ScanGauge and the FEH

[CarlD]

The only ONE that I found was fuel rail temp of 0x2B wich is certainly not 3C, but just as certainly it is not 43F, either. In my local copy, I had already removed the offset. I will try to upload my latest version, which is already several revs beyond what I posted.

[GaryG]

Originally Posted by CarlD

The only ONE that I found was fuel rail temp of 0x2B wich is certainly not 3C, but just as certainly it is not 43F, either. In my local copy, I had already removed the offset. I will try to upload my latest version, which is already several revs beyond what I posted.

Thanks Carl for the update and posting this info on CMPG!

GaryG

[CarlD]

Having had the latest SG firmware for a week and a half, I have noticed a few things that have made me change my driving habits. Some interesting discoveries:

The ICE will not charge the HV battery above 53%. Once you get to 53%, only regen can get it higher. It is possible, but very difficult, to get the SoC to 60%. You can nudge it a tiny bit higher with repeated brief L FS. On the Nav display, 60% SoC is where the green touches the bottom of the + sign of the battery. At 39.9% SoC, the green disappears. Above 53% SoC, you get electric assist to the wheels, even at freeway speeds.

Battery temps above 95F will cause the A/C to run most of the time. There are some cases where even with battery temp below 95F, the FEH will not shut the ICE off even with high SoC. I have found an FAS will re-allow EV after a minute or so.

Overnight the SoC will drop by 1% or more. If you park at night with 40% SoC, in the morning the SoC will be around 38.8%. Driving away using the electric motors with the ICE idling can get the SoC down as low as 32.2% before the ICE will start driving the wheels and charging the battery. FE when this happens is very bad. ICE will shut off around 42% SoC. This is also the point where the charging load starts to drop if you force the ICE to stay on.

There are still some PIDs that can't seem to be displayed with the new software. Hopefully these last bugs will be worked out real soon.

[GaryG]

Originally Posted by CarlD

Having had the latest SG firmware for a week and a half, I have noticed a few things that have made me change my driving habits. Some interesting discoveries:

The ICE will not charge the HV battery above 53%. Once you get to 53%, only regen can get it higher. It is possible, but very dificult, to get the SoC to 60%. You can nudge it a tiny bit higher with repeated brief L FS. On the Nav display, 60% SoC is where the green touches the bottom of the + sign of the battery. At 39.9% SoC, the green dissapears. Above 53% SoC, you get electric assist to the wheels, even at freeway speeds.

Battery temps above 95F will cause the A/C to run most of the time. There are some cases where even with battery temp below 95F, the FEH will not shut the ICE off even with high SoC. I have found an FAS will re-allow EV after a minute or so.

Overnight the SoC will drop by 1% or more. If you park at night with 40% SoC, in the morning the SoC will be around 38.8%. Driving away using the electric motors with the ICE idling can get the SoC down as low as 32.2% before the ICE will start driving the wheels and charging the battery. FE when this happens is very bad.

There are still some PIDs that can't seem to be displayed with the new software. Hopefully these last bugs will be worked out real soon.

Very good info Carl! You confirm what I've read and how I operate my FEH based on battery SOC. Try shifting to neutral and tapping the brake pedal to go EV instead of FAS to go EV. It works for me like a charm even if the battery is hot or cold.

GaryG

[GPS_MAN1]

I can confirm most of what Carl has posted.
I don't yet have his version of the SG but have seen all the same with other means.
Regarding battery Temperature:

Above 38'C (100'F) is when A/C cooling becomes mandatory, and EV is essentially disabled.
When this occurs, the car will not allow EV at 37'C when cooling, but will at 35'C (95'F).
So you can have EV at 96, 97, 98, or 99 degrees on the way up in temperature, but not on the way down.

Also, water temperature must be 140'F to enable EV, but the car will stay in EV down to 125'F.
So you can have EV at 126'F on the way down, but not on the way up!

All reports look like the 2005-2007 behave the same.
Early testing indicates that 2008's require 160'F water temperature to enable EV.
This sounds like a step backwards, but Ford must have a good reason.
The 2008 does get better MPG after all!

More info:

Oh... the cars will always allow EV when battery is below 95'F ( or 35'C ).
What you probably noticed Carl is: When the A/C turns on, there is a minimum time required for each A/C on cycle.
I have not timed it, but let's just say, 30 seconds for argument sake, like the 30 seconds minimum of engine run time required after
each key restart. So, if your battery is at 95 degrees, and the A/C just kicked on 1 second before you wanted EV, the engine must run for
that minimum of 30 seconds ( or 29 seconds more ) and then you will be able to have EV. But 30 seconds later, your driving conditions may
no longer be right for EV, so it appears EV is being blocked at 95'F, when there is no such limitation, just the 30 seconds ( or whatever ) of
minimum A/C run time each time the A/C clutch engages. -John

[CarlD]

Well, with our continuing 108 degree weather I can confirm that my FEH won't shut off the ICE with the double-tap in nuetral when the battery is hot. I am still getting a mode where it won't shut the ICE off even below 95F battery air temp. This isn't a case of missing the A/C cycling time by a few seconds. I have been stuck in this mode for ten minutes or more, not wanting to FAS because I'm hoping the ICE will shut off on its own at any time. It may be that the battery air temp PID isn't accurately reflecting the actual battery temp that the FEH is using, but that's just a guess. Also, my battery air temp has not dropped below 89.6F, even when starting out in the morning. It is usually around 116F when leaving work in the evening.

