User Name Password    
CleanMPG, Learn to raise fuel economy and lower emissions in whatever you drive.  

2013 Volkswagen Passat TDI On A Guinness World Record Drive

MENU
• What is hypermiling? •
CleanMPG to AAA:
• Hypermiling Rebuttal •
 
• Home
• CleanMPG Staff
• Articles
• Fuel Economy Forums
      • Register
Go Hypermiling!

   Car Reviews:

2013 Elantra GT

2013 Elantra Coupe

2013 Lexus ES 300h

2013 Mazda CX-5


2013 Lexus GS 450h

2012 Prius c

2013 Malibu Eco

2012 Hyundai Accent
   Bike and Gear Reviews:

HTC Thunderbolt

2010 R 1200 GS (A)

Kawasaki KLX250SF

Zero S


Aerostich Darien

Shoei Hornet DS

Honda CRF230L

Yamaha XT250


• More Reviews
• Gallery
• Mileage Logs
 
• CleanMPG Store
 
• Calendar
• Glossary
• Garage
• Files
 
• Research
• Related Sites
 
• Archives
• Arcade
 
• Monthly Fuel Efficient •
Vehicle Sales Figures


ScanGauge with X-Gauge: $159.95

Pre-programming, a CleanMPG laser cut decal, and shipping included!



Even better value for members only is available in the latest SG-II w/ X-Gauge Group Buy purchase thread.



While we strive to provide only the highest quality information through our members' offerings, if you find the information provided valuable, please consider a donation so that we can offer an even better experience for the membership and guests well into the future.

Thank you

-Wayne Gerdes
Owner/Admin
CleanMPG



Home Fuel Economy Forums Gallery Mileage Logs

Register FAQ Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   CleanMPG Forums » Information » In the News


In the News News items that may be of interest. These show up on the front page.
Only Moderators may start threads, but anyone can respond to them.

Welcome to the CleanMPG forums.

Some posts may describe situations which may in some cases be unsafe or illegal in some jurisdictions. Please use common sense and consult your local laws to make sure you do not hurt yourself or others or break any laws.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view discussions, articles and access our other features. By joining our community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact support.

Coal Era Beckons for Europe as Carbon Giveaway Finishes

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   Submit to Clesto Submit to Digg Submit to Reddit Submit to Furl Submit to Del.icio.us Submit to Spurl
Old 09-21-2012, 09:54 PM
ALS's Avatar
ALS ALS is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2008
Vehicles: 1997 Volvo 960, 2010 Toyota Prius
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 4,390
Coal Era Beckons for Europe as Carbon Giveaway Finishes

The economics for coal are near the best we’ve seen in five years,

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/Coal_heading_towards_Coal_fired_plant.jpg
Mathew Carr - BLOOMBERG - September 21, 2012

As we shut our Coal plants down Europe and Asia are building new plants of their own. So how is that save the earth from coal agenda working out for the U.S. now ? --Ed.

European utilities are poised to add more coal-fired power capacity than natural gas in the next four years, boosting emissions just as the era of free carbon permits ends.

Power producers from EON AG to RWE AG (RWE) will open six times more coal-burning plants than gas-fed units by 2015, UBS AG said in a Sept. 5 research note. Profits at coal-fired power stations may more than double by then, according to a Goldman Sachs Group Inc. report published on Sept. 13.

The new stations, replacing atomic and aging fossil fuel- based plants, will boost demand for emission permits because coal-fired generators need twice as many credits as gas users under climate protection rules. The price of UN credits may rebound 73 percent by the end of next year from an all-time low on Sept. 18, according to the Euro Carbon Macro Fund in Luxembourg, which manages about $32 million.

“The economics for coal are near the best we’ve seen in five years,” Laurent Segalen, a director at ECMF, said yesterday in an interview from London. Buying UN credits for 2013, after they plunged almost 80 percent in the past year, is “an amazing bargain,” he said. ... [Read More]
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2   Submit to Clesto Submit to Digg Submit to Reddit Submit to Furl Submit to Del.icio.us Submit to Spurl
Old 09-22-2012, 12:44 AM
msirach's Avatar
msirach msirach is offline
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Vehicles: 2000 Insight,2010 Insight,2010 Prius Solar,2012 Volt Premium
Location: Harrisburg, IL
Posts: 5,968
Re: Coal Era Beckons for Europe as Carbon Giveaway Finishes

Much of the high sulfur coal mined around here is shipped to China. They don't have to worry about expensive pollution control equipment. We have new mines opening.
__________________
Read The CleanMPG Primer!
Reply With Quote
  #3   Submit to Clesto Submit to Digg Submit to Reddit Submit to Furl Submit to Del.icio.us Submit to Spurl
Old 09-22-2012, 03:53 AM
herm herm is offline
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,464
Re: Coal Era Beckons for Europe as Carbon Giveaway Finishes

Every last little bit of fossil fuel in the Earth will be dug up.. its just too useful as fuel, raw material for plastics and can even be used to make food. Europe will just have to take the efficiency hit and deploy clean coal power plants if they want to burn it.. lots of opportunity for companies that specialize in coal gasifiers.. hopefully the Chinese will do the same. Eventually everyone will do the same since CO2 and other waste products will become valuable materials... just dumping that stuff is wasteful.
Reply With Quote
  #4   Submit to Clesto Submit to Digg Submit to Reddit Submit to Furl Submit to Del.icio.us Submit to Spurl
Old 09-22-2012, 05:12 AM
ILAveo ILAveo is offline
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2007
Vehicles: 03 Ranger(mostly), 07 Aveo(sometimes), 96 Taurus(occasionally), 01 saturn SL1 (rarely)
Location: NW IL
Posts: 2,774
Re: Coal Era Beckons for Europe as Carbon Giveaway Finishes

The European coal boom doesn't have much to do with current conditions according to the article--“The buildout has nothing to do with low carbon prices,” Hummel said by e-mail on Sept. 14. “All these projects were already decided and kicked off several years ago, during the boom years of the utilities sector.”

