Toyota to start selling hydrogen fuel-cell car in 2015

[ALS]

Within 10 years, I think they will be as affordable as full battery vehicles, and the fuel cell will have a big advantage in range,

Alisa Priddle - USATODAY - August 9, 2012

Toyota plans to sell a fuel-cell vehicle in 2015, which would make it a leader in a technology that most other automakers regard as about 10 years from being marketable.

Toyota is sticking to its timetable of selling a fuel-cell sedan in three years, said Justin Ward, advanced powertrain program manager at the Toyota Technical Center in Ann Arbor, Mich.

Initially, it likely will be sold in California, which plans to have 68 hydrogen fueling stations by the end of 2015, Ward said at the Center for Automotive Research Management Briefing Seminars. Michigan has not made a similar commitment.

Ward said the fuel-cell car will be available for both retail and commercial sale.

Honda has sold a few hundred of its FCX Clarity fuel cell-electric cars since 2008, mostly in California.... [Read More]

[Jay]

About 10 years ago Pop Science magazine had pictures of a Chrysler fuel-cell car that would run on gasoline. Fast forward to today and the car is nowhere to be found, and not even on the horizon.

If Toyota is truly able to bring this car to market in 2015, what good is it with little to no hydrogen fueling infrastructure? Cars can already run on hydrogen with conventional engines. The problem is that hydrogen is a difficult gas to store. How does a fuel cell engine overcome that? Is this going to be another car, like pure electrics, that no one will buy because they're too expensive and can't go anywhere?

I'd like to hear that Toyota is releasing their FT-Bh prototype-like car for sale. That car is imminently doable and practical.

[WriConsult]

HFC cars do indeed have a big advantage over BEVs in range, but NOT necessarily in efficiency. Hydrogen might indeed be everywhere, but it doesn't contain any usable energy unless it is separated from the oxygen it's normally bound to -- and electrolysis of water consumes a lot more energy than you get back out from the hydrogen.

[CRT1]

I think the "hydrogen economy" is a pie-in-the-sky scam intended to reinforce the status quