User Name Password    
CleanMPG, Learn to raise fuel economy and lower emissions in whatever you drive.  
MENU
• What is hypermiling? •
CleanMPG to AAA:
• Hypermiling Rebuttal •
 
• Home
• CleanMPG Staff
• Articles
• Fuel Economy Forums
      • Register
Go Hypermiling!

   Car Reviews:

2013 Elantra GT

2013 Elantra Coupe

2013 Lexus ES 300h

2013 Mazda CX-5


2013 Lexus GS 450h

2012 Prius c

2013 Malibu Eco

2012 Hyundai Accent
   Bike and Gear Reviews:

HTC Thunderbolt

2010 R 1200 GS (A)

Kawasaki KLX250SF

Zero S


Aerostich Darien

Shoei Hornet DS

Honda CRF230L

Yamaha XT250


• More Reviews
• Gallery
• Mileage Logs
 
• CleanMPG Store
 
• Calendar
• Glossary
• Garage
• Files
 
• Research
• Related Sites
 
• Archives
• Arcade
 
• Monthly Fuel Efficient •
Vehicle Sales Figures


ScanGauge with X-Gauge: $159.95

Pre-programming, a CleanMPG laser cut decal, and shipping included!



Even better value for members only is available in the latest SG-II w/ X-Gauge Group Buy purchase thread.



While we strive to provide only the highest quality information through our members' offerings, if you find the information provided valuable, please consider a donation so that we can offer an even better experience for the membership and guests well into the future.

Thank you

-Wayne Gerdes
Owner/Admin
CleanMPG



Home Fuel Economy Forums Gallery Mileage Logs

Register FAQ Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   CleanMPG Forums » Information » In the News


In the News News items that may be of interest. These show up on the front page.
Only Moderators may start threads, but anyone can respond to them.

Welcome to the CleanMPG forums.

Some posts may describe situations which may in some cases be unsafe or illegal in some jurisdictions. Please use common sense and consult your local laws to make sure you do not hurt yourself or others or break any laws.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view discussions, articles and access our other features. By joining our community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact support.

Ethanol Industry Continues To Provide More Spin Then Substance

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   Submit to Clesto Submit to Digg Submit to Reddit Submit to Furl Submit to Del.icio.us Submit to Spurl
Old 08-30-2012, 09:41 PM
xcel's Avatar
xcel xcel is offline
PZEV, there's nothing like it :)
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Vehicles: Accord, Ranger, and anything else ;)
Location: Northern Illinois
Posts: 42,659
Ethanol Industry Continues To Provide More Spin Then Substance

The real price tells a different story.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/ethanol-added.jpg
Wayne Gerdes - CleanMPG - Aug. 30, 2012

Ethanol added at a cost we are all forced to bear

Gas Prices Spike, Ethanol Offers Stability and Consumer Savings

With gas prices in the $4 per gallon range, many Americans are electing to stay home.

According to the ethanol lobby, oil companies are blaming Hurricane Isaac for causing the sudden inflation.

Have they?

Tom Buis, CEO of Growth Energy:
Quote:
"The oil market is so volatile and ethanol has served as a stabilizing factor that can help control costs by providing a level of certainty. Ethanol currently makes up 10 percent of our nation's fuel supply and it has helped prevent extreme spikes in gas prices. Independent studies have shown that the inclusion of ethanol has saved consumers from $0.17 cents to $1.09 a gallon."
Unfortunately he failed to state the costs of using ethanol (E10) including the 2 to 3% loss of FE costs the entire nation (367.1 million gallons/day *.025 * $3.88/gallon) = $35.6 million USD per day or $13 Billion USD per year.

In addition, these jokesters had the gall to state consumers who drive Flex Fuel vehicles can see substantial savings by filling up with E85!

Really, they said that!

According to E85 Prices – Illinois, the latest entry has E85 costing $2.99 per gallon and gasoline costing $3.99 in Rockford, IL.


To drive the 2012 Ford F-150 3.7L FFV with an EPA rating of 19 mpg combined on gasoline and 14 mpg combined on E85 200 miles with these prices cost $42 for regular unleaded and $42.71 on E85.

On the same site, the IL average cost for E85 is 3.40 to Regular unleaded at $3.94 making the comparison truly onerous.

Buis continued:
Quote:
"It is the least expensive motor fuel on the market and consumers can trust in a fuel that supports the American economy, powers NASCAR and reduces our dependence on foreign oil. Not to mention that it burns cleaner than conventional gasoline, also improving our environment.
The site he is in charge of Ethanol Retailer provides consumers with the resources to find the nearest flex pumps to fill up and “save” money.

He meant to say cost you money but who are we to say how to save $’s at the pump?