If the Europeans unlock significant gas reserves via fracking I'd expect them to establish more natural gas (NG) power plants. As things now stand, it is easier for the US and Australia to export energy resources via coal than NG. If low NG prices in the US persist I'd expect the construction of infrastructure for NG exports to the EU/China.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #5   Submit to Clesto Submit to Digg Submit to Reddit Submit to Furl Submit to Del.icio.us Submit to Spurl
Old 09-22-2012, 08:14 AM
msirach's Avatar
msirach msirach is offline
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Vehicles: 2000 Insight,2010 Insight,2010 Prius Solar,2012 Volt Premium
Location: Harrisburg, IL
Posts: 5,968
Re: Coal Era Beckons for Europe as Carbon Giveaway Finishes

If we have a cold winter as predicted, the false low price of natural gas is going to skyrocket. The coal plants that have converted to gas use many therms. Throw in the residential and commercial heating load of a cold winter, the reserve supply will diminish and the price will rise.

In May, the price of natural gas was about $2.10 and that has risen to the the $2.50 to $2.60 range. The break even point for our coal is around $2.00. At that, our cost per megawatt is around $22.
__________________
Read The CleanMPG Primer!
Reply With Quote
  #6   Submit to Clesto Submit to Digg Submit to Reddit Submit to Furl Submit to Del.icio.us Submit to Spurl
Old 09-22-2012, 08:24 AM
ALS's Avatar
ALS ALS is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2008
Vehicles: 1997 Volvo 960, 2010 Toyota Prius
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 4,390
Re: Coal Era Beckons for Europe as Carbon Giveaway Finishes

Mike, NG is now up to $2.885 as of the close on Friday.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #7   Submit to Clesto Submit to Digg Submit to Reddit Submit to Furl Submit to Del.icio.us Submit to Spurl
Old 09-22-2012, 08:30 AM
herm herm is offline
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,464
Re: Coal Era Beckons for Europe as Carbon Giveaway Finishes

2.2 cents per kWh is cheap.. does that include delivery?
Reply With Quote
  #8   Submit to Clesto Submit to Digg Submit to Reddit Submit to Furl Submit to Del.icio.us Submit to Spurl
Old 09-22-2012, 09:26 AM
xcel's Avatar
xcel xcel is offline
PZEV, there's nothing like it :)
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Vehicles: Accord, Ranger, and anything else ;)
Location: Northern Illinois
Posts: 43,022
Re: Coal Era Beckons for Europe as Carbon Giveaway Finishes

Hi Herm:

That price is at the BUS Bar, not on the wires.

Wayne
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #9   Submit to Clesto Submit to Digg Submit to Reddit Submit to Furl Submit to Del.icio.us Submit to Spurl
Old 09-22-2012, 03:13 PM
50 mpg by 2012 50 mpg by 2012 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Vehicles: 95 Odyssey, 95 Civic
Location: NC, USA
Posts: 470
Re: Coal Era Beckons for Europe as Carbon Giveaway Finishes

About 2 years ago I researched coal fired electric generation.

IIRC, China's new coal plants were said to be 50% to 55% efficient compared to US best case 36%.

Of course the degree of emissions abatement of the new Chinese coal plants is certainly up for discussion. But the word is that the new plants are "significantly cleaner" than the ones they force to be decomissioned (by national requirement).

Don't remember seeing any information regarding European coal-electric facilities.


Question: Doesn't most of Europe's NG come from the Russian states and/or the near East?


As for US long term NG pricing ... only up. Just wait a few years for the large LNG facility in the Gulf free trade zone to become operational and watch exports to China, Europe, and Japan to explode. It might be worth checking out construction activity of LNG tankers as well ... just as a possible investment thought.
Reply With Quote
  #10   Submit to Clesto Submit to Digg Submit to Reddit Submit to Furl Submit to Del.icio.us Submit to Spurl
Old 09-22-2012, 04:11 PM
msirach's Avatar
msirach msirach is offline
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Vehicles: 2000 Insight,2010 Insight,2010 Prius Solar,2012 Volt Premium
Location: Harrisburg, IL
Posts: 5,968
Re: Coal Era Beckons for Europe as Carbon Giveaway Finishes

Quote:
Originally Posted by herm View Post
2.2 cents per kWh is cheap.. does that include delivery?
As Wayne mentioned, that is the bus bar cost. Last month my usage at home worked out to 9.87 cents per kw. That was with the taxes, delivery, etc.
__________________
Read The CleanMPG Primer!
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Carbon capture plan on experimental coal plant completely changed Chuck In the News 0 08-08-2010 12:29 PM
Hackers Hit Europe’s Carbon Market Chuck In the News 0 02-04-2010 09:41 PM
Europe may be alone on Carbon Trading Chuck In the News 0 09-28-2009 02:36 PM
Eyes on World's 1st Carbon Capture Coal Plant Chuck Environmental 5 09-23-2009 02:56 PM
Coal's Future Wagered on Carbon Capture Chuck In the News 4 08-16-2009 10:16 PM



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:52 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2006 - 2013, Clean MPG LLC. All Rights Reserved.