1998-2002 V6 Accord had problems/ News Here to Me:

[tigerhonaker]

TORONTO STAR
Sat. Apr. 8, 2006

1998-2002 V6 Accord had problems
Honda strayed from policy of `keep it simple'

Transmission, wheel bearings, brakes drew fire
Apr. 8, 2006. 01:00 AM
MARK TOLJAGIC
SECOND-HAND


Have you ever played that psychological game where you think you're plunging your hand into a bucket of warm water that turns out to be ice-cold?

Try this on for size:

The 1998-2002 V6-powered Honda Accord is a problem-prone car.

Are you disoriented, trying to process information that is contrary to what you know is true?

So are some Accord owners.

"I was in a state of shock because I have believed that Honda was the best," read one posting on the Net.

The blogger had just finished replacing his transmission at 82,000 km.

So have others. Honda's 3.0-litre V6, coupled with the automatic transmission, has been a source of heartache and tears.

When we last looked at used Accords five years ago, owners were gushing.

"I give a moment of silence as I pass a Honda/Acura dealer in benevolent reverence for the absolute greatness of the vehicle," one owner wrote.

But something changed when the sixth-generation Accord arrived for 1998.

It's as if Honda had strayed from its "keep it simple" philosophy and found itself in unfamiliar territory: paying expensive warranty claims.


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CONFIGURATION

The 1998 Accord arrived as a swoopy two-door coupe or upright four-door sedan; the practical wagon had died with the last generation.

The car had been substantially reworked — yielding a roomy cabin and significantly bigger back seat that qualified the Accord as a large family sedan — without changing the wheelbase.

Occupants sat higher, in contrast to previous models.

The firm seats, done in durable, grippy cloth, offered good lateral support.

The dashboard was Honda simple, yet sleek and stylish with large, easy-to-read gauges.

Engineers continued to refine the sophisticated underpinnings of the car, adding a five-link independent rear suspension to keep up with the Accord's talented double-wishbone front suspension.

The base car used a 16-valve, 2.3-litre four, good for 150 hp and 152 lb.-ft. of torque.

Equipped with balance shafts, this all-aluminum motor was a paragon of Honda smoothness — know-how derived from building millions of lightweight motorcycle engines.

Optional was an American-built 3.0-litre V6 with variable intake-valve timing and lift.

The 24-valve, single-overhead- camshaft motor churned out a respectable 200 hp and 195 lb.-ft. of torque.

It replaced a 170-hp, 2.7-litre V6 in the previous-generation Accord, an engine that had been panned for being dull and apathetic.

The new V6 was attached to a four-speed automatic transmission, while the four-banger could be matched with the slushbox or standard five-speed manual.

The Accord changed little during its five-year model run.

It received an almost imperceptible facelift for 2001, with revised headlamps and taillights.

ON THE ROAD

As always, the spirited Accord was a joy to drive, offering more fun than the arch-rival Toyota Camry's passive ride.

This family car could generate 0.80 g on a circular skidpad, flirting with sports car performance numbers.

Braking was also good, requiring 55 metres to haul down from a speed of 112 km/h.

The four-cylinder Accord took 9.4 seconds to reach 96 km/h with the automatic. It was about a second quicker with the manual transmission.

The V6 models could accelerate to highway speed in just 7.6 seconds. Commendably, torque steering was non-existent.

Car and Driver anointed the Accord by naming it to the magazine's 10 Best list every year between 1998 and 2002, citing its refinement, high value and satisfying driving experience.

WHAT OWNERS REPORTED

Since its arrival in 1976, the Accord has enjoyed a sterling reputation among owners for its intelligent design, tidy dimensions, economical ownership and cast-iron durability.

With the advent of the 200-hp Accord V6, Honda could finally compete toe-to-toe with the Camry and Nissan Maxima.

Consumers lined up to buy one. But a disturbing portrait of the V6 car began to emerge.

"The Accord is a nightmare," reported one exasperated owner. "At 16,000 km, I had to put in a new transmission. Then again at 88,000 km."

A few have changed their automatic transmission three times,

Reader Peter Jung had a rebuilt transmission put in his '98 Accord EX-V6.

"Since I had Honda document harsh upshifting from first to second gear during the period between 83,283 km and 85,000 km, Honda paid for the transaxle and I paid for the $977 labour."

Test-drive automatic-transmission models carefully, especially the V6s.

If you feel a jarring clunk when shifting into the reverse or while driving, take a pass on that copy.

Other problems endemic to the 1998-2002 Accord include faulty EGR (exhaust-gas recirculation) valves and seatbelt sensors, as well as short-lived wheel bearings and alternators.

(Honda specified Delphi alternators instead of durable Denso units in some models.)

Some owners cited warped brake rotors, easily chipped paint, defective seat rails, disintegrating leather upholstery and interior squeaks and rattles.

It's quite a litany of complaints. "Wow! This is the only car I ever had that only lasted 40,000 km," an acerbic Web note said.

Take comfort in the fact that the four-cylinder Accord appears to be considerably more trouble-free.

In fact, the smooth, athletic 2.3-litre engine eliminates the need to seek out a V6 anyway.

An all-new Accord arrived for model year 2003.

The 2006 edition is Consumer Reports' Top Pick in its price range.

The Honda receives the magazine's best ratings for reliability and satisfaction in the annual auto issue, now on newstands.

I thought everyone knew about this. I even remember making fun of xcel repeatedly on insightcentral and greenhybrid a year or two ago that if he ever towed anything bigger than a lawnmower with his MDX, the transmission would explode.

