with an 80% highway drive. She went from 79.1 to 79.5 per the MFD starting at 812 miles out. Seeing 7-bars per the SoC mimic many not be possible in all but the most remote traffic scenarios but there is a higher SoC level with 6-bars showing that you can reach and it allows the same 70 - 90 mpg type FE at somewhat slower but steady state speeds (46 - 53 mph). When you reach this high 6-bar SoC, you will begin to see the MGSet mimic pop back and forth between assisting and dormant very quickly (up to once every second or two) while in a somewhat DWL steady state cruise. When you see that, you know you are in this “Highway high SoC mode”. You ease back on the pedal and hold decent highway FE for some distance before you have to find that SoC all over again. To hold onto this SoC, do not use WS other then when it is all but mandatory to do so (long downhill’s or coming into a slowdown etc.). I just hold the high 120 - 140 mpg range per the SG-II when coming down a long slope so as to hold onto that special SoC level.

___Also, now that I am on nights, I am going in with some sun light at dusk and coming back with sunlight in the morning. No headlights certainly helps and the traffic patterns are far more Prius friendly. I had one 5 miles stop and crawl (strange for a Saturday morning in Chicago but it is the Holiday weekend ) and she popped up with 4 of 6 5-minute bars pegged.

___Why do these kinds of numbers arrive when I have to give up the car in a few days

___Her low fuel - last pip blink occurred at 874.7 miles so she will run dry by 950 at the latest

___Jim, can you try and find that same high 6 bar level with your CAN-View and let us all know what the hell is going on? I drove in that mode for maybe 25 – 30 miles of 75 and it works but it can disappear just as fast if you decide to use any kind of high end assist for even 5 or so seconds. Gentle as a baby and she showed me some of the good stuff his morning

___Dan, I have P&G’ed a Prius from way back but I have to learn her all over again every time Using N is new to me so I wanted to make sure everyone knew of a way to forgoe Regen before going to EV or a Pulse after a glide is all. Another … Running a P&G regiment at a high 5 or 6 bars is absolutely nirvana with hard pulses still holding 25 + mpg for the very short period before hitting the glide. Pulled into the lot last night at 5 bars and into the drive with 6 bars this afternoon for a change too. After the Prius Marathon, I remember her last segment started at 3 bars and ended at 5 with the great 90 mile and especially the last 30 mile RT. We had no instrumentation other then the mimic and a SuperMid but I am sure some of this stuff can be sorted out with Jim’s CAN-View?

PS: I top off every time but am very gentle about it. Given Tim’s warnings earlier, I made sure to run through a gallon immediately after doing so on this tank and will do so again this evening on the way to work after she runs dry and I give her the gallon from the can fillup before hitting a another station wherever that may be?

___Good Luck

___Wayne

[JimboK]

Originally Posted by xcel

Jim, can you try and find that same high 6 bar level with your CAN-View and let us all know what the hell is going on? I drove in that mode for maybe 25 – 30 miles of 75 and it works but it can disappear just as fast if you decide to use any kind of high end assist for even 5 or so seconds. Gentle as a baby and she showed me some of the good stuff his morning

Hmm, I'll see what I can do tomorrow on our return trip.

What's your sense about how what you've been doing will translate to hilly terrain, which is what most of the drive entails? The good thing is that none of it is interstate, so I can run those lower speeds you mention. As long as m'lady tolerates it, that is.

I assume you're not running climate control. I know she won't tolerate either AC-off or windows open (blows her hair ). I suspect that will make a big difference. Agreed?

EDIT: The wheels (in my head, not on the ground) are turning. It seems as though you're saying, "Stay out of the pack on the highway." Is that about it?

In our local travels yesterday and today I've started watching 3 new CV parameters simultaneously: battery power, ICE power, and combined (pack + ICE) power, all indicating power to the wheels expressed in kW. About all I've done so far is start to learn the relationship of the 3 to each other, and that of ICE power to RPM. I'm thinking these might help me here. If I'm reading you right, I should try to:

• Keep battery at a negative value (i.e., charging) when possible.
• If not, keep it at as low a positive value as possible.
• Keep RPM at the low end of what we know the ICE efficiency range to be, but also keep ICE power from dropping too low (DWL??). It looks like 10 ICE kw sustains steady speed at 1600 RPM on the flat at 50-60 MPH.

