A few quick notes on the Prius-II from a non-Prius-II owner …

[madman]

I know all about ws at 8 bars........sometimes I have to go through the back side of town which at the end gives me about a 1 mile very steep downgrade that lets me get to a full 8 bars. Then when I hit the flats I use stealth up to ws speed and I go almost 3 miles in ws at about 50 to 55mph up to a bridge that I can get all the way over without the ice and regen down the other side to the stop sign back up to 6 bars. The only downside is that after 6 to 7 minutes of no ice running I end up out of s4 and I have to use my ev control to kill the ice between there and the next stop when it will go back into s4.

[locutus]

You definitely get a boost at 7 and especially 8 bars as the pack is favored much more than usual, at any speed. (After coming to a stop after a long downgrade, getting to 8 bars, and turning onto another highway, I was getting 40+ instantaneous for the whole acceleration, and 80 for a while once I was up to speed.) However, unless you do have a big downgrade, seeing 7+ bars frequently just means you're using the brakes too much. As brick said, the cost is high to get them.

[JimboK]

Hi, Wayne. I never got to (and rarely do during WS) the Can-View equivalent of "no arrows," which is current draws of about 5A or less. As others have suggested here, SoC is critical. On this test, I hit the highway within about five minutes of leaving work and after my non-block-heater-enhanced warmup. That first five minutes typically pulls the battery down to 50% or below. It really needs to be at about 58% before I can sustain WS at highway speeds, so I drove for 2-3 miles on the highway to push it up to 60 (to allow for some discharge) before I began the test. Of course, as it occurred to me after the fact, I could have force charged it before hitting the highway. "Delayed intelligence" strikes again.

[hobbit]

That little "fake upshift" feeling as SoC climbs past 4 bars
is a fairly abrupt change from about 40 amps of charge current
to about 10 amps. It's one of the very few abrupt changes the
Prius system ever does, and you're right, it feels almost
exactly like an AT gear-change in your butt.
.
For a visual representation of what you can get out of the
pack in WS at various SoCs, see the chart in my writeup on
it. The battery current figures on it are based on my real
life observations, but I didn't have a good way to represent
quantity on accelerator position. It matches everything y'all
have said in this thread, though.
.
About LOD -- we have observed that different years of Prius II
report calculated load differently in that fairly generous range
of high-torque operation. My '04 sits resolutely at about 50%
under the same pulse conditions as, say, Dan's car would report
as that 75% or so. It's simply what the ECU hands back, it's
not the SG's fault, and you can't trust it to be consistent from
car to car. You can, however, use it as a relative figure to
determine if you're under high torque load or not -- just
remember what it's supposed to be for your own car. An RPM
readout is more useful in the Prius because between the limits
we keep talking about, LOD stays just about the same. And
remember that my "LOD" indicator is my vacuum gauge, which
doesn't allow the computers to lie to me. We did a similar
LOD determination in GrendelKhan's Altima this past weekend,
where it weighed in around 66% for what felt like a nominal
pulse to us.
.
_H*

[tarabell]

I completely missed the memo on this. Wayne how did you get ahold of this Prius-II, whose is it, is it for review...fun...setting new record...?

[xcel]

Hi All:

___Well she is teaching me her highway secrets but it is like pulling teeth 77.6 when I arrived at work this afternoon at the 189 mile mark. 79.2 as she sits in the drive at 291 miles for a solid 82.25 mpg.

___About that seat/right leg ergonomics. Just stretch out until your right foot is riding high on the pedal and your thigh rests on the seat bottom. That problem is sort of fixed for me. The only problem is you are a long way from the brake pedal in that condition …

___About getting that 7th bar of SoC. I found it twice but only under a specific traffic and terrain condition. I pulled into a D-Regen and held it until the 7th bar appeared. From that point, I was holding a 75 + mpg average at 45 – 55 mph until she dropped back down to 6 again … She sure does run nice at 7 bars

___Dan, I know what you mean about 4 to 5 bars. She will pull from the high 40’s back to the 60’s in nothing flat once the 5th bar appears. The neat thing I really like about the Prius vs. the Honda IMA’s is how fast SoC recovers. I am playing down in the 3 to 4 bar range during my heavy P&G segments. Once I hit the highway, it is not but 1.5 to 2 miles and she is right back up to 6 bars. I am WS the bejesus out of here to pull the high numbers seen tonight/this morning.