I had high hopes for this tank but am already down to 36.5 mpg 160 miles into it.

[GaryG]

Originally Posted by CarlD

Well, with our continuing 108 degree weather I can confirm that my FEH won't shut off the ICE with the double-tap in nuetral when the battery is hot. I am still getting a mode where it won't shut the ICE off even below 95F battery air temp. This isn't a case of missing the A/C cycling time by a few seconds. I have been stuck in this mode for ten minutes or more, not wanting to FAS because I'm hoping the ICE will shut off on its own at any time. It may be that the battery air temp PID isn't accurately reflecting the actual battery temp that the FEH is using, but that's just a guess. Also, my battery air temp has not dropped below 89.6F, even when starting out in the morning. It is usually around 116F when leaving work in the evening.

I had high hopes for this tank but am already down to 36.5 mpg 160 miles into it.

Carl, do you have the Sanyo or Panasonic HV battery? I heard the '08 FEH changed to the Panasonic and that may be your problem. The '05 workshop manual states the ideal temperature of the HVTB is 82F with a desired range between 77F to 100F. Even in 96F temperatures here in South Florida, I never have a problem shutting down the ICE for EV. If I heat the battery more with "L" regen, I still can shift to active neutral (above 6mph) and go EV by tapping the brakes. Passive neutral below 6mph will not allow a change in EV or ICE running mode. I think that design was to allow the techs to charge or test things like the A/C and not have the ICE shutting down all the time.

If changes to the HV battery design have been made in the '08, this needs to be brought to the attention of our readers.

GaryG

[CarlD]

I have been able to double tap the ICE off in N above 6mph on occasion when the battery temp is 95F or less, but never for 100F or higher. I have also coasted to a stop in N with the ICE off, only to have it turn on because the SOC dropped below 40%. Supposedly this shouldn't happen, but it does, and charging occurs, even though stopped in N. My FEH acts like the "rules" of operation are more like "guidelines."

When you get your SC firmware upgrade, maybe you can see if you can double tap the ICE off with battery temps >95F. Also, I would be interested to see how fast the battery temp drops in your FEH when the A/C is on.

Also, this morning I started with a 42% SOC, and after .2 miles of electric drive with ICE idling, the SOC had dropped all the way to 33.8%!

[GaryG]

Originally Posted by CarlD

I have been able to double tap the ICE off in N above 6mph on occasion when the battery temp is 95F or less, but never for 100F or higher. I have also coasted to a stop in N with the ICE off, only to have it turn on because the SOC dropped below 40%. Suposedly this shouldn't happen, but it does, and charging occurs, even though stopped in N. My FEH acts like the "rules" of operation are more like "guidelines."

When you get your SC firmware upgrade, maybe you can see if you can double tap the ICE off with battery temps >95F. Also, I would be interested to see how fast the battery temp drops in your FEH when the A/C is on.

Also, this morning I started with a 42% SOC, and after .2 miles of electric drive with ICE idling, the SOC had dropped all the way to 33.8%!

Your conditions are far more heated than mine. It may be that after starting the ICE after my FEH has been sitting in the hot sun in the mid 90's is much different than in your case in the 100's. I've never had a hot condition enough to prevent EV with tapping the brakes in neutral. Most of the time, shifting to "L" to go EV will do it if the battery has the minimum charge required.

I've been very much aware of the strategy for heating the CAT at an idle can brings the battery SoC below 40%. This happens almost every time I start out after sitting for 5-10 minutes because my battery is always low. This is when I make good use of the FS in "L" and often heat the battery as much as possible during my summer days. As soon as I see a FS in "L" will not allow EV, tapping the brake pedal in neutral works 100% of the time for me.

Also, I've never had a restart at a stop in neutral, so Ford may have changed the strategy. If I know I'm going to be sitting for a while, I turn the key off and not drain the battery to a very low SoC now. It aways restarts when I shift out of neutral with a low SoC any way.

As soon as Ron says the the new SC11 with the new firmware is ready to ship, I'll place a new order and send my old one back for reprogramming after I get the replacement. I'd be lost without a SG now.

GaryG

[CarlD]

I posted a picture of xgauge coding for the FEH. I have heard that most battery xgauges don't work on 2008, and one report that SoC doesn't work for 2007. I have at various times had most of the PIDs successfully coded into my SG with software 3.14. If there is any PID that you can't get to work, let me know.

PS - FEH owners are fortunate vis-a-vis Toyota with regards to PIDs (and hence xgauges.) Toyota apparently decided not to follow the SAE J2190 standard for formatting their PIDs.
Out of over 200 PIDs on my FEH I can put all but 3 into xgauges.