[xcel]

Hi Jim:

___I don’t know how the much more hilly terrain will affect this? I know when you have to accel or climb the minor undulations here in IL. even in this “max highway mode”; she will drop into the 50’s and 60’s while very slowly bleeding or maintaining speed. On the back side, 99.9 on the MFD and 130 - 150 per the SG-II while not entering WS. There appears to be two modes to 6 bars of SoC for the highway driver. When you are on the bottom of 6 bars, this max highway mode is gone. When on the top of 6-bars, it is there to be exploited and can be held for a very long time. When you see the quick flashing yellow arrows from the pack and MGSet mimic, back off just a touch and reapply when it disappears. I mean just a touch so that you are not using the pack. That mimic will be bouncing back and forth like a pinball machine at some points so just back off when you see it and keep that pack’s SoC in this high 6 bar range.

___There appears to be some severe speed limitations in this mode. She will only hold 75 + up to ~ 53 mph so this will not work for those running on 70 mph Interstates. Even on our 65 mph limited ones, the truck speeds are 55 and I can hold 53 without too much issue with the occasional blast up to 65 for long flats or down hills to clear out the proctologists.

___I am now thinking WS should only be used when you will be dropping below 41 to transition into a std. Glide, otherwise save the pack for the super highway mode. It seems to be working well but I do not have the time to tweak it. Since you and Tim are the Prius-II highway specialist amongst the CleanMPG membership, I hope you two can find and use it to your advantage in the near future … Or until the colder temps reach VA. and SC. only to kill both your own great tanks in the very near future? Just get her up to highway speed for a few miles and look for the tell-tale Yellow arrows from the MGSet and Pack as they appear and disappear rapidly. Once you see it, you know the pack is at the proper SoC for this max highway mode to be worked with?

___After filling the gas can w/ 1.507 gallons, filling up from the can after fuel starve and adding an additional 11.172 gallons at the station over 952.9 miles, I was getting behind schedule for my work commute and drove it up to 45 – 65 for 50 miles. 73.x into the lot after 50 miles. This mornings drive home yielded 81.8 mpg per the SG-II (SG-II’s FE was dead on this time around with no offsets in Fuel or distance installed?) with the MFD sitting at 78.5. Day time driving really is a lot different then night time highway as you cannot hold the max highway mode for nearly as long at night.

___Prius-I and II’s into the stop and crawls. For the type moving between 10 and 40, std. P&G with varying speed ranges but the same pulse rates. Hopefully you will be at 6-bars as you enter one given you are on the highway but do not waste it! Open up the buffer, minimize use of EV, and anytime you get down in the 15 – 20 mph range with the buffer you created ahead, punch the accel pedal just enough to get that ICE up and running and take her up to a speed that will allow a glide into the back of the traffic ahead but at the bottom end of a speed range in your lane. In the real slow stop and crawl stuff. Those that simply crawl along at 2 – 10 mph, you have 6 bars to play with and unfortunately, you will have to burn some of it. Still, open up a buffer but crawl with everybody else and pray the traffic opens up before you get to 3 bars. It takes some gumption to open up a buffer in the far right lane in a dense stop and crawl of either type but just take the BS from the ticked off drivers because they are not going anywhere and the FE will be in the low 100’s along with it. The 2 – 10 mph stuff doesn’t really need a buffer as long as there are no openings that you can see around a long curve or corner ahead but the moving stop and crawls will need that buffer to work in or you are screwed.

___Just like the Prius-I, do not succumb to the siren song of EV’ing on the pack unless there is a darn good reason to do so! It is there to absorb and give a little but do not ride it like most of the untrained do! It is a FE killer! Until you convert to a PHEV that is

___Good Luck

___Wayne

[Dan]

Holy smokes, I saw some of that 6 bar sweet spot.

