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To Top Tier or Not To Top Tier, That Is the Question?

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Old 09-07-2012, 09:21 AM
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xcel xcel is offline
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To Top Tier or Not To Top Tier, That Is the Question?

Do you top tier?

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/Filling_up_the_SUV.jpg
Wayne Gerdes - CleanMPG - Sept. 7, 2012

Phillips 66, 76 and Conoco released results of a nationwide survey they conjured up that evaluated millennials' gas purchasing habits and decisions. The survey, taken by 1,018 American men and women age 21-30 who drive and are primary purchasers of gasoline, reveals that nearly half (49 percent) regularly fuel up with unbranded gasoline.

While there is some carbon build up when using the basic detergent gasoline’s, the majors always want to add a few $’s to their pockets by claiming a difference exists. At this year’s Chicago Auto Show this past February, Shell had a display of two vehicles run 30K miles, one fueled on their Shell fuel and one on another non-disclosed fuel with the non-disclosed fuel showing more deposits stuck to the valves backsides.

Of course the display tenders were saying there was a difference in FE but I was skeptical given detergent additive packages are sometimes added at the blender like ethanol and sometimes not. And we all know a given refinery in a central location supplies all the fuel for a local or regions needs.

What I did not ask is if switching gasoline’s like most of us do deepening on our travel itinerary or simply price shopping is would a top-tier gasoline clean deposits on once every 5 or 10 fillips?

In any case, Conoco Phillips states engine deposit build-up over time “can” inhibit gas mileage and engine performance.

While 84 percent of respondents say they are more likely to care about their car's engine performance than its appearance, one in four (25 percent) millennial drivers admits they are not putting the best gas into their cars for long-term auto health. What's driving these contradictory gas decisions for today's millennial drivers?

Pricing

The survey findings showed that for more than half (54 percent) of those polled, cost is the most important factor when selecting which gas to use. 55 percent of respondents think the type of gas they use does matter for performance, but only 42 percent are likely to take the brand at the pump into consideration before purchasing. And while nearly half of respondents (41 percent) think additives signify quality gas, only three percent think this feature is key when selecting their gas.

What the survey did not point out was the percentage performance loss from one gasoline to another which of course would be minimal even if there was more build up from one brand to the next because anyone driving their car at WOT to test this out would be 1. Dead, 2. In the hospital or 3. Have lost their license long ago.

And the industry spin?

Tami Walker, Manager, U.S. Fuels Brand Management for Phillips 66, 76 and Conoco:
Quote:
"What this survey tells us is that millennial drivers care about their cars, but they're quick to use the gas that they think will save money in the short-term, without considering the performance impacts the resulting engine build-up may be causing long-term. We know that TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline’s, like our fuels, which offer more detergent additives than legally required, improve car performance almost immediately. We're committed to demonstrating to young drivers the value and benefits from Phillips 66, 76 and Conoco branded gas, and consistently offering high quality fuels that provide cleaner intake valves and fuel injectors within the first five fill-ups."
Of course nothing was mentioned about the fuel saving benefits of non-ethanol laced fuels and those mostly come from unbranded stations.

According to the survey, 98 percent of millennial drivers who use what Conoco calls “inferior gas” would upgrade, with 45 percent willing to switch if superior or branded gas increased gas mileage and 35 percent willing to make the change if they believed there was a difference in the quality of the gas.

And here is a bought and paid for endorsement of said fuel:

Jessi Lang, host of Motor Trend's "Wide Open Throttle" and Phillips 66 spokesperson:
Quote:
"Millennials think they're saving money by seeking out cheaper gas, but what they don't realize is that the unbranded gasoline they're buying actually can cost them money in the long run by compromising their fuel economy and causing build-up in their engine. By using branded TOP TIER gas like Phillips 66, 76 and Conoco, these drivers can clean up their engines and accrue significant savings over time -- especially now that these brands have had the detergent additive treat rate increased by more than 25 percent in all fuel grades."
This survey was conducted by Kelton between July 19-25, 2012, among 1,018 American men and women age 21-30 who drive and are primary gasoline purchasers, using an email invitation and an online survey. Results of any sample are subject to sampling variation.

In any case, detergent minimums have declined over the years and if you are looking for top-teir, here is a list of US and Canadian retailers that sell it. Unfortunately most will be fuel robbing ethanol laced gasoline but that is an entirely different discussion that Mr. Jessi Lang would probably not know or care anything about?

TOP TIER Gasoline Retailers

USA

76 Stations
Aloha Petroleum
Chevron
Conoco
CountryMark
Entec Stations
Exxon
Hawaii Fueling Network (HFN)
Holiday Stationstores, Inc.
Kwik Trip / Kwik Star
MFA Oil Co.
Mileage Stations
Mobil
Ohana Fuels
Phillips 66
Quik Trip
Rebel Oil
Road Ranger
Severson Oil
Shell
Texaco
Tri-Par Oil Co.
U.S. Oil

Canada

Chevron Canada
Esso
Petro-Canada
Shell Canada

If you can find non-ethanol laced fuel at any of the above, definitely go for it. If you can find inexpensive gasoline at the Top-Tier station as the non-branded stations near you, go for it. If you cannot, it is $’s out of your wallet as soon as you swipe your credit card.
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Old 09-07-2012, 09:26 AM
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Re: To Top Tier or Not To Top Tier, That Is the Question?