It gets better…
Quote:
"The ethanol industry is committed to giving consumers with a choice when they fill up – they can choose to support foreign oil, which costs more and sends their hard earned dollars overseas to OPEC, or they can choose to support the American economy and energy independence by filling up with less expensive, home-grown American ethanol, and I am convinced they will choose the latter"
So Ethanol has a positive energy balance but it does not have a consumer savings balance and that is what costs you and I every damn time we turn the key. Unless we use non-ethanol laced fuel, commute on the plug or take public transportation running on diesel.

Did you enjoy my Op Ed?
__________________
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2   Submit to Clesto Submit to Digg Submit to Reddit Submit to Furl Submit to Del.icio.us Submit to Spurl
Old 08-30-2012, 09:56 PM
08EscapeHybrid 08EscapeHybrid is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Vehicles: 08 Escape Hybrid 4x4 "The Toaster"
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 950
Re: Ethanol Industry Continues To Provide More Spin Then Substance

Quote:
The ethanol industry is committed to giving consumers with a choice when they fill up – they can choose to support foreign oil, which costs more and sends their hard earned dollars overseas to OPEC, or they can choose to support the American economy and energy independence by filling up with less expensive, home-grown American ethanol, and I am convinced they will choose the latter
CHOICE??? I wish I had the choice. I have to drive at least 40 miles to find an ethanol free station, and I have yet to find a station that sells ethanol free premium for my motorcycle. Give me my supposed choice, and make it so I don't have to drive 40 miles to get it. I was forced to fill with E10 earlier this summer, and it took me about 4 tanks before my mileage recovered to my pre-E10 levels. On my FEH E10 is a 6-8 MPG penalty.
Reply With Quote
  #3   Submit to Clesto Submit to Digg Submit to Reddit Submit to Furl Submit to Del.icio.us Submit to Spurl
Old 08-30-2012, 11:48 PM
darrelldb1's Avatar
darrelldb1 darrelldb1 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Vehicles: 2012 Hyundai Sonata Hybrid, 2001 Buick Regal, 1990 Ford Ranger
Posts: 55
Re: Ethanol Industry Continues To Provide More Spin Then Substance

I also have no choice. I can't find unpolluted fuel anywhere near me.
Reply With Quote
  #4   Submit to Clesto Submit to Digg Submit to Reddit Submit to Furl Submit to Del.icio.us Submit to Spurl
Old 08-31-2012, 02:21 AM
waltermlee's Avatar
waltermlee waltermlee is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 361
Re: Ethanol Industry Continues To Provide More Spin Then Substance

The gasohol argument about 3% loss of fuel efficiency is bogus.

The real world fuel efficiency penality for using 10% ethanol is higher.

In older conventional gas cars, many experience a fuel efficiency loss of 7% and more from using 10% ethanol. Even in newer hybrid cars, the fuel efficiency loss from 10% ethanol is still above 5%...

For example,
This summer on PriusChat two 3rd generation Prius were hypermiled
to achieve 800 miles on one tank of gas.

The Prius using 100% gas got 77.5 mpg (mark)
The Prius using 10% ethanol gas got 73.4 mpg (me)

The 10% ethanol gas represents a drop of 4.1 mpg more or drop of 5.29% in fuel efficiency.

btw:
The foriegn oil argument is bogus. The USA is now a net exporter of oil.
The idea that ethanol is a choice is bogus. Since 1996, 10% Ethanol was mandated in metro areas - so cars are required to use 10% ethanol,

On the good side
Since we are a net exporter of oil - higher oil prices will help our overall economy
and reduce our trade deficit with China ( who is one of our main buyer of oil and gas).

On the bad side
Since most of the increase in oil prices occur during commodities futures speculation bidding process, wall street financiers and hedge funds will be main/only beneficiaries to the higher oil and gas prices. The rest of us will just have to suffer until something trickles down our way...
__________________


ScangaugeII (TPS,IGN,Fwt,AVG)+ (SoC,Flv, GPH, RPM)

Last edited by waltermlee : 08-31-2012 at 02:27 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #5   Submit to Clesto Submit to Digg Submit to Reddit Submit to Furl Submit to Del.icio.us Submit to Spurl
Old 08-31-2012, 06:02 AM
Bruce Bruce is offline
cheapskate
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Vehicles: 1999 Chevrolet Prizm
Location: Boston MetroWest
Posts: 614
Re: Ethanol Industry Continues To Provide More Spin Then Substance

The cost of the FE drop from E10 is small potatoes compared to the potential for increased maintenance costs, especially for carbureted engines.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #6   Submit to Clesto Submit to Digg Submit to Reddit Submit to Furl Submit to Del.icio.us Submit to Spurl
Old 08-31-2012, 07:16 AM
talonts's Avatar
talonts talonts is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 17
Re: Ethanol Industry Continues To Provide More Spin Then Substance

Around here, you can buy E0 gas lots of places, as it is needed for boats. It's also more expensive than Premium, so it ends up costing more per mile than buying the E10.