The bad transmissions were pervasive throughout the entire V6 lineup, by the way. A friend of mine is on transmission #3 in their Odyssey and I've heard of one Acura CL owner that had their transmission fail with under a thousand miles on it even.

To be entirely honest, it would take a LONG time before I would ever trust any Honda with an automatic transmission. On the HX yahoo messageboard there have been many complaints of CVT failures. There's been a not-insignificant amount of CVT failures reported in the Civic Hybrid on GH as well as I believe that government evaluation where they had two CVT failures in 120,000 miles or so. I've known of both Honda Civic (non hybrid) and Acura Integra owners who've had their auto trannies blow up with under 100k miles too, both were well maintained.

Honda makes such excellent cars otherwise and I wouldn't at all hesitate to purchase a manual transmission version, but they should probably outsource their automatic transmission production to someone else.

[xcel]

Hi Brandon:

___Hey, I was over at AcuraMDX.org for almost a year before we brought our MDX home The 01/02 MDX tranny’s were the problem children from all my reads. The 03 - 04 7th gen Accord V6’s had tranny problems and the 2nd gear jet kit was their supposed fix? About all I can say is that with close to 50K miles of HS FAS’ing with the K24’s Auto, the 05 is holding up extremely well. I am extremely gentle with her though … There are quite a few items Honda cheapened up on the Accord’s over the previous 2 gen’s. Not just the std. front disc brakes on all Accord’s but also the Parking brake as well!

___As for the CVT based HCH’s, I found that Hybrid Testing article intriguing to say the least. Here is a repeat of my own questions/concerns/conclusions but it appears that the CVT based HCH was abused by the same driver? Look at the exact miles and location of the HCH-I w/ the wrecked CVT.

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HCH pdf #1: 2003 HCH w/ CVT - cost $25,834. Driven by Electric Transportation Application employee. 27,887 @ 36.26 mpg.

HCH pdf #2: 2003 HCH w/ CVT - cost $23,235. Driven by Electric Transportation Application employee. 24,451 miles @ 43.17 mpg.

HCH pdf #3: 2003 HCH w/ CVT - cost $23,174. Driven by Bank One’s courier pool. CVT and CAT failed at the 96 and 97K mark respectively. 104,593 miles @ 37.99 mpg.

HCH pdf #4: 2003 HCH w/ CVT - cost $23,174. Driven by Bank One’s courier pool. CVT and CAT failed at the 99 and 100K mark respectively. 104,381 miles @ 37.6 mpg.

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Insight pdf #1: 2001 Insight 5-speed - cost $22,387. Driven by Technology Development Fleet of APS. Battery Pack and Controller failed - Replaced under warranty. 68,287 miles @ 47.10 mpg.

Insight pdf #2: 2001 Insight CVT - cost $22,387. Driven by Bank One’s courier pool. 104,920 miles @ 44.38 mpg.

Insight pdf #3: 2001 Insight CVT - cost $21,170. Driven by Bank One’s courier pool. CVT failed at 89K. 110,175 miles @ 46.23 mpg.

Insight pdf #4: 2001 Insight CVT - cost $22,387. Driven by Grand Canyon Red Cross courier pool. 18,612 miles @ 49.36 mpg.

Insight pdf #5: 2001 Insight CVT – cost $22,887. Driven by Grand Canyon Red Cross courier pool. 15,746 miles @ 44.38 mpg.

Insight pdf #6: 2001 Insight CVT - cost $22,887. Driven by Grand Canyon Red Cross courier pool. 8,962 miles @ 46.38 mpg.

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Prius I pdf #1: 2002 Prius I - Cost $22,580. Driven by Technology Development Fleet of APS. 69,938 miles @ 39.71 mpg.

Prius I pdf #2: 2002 Prius I - Cost $21,655. Driven by Bank One’s courier pool. Rear hub and bearing failed at 40K. 106,995 miles @ 40.36 mpg.

Prius I pdf #3: 2002 Prius I - Cost $21,655. Driven by Bank One’s courier pool. Overheated and Rack and Pinion failed at 87K and 106K respectively. 105,795 miles @ 41.08 mpg.

Prius I pdf #4: 2002 Prius I - Cost $23,884. Driven by Bank One’s courier pool. 27,513 miles @ 43.68 mpg.

Prius I pdf #5: 2002 Prius I - Cost $23,064. Driven by Electric Transportation Application employee. 15,773 miles @ 45.21 mpg.

Prius I pdf #6: 2002 Prius I - Cost $23,255. Driven by Electric Transportation Application employee. Rack and Pinion failed at 25K and again @ 32K miles - Replaced under warranty. 17,490 miles @ 41.81mpg.

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Prius II’s 16,000 each with an accumulative mpg of 44.6 mpg.

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___I did notice a few outliers?

1. How did the HCH’s and Insight’s cost far more then MSRP?
2. Why did the 1 medium mileage Insight’s pack and controller fail?
3. Why did the 2 high mileage HCH CVT’s and CAT’s fail within just a few miles of one another? Someone from Bank One was probably neutral or brake dropping them by the sounds of it?
4. Why did the 1 high mileage Insight CVT fail?
5. How did the rack and pinions of the 2 Prius’ fail and the one with 2 failures at the 25K and 32 K mark only had 17,490 miles on it?

___Although these automobiles were more then likely abused similar to a rental car by those that drove them, the CVT and CAT failures sound very expensive for the HCH’s in particular.
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___Good Luck

___Wayne

[tigerhonaker]

Well, little did I know at the time I Posted this Article that it would bring out of the wood work responces so quick.