My selection process:
1. Avoid sketchy looking stations.
2. Use stations on or near my route.
3. Once 1 and 2 are satisfied, choose by price.

Oh, and pump speed. Slow = good for consistent fill levels.
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Old 09-07-2012, 09:29 AM
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Re: To Top Tier or Not To Top Tier, That Is the Question?

I was filling up my car a couple of years ago at a Speedway near O'Hare (Touhy Ave.) There was a tanker truck just finishing up filling the tanks. He pulled out and went west, and I pulled out behind him. Next thing you know, 2 block away, he pulls into the Shell station. It really does come from the same hole in the ground, based on what I saw that night.
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Old 09-07-2012, 10:03 AM
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Re: To Top Tier or Not To Top Tier, That Is the Question?

Same here, only with a Chevron, Texaco and Valero station all in the same trip. Those three stations were, for a while, the three in town with ethanol-free fuel. Then, at the same time, they all switched to E10.
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Old 09-07-2012, 10:21 AM
Bruce Bruce is offline
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Re: To Top Tier or Not To Top Tier, That Is the Question?

All MA stations dispense E10.

I just buy whatever is cheap and throw in a bottle of detergent once a year (~5000 mi).

I did throw a P0420 code earlier this summer that was cleared up with some top engine treatment -- half a bottle of Seafoam in the vacuum hose and a bottle of Techron in the tank -- so that's an indication deposits needed to be cleaned up. I may start doing this yearly.

If it's a 10c/gal premium for Top Tier (some actual cost, some extra distance to the station) that'd be ~$12.50/yr for me...roughly the same cost either way. But extra distance to a Top Tier station burns more time.
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Old 09-07-2012, 11:21 AM
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Re: To Top Tier or Not To Top Tier, That Is the Question?

I wonder if all you people having trouble with ethanol fortified gasoline are using top tier brands?
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Old 09-07-2012, 11:51 AM
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Re: To Top Tier or Not To Top Tier, That Is the Question?

My usual is Shell (on route, decent price, good pumps). My Scangauge calibration is 3% lower than before.
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Old 09-07-2012, 11:55 AM
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Re: To Top Tier or Not To Top Tier, That Is the Question?

I'm surprised to not see Sunoco on this list. They seem pretty major.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xcel View Post
TOP TIER Gasoline Retailers

USA

76 Stations
Aloha Petroleum
Chevron
Conoco
CountryMark
Entec Stations
Exxon
Hawaii Fueling Network (HFN)
Holiday Stationstores, Inc.
Kwik Trip / Kwik Star
MFA Oil Co.
Mileage Stations
Mobil
Ohana Fuels
Phillips 66
Quik Trip
Rebel Oil
Road Ranger
Severson Oil
Shell
Texaco
Tri-Par Oil Co.
U.S. Oil
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Old 09-07-2012, 12:02 PM
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Re: To Top Tier or Not To Top Tier, That Is the Question?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderstruck View Post
I was filling up my car a couple of years ago at a Speedway near O'Hare (Touhy Ave.) There was a tanker truck just finishing up filling the tanks. He pulled out and went west, and I pulled out behind him. Next thing you know, 2 block away, he pulls into the Shell station. It really does come from the same hole in the ground, based on what I saw that night.
My understanding is that the additives that make Shell Shell and Chevron Chevron can be added by the trucker sometimes, so the trucker may be hauling raw gasoline and adding the specific detergents, etc. at the retailer.

The Top Tier designation didn't come about by accident. It came about because of the coziness of the regulating agency (the EPA) to the industry being regulated. This resulted in an EPA detergency requirement that was too low to keep valves, injectors, and other components free of harmful deposits. Most gasoline makers delivered detergency levels right down to those inadequate EPA requirements and car makers were left with expensive warranty repairs from the damage.

The Top Tier designation was the car makers' response to the problem. They ignored the EPA and came up with their own gasoline standard where the detergency levels are about double the EPA standard. In California, CARB also has detergency requirements that are roughly twice the EPA standard, so I'm not sure that the Top Tier designation matters as much here. But in the other states I would buy Top Tier.

The initial Top Tier list was very short. I remember Chevron being on the first list, but few others. I see Mobil is a fairly recent addition.

Last edited by Jay : 09-07-2012 at 12:08 PM.
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Old 09-07-2012, 12:37 PM
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Re: To Top Tier or Not To Top Tier, That Is the Question?

I like Chevron, first off because of the name/reputation, but also because they're the only brand in town (at least that I know of) where you don't have to feed %*&!$ coins into a machine to get air.
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