___Sean, it is not all that bad but I have expectations and they can be frustratingly hard to meet in her is all. Anything under 40 mph and she owns everybody other then maybe 10 citizens of planet earth in an Insight but after 40, boy do you have to push all the right buttons at just the right time to make her play your tune instead of her own

___Tim, SOB and how! I watch the tach but I am so far below what most have mentioned in the past??? Construction is hot and heavy in the Chicago area at night so that helps keep speeds down which is probably the real key to her success this morning. As I was playing around at 60 + mph, she sure doesn’t like to hold 60 + mpg up there. Just the nature of the beast I guess? If you had the lower limits I do, you would probably be in heaven!

___About that tach … I am still seeing my best results down in the 1280 to 1,400 range w/ a WS about every 2 miles added for good measure just like the Prius-I? For my highway alternate’s, I am usually WS’ing down anywhere from 52 – 57 mph, transition at 41 to a std. Glide and holding it until it is time to enter the Interstate again. From 6 bars about 85% of the time, I have some EV to bring her up to around 30 before lighting off the ICE. From there, pour on the coals (no yellow arrows ever from the MGSet to the wheels) to do it all over again. Load is always and I mean always in the 70 – 85% region other then when under WS (~ 50% which means nothing) and when under regen. I just don’t have any play with this ICE for maximizing.

___Jim, I am very interested is seeing that 6-bar WS and feather that pedal to see what changes from the slightest of regen to no arrows back to WS at 55 + mph. Although the mimic is junk, there sure must be some gyrations I do not understand.

___Al, do you see an increase in RPM’s just as you transition form WS to std. Glide? I see it almost every time. A steady state 980 RPM’s under WS and a quick bump up to 1150 or so before she drops back to 0 in a std. Glide? Why would Toyota have done that?

___About Dead Stick Glides. I am still not sure I fully understand the physics because she should not allow 70 + mpg two miles out w/ an initial and final SoC being equal and coolant above 163 using the technique. To see her SoC at 2 (purple) bars after just 2 DSG’s yet the FE numbers are usually in the 90 - 110 range show me a std. SoC for FE tradeoff. Usually the 3rd DSG, she starts forced charging properly and is right back up to 4 bars after a long and steady pulse on number 4 or 5. I am completely fat, dumb and happy with 70 + mpg’s from dead cold - 70 degrees F ambient but why does this work? Upon that 4th or 5th DSG, I am ready to perform the S4 idle check at 163 degrees F +. If I just drive her and eat the warm-up hit, she is lucky to see 45 – 55 mpg’s after 2 miles? This only works from work as I have a special route w/ specific alternates that can leave me completely unmolested for over 2 miles in order to pull off this technique?

___This one is for the group? Because she is booted up, is there any chance of HSD damage during the DSG - technique? It is a dead Prius as far as being able to shift into D at speed but you are in N, booted and gliding smoothly. A slight drag but only ever so slight.

___Finally, she gave me some of her mojo back tonight. I was chasing FE Saturday night/Sunday morning instead of letting it come to me as I did Monday night/Tuesday morning. Off the highway, she allows 100 almost at will. Snapped a pic of all 6 – 5 minute bars pegged tonight at 70 degrees but she does not like 60 degree temps at all!!! On the highway, she can hold above 75 when pulling out all the stops. I do not think the highway numbers would be feasible for most however? During the day in and around Chicago, the Interstates are jammed and the Prius will eat anything alive in that kind of stop and craw pulling 80’s and 90’s without breathing hard. Late at night however, there is little of anything to play in so it all up to her. With nobody on the road, I can pull some of that 50 mph long glide to 35 mph stuff as I exit the Interstate. You cannot do that during the day unless you want your car riddled with bullet holes.