Dial in IGN as one of your gauges and watch what happens when hold IGN of 14. Here's the decoder:

• IGN: 5 = Fuel Cut or ICE-off
• IGN: 10 = Idle
• IGN: 13 = Very hard to hold, happens at about 1100 rpm on the HW
• IGN: 14 = SWEET SPOT MPG = 1.5 x MPH and on a flat you can hold it for miles unlike WS. I get slightly better numbers with WS P&G, but man this is the closest I've seen! Something else interesting is that IGN 14 is also what my city driving Pulses seem to hit consistently when at 6 bars. It's a whole lot easier to hold an IGN number than an RPM number, and the RPMS seem to self regulate to the IGN number.
• IGN: 15 = Close second to IGN 14, and allows for longer distances.
• IGN: 16 = Hardly ever saw it at 6 bars, seemed to always be on the way to 17 or 15
• IGN: 17 = FE falls off here, and I recommend avoiding 16 and 17. Possible loafing
• IGN: 18 = WS Pulse rate. This is a perfect pulse rate if your gonna WS P&G. Pulse at IGN 18, Glide at IGN 5.
• IGN: 19+ = Very fuel thirsty, I recommend avoiding these unless your in a "gotta floor it" moment.

Wayne, does this line up with the HW numbers you were seeing?

For my 60+ mile highway trip, I saw 67.0 MPG. This is WAY above what I usually hit. I did half WS P&G (IGN 18 & IGN 5) and half Sweet Spot P&G (IGN 18 & IGN 14). They were real close. In the limited time I had in an Insight, IGN 14 felt a lot like lean burn in the insight. Not nearly as thrifty as LB, but the same feel to it.

11011011

[xcel]

Hi Dan:

___So there is a gauge we can use to see the max highway mode! I will swap out Load for IGN and look for the tell tale signs tonight on the way to work. It does indeed feel very much like lean-burn in the HCH-I (great analogy!) although it is a bit trickier to hold is all. One of the other items I see in this mode is the tach between 1,180 and 1,280 w/ an occasional up-tick to 1344 Rev’s which seems ungodly low for 47 - 53 mph?

___Good Luck

___Wayne

[diamondlarry]

Wayne, your discovery of "super highway mode" explains a few things I've noticed but couldn't quite explain. I would get stretches where I would see 70-75 mpg then, all of a sudden, the same conditions would only be good for high 50's to low 60's. Since I've only made less than a half dozen highway trips, it would have taken me forever to have figured this out. I had the ~48-53 mph thing figured out as a sweet-spot for speed but couldn't figure out the rest of it. On behalf of many PriusII drivers I say: THANK YOU! Now, about that highway clinic time after I finish out this 1,100+ mile tank...

Dan, I think I'll be I'll be using the IGN feature of the SG2 for my next highway trip which will most likely be in October for the trip to Oak Creek. Thanks for the tip!

[locutus]

Dan - nice find! I don't drive highway that much but when I do, now I have something else to watch.

[Dan]

Originally Posted by diamondlarry

Wayne, your discovery of "super highway mode" explains a few things I've noticed but couldn't quite explain.

And the new Super Highway Mode (SHM) technique was born . Wayne and I are certainly believers. There may be some refinement, but this may be the elusive 70 MPG highway technique that Prius pilots have been looking for.

Try it out and let us know if you can confirm a high MPG highway segment with it.

11011011

[hobbit]

Can you watch RPM at the same time you're doing this, and
see if there's a correspondence? This is just ignition
timing you're talking about, correct?
.
_H*

[lightfoot]

Originally Posted by HCHCIN

I have to agree with Tarabell -- the HCHII is dead simple compared to this Prius stuff:

1) Watch the iFCD.
2) Invoke EV-Glide as much as appropriate.
3) Minimize assist.

Seriously, it's the Hypermiling for Dummies machine. --RN

This is a fabulous thread (makes me want to get my hands on a Prius), but I can't help thinking that pretty soon a copilot will be needed!