And they're pushing for E15/E20 to be standard. I can't wait for the lawsuits to start on that one. Many vehicles will see obvious, quick damage at those levels.
__________________
--
Tom Stangl
* http://www.vfaq.net/
* Prius Visual FAQ Home
* 04 Prius AM #7
* 06 Prius NL #7
* http://www.vfaq.com/
* DSM Visual FAQ home
* 90 Talon AWD Turbo
Reply With Quote
  #7   Submit to Clesto Submit to Digg Submit to Reddit Submit to Furl Submit to Del.icio.us Submit to Spurl
Old 08-31-2012, 07:31 AM
08EscapeHybrid 08EscapeHybrid is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Vehicles: 08 Escape Hybrid 4x4 "The Toaster"
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 950
Re: Ethanol Industry Continues To Provide More Spin Then Substance

My favorite E0 station sells E0 for $0.10/gal more (which is still cheaper than E10 in my town) than E10. $0.10/gal for 6-8 MPG more? That's a no-brainer. Unfortunately, I only find myself out that way about every 10 days, so I have to try and make it last.
Reply With Quote
  #8   Submit to Clesto Submit to Digg Submit to Reddit Submit to Furl Submit to Del.icio.us Submit to Spurl
Old 08-31-2012, 07:57 AM
saturnsc2 saturnsc2 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Vehicles: 1997 saturn sc2
Location: jackson, tn
Posts: 211
Re: Ethanol Industry Continues To Provide More Spin Then Substance

it is frustrating to have a older car and try to run this crap in it. I too cannot find any premium grade ethanol free gas, only 87 octane. That means my 67 mustang
(weekend car) has to get a mix of 93 octane e10, and 87 non eth. This is the only workable scenario I see. This is the govts way of getting old "clunkers" off the road.
The unfortunate thing is, not all old cars are clunkers, plenty are well maintaned and do not burn oil or cause a safety risk. It's hard on those that have dirtbikes or motorcycles
or older cars as a weekend hobby.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #9   Submit to Clesto Submit to Digg Submit to Reddit Submit to Furl Submit to Del.icio.us Submit to Spurl
Old 08-31-2012, 11:47 AM
Jay's Avatar
Jay Jay is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Vehicles: Acura RSX Honda VFR750F
Location: Arroyo Grande, CA
Posts: 276
Re: Ethanol Industry Continues To Provide More Spin Then Substance

Quote:
Originally Posted by talonts View Post
...And they're pushing for E15/E20 to be standard. I can't wait for the lawsuits to start on that one. Many vehicles will see obvious, quick damage at those levels.
The politicians have that covered. The oil companies are already protected from such lawsuits.

In CA they don't even mark the gas pumps so that consumers can know which fuels contain ethanol and how much. Nothing to see here...move along.

Write your congresscritter? I've already written the fem dems that rule CA and they are solidly in favor of ethanol contaminated gasoline. And you just can't seem to vote them out for some strange reason.
Reply With Quote
  #10   Submit to Clesto Submit to Digg Submit to Reddit Submit to Furl Submit to Del.icio.us Submit to Spurl
Old 09-01-2012, 04:40 AM
civic94coupe206 civic94coupe206 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 121
Re: Ethanol Industry Continues To Provide More Spin Then Substance

pretty much true. at 4 a gallon here, i was planning to drive to portland or from seattle, but I canceled the trip. its going to cost me 55 bucks round trip, I wish I would of drove last month when gas was dropping every week, and it hit 3.20 per gallon. I was hoping that it would be at 2.90 or so, or about 35 bucks.

im unemployed, I just want a getaway for one day out of the year. ill use that 55 dollars for something more productive around here
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Karma continues to win awards and provide owners a unique experience Right Lane Cruiser In the News 1 01-18-2012 07:37 PM
Ethanol CEO says industry can compete without Fed subsidy Chuck In the News 13 12-10-2011 10:00 PM
2012 electric Coda is plain but packed with substance Right Lane Cruiser In the News 10 11-17-2011 12:46 PM
America’s Ethanol Industry Still Playing Games Says Brazilian Sugarcane Industry xcel In the News 7 12-07-2010 04:55 PM
Ethanol Industry Braces for Growing Pains. xcel In the News 0 03-21-2006 03:23 AM



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:50 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2006 - 2013, Clean MPG LLC. All Rights Reserved.