___About various times of day. I am almost positive the day shift traffic patterns through Chicago allowed the Prius-I to do so well last month. The Prius-II caught me on my afternoons and night week(s) and she will not have the opportunity to see the good stuff like the Prius-I did. I did compensate for the traffic-less situation however. I found an off-highway alternate when coming home for the last 12 or so miles. At 01:30 AM, the local 45 mph limited roadways full of road-ragers at 50 + during the day are all but empty so I can pull an 18 – 32 mph P&G nirvana cycle at will to make up for the 70 + mpg highway. All in, about 28 miles of desolate roads for the big numbers and 65 miles of 55 and 65 mph Interstates to barely hold my own. This is the only way I know how to keep her close to the 80 + number. I feel for Prius highway drivers as that is one heck of an amount of work but the city guys with any kind of distance, good god what a weapon!

___Tarabell, just a 2006 Prius-II review vehicle from Cheryl. Breaking records is not in the cards but becoming acquainted with an old friend is very enjoyable to say the least! Toyota corporate has finally come through with any number of Toyota’s once the 08’s arrive in force. I told the rep I can only test stick’ed Yaris’, Corolla’s and Camry’s other then the Prius and TCH of course and only until about the beginning of November before the temps start dropping like a rock. What good would a Corolla w/ Auto’s numbers be in 25 - 51 degree temps? About 49.26 over 613.7 miles actually vs. the 60 + she is good for in the summer

___Good Luck

___Wayne

[xcel]

Hi All:

___I have to run but here is what I was seeing during the 7-bar SoC that I caught on the fly.




Calibration tank.


She can still do this but it is not as easy as I remembered

___Good Luck

___Wayne

[Dan]

Originally Posted by xcel

___This one is for the group? Because she is booted up, is there any chance of HSD damage during the DSG - technique? It is a dead Prius as far as being able to shift into D at speed but you are in N, booted and gliding smoothly. A slight drag but only ever so slight.

OK... how do you DSG a Prius II? Does it have a power button (SKS equipted)? I always thought that the parking claw would come down if you hit power, and if not, that the ECU would simply refuse the request.

Originally Posted by xcel

___Finally, she gave me some of her mojo back tonight. I was chasing FE Saturday night/Sunday morning instead of letting it come to me as I did Monday night/Tuesday morning. Off the highway, she allows 100 almost at will. Snapped a pic of all 6 – 5 minute bars pegged tonight at 70 degrees but she does not like 60 degree temps at all!!!

I think Jared is running grill blocks all year round. Guess it really depends on how long your on the highway. But if you have a quick stop sign on the route at night, you may be able to install/remove the blocks quickly.

11011011

[locutus]

Originally Posted by Dan

I think Jared is running grill blocks all year round. Guess it really depends on how long your on the highway. But if you have a quick stop sign on the route at night, you may be able to install/remove the blocks quickly.

Yes, even on the highway, granted we haven't had much in the way of 90-degree+ days up here. The coolant temperature as reported by the SG-II hasn't ever climbed past 193, usually the peak is 186 or 188.

[mparrish]

Originally Posted by Dan

OK... how do you DSG a Prius II? Does it have a power button (SKS equipted)? I always thought that the parking claw would come down if you hit power, and if not, that the ECU would simply refuse the request.
11011011

Also, does an EV button/switch make the DSG unnecessary? I would assume so. Unless there's a way to somehow DSG your way out of Stage 1 and into Stage 2.

Since we are on Prius topics, I've got another one. I've never been able to reconcile the following.

http://www.techno-fandom.org/~hobbit...ive-stages.txt

Hobbit says:

"When the system temperature reaches 40 degrees C. (104 F.) the computer goes to Stage 2 operation."

My EBH clearly indicates starting temperatures above 104F (120s to be exact), yet I always have to muddle through 20-30 seconds of slow go, downhill, iMPG of 10-20mpg, system-wants-badly-to-assist Stage 1.

Is Stage 1 something that must be experienced no matter what the coolant temperature? That would seem to be the case. I've got my stage 1 burn down to a science, but still would rather just do without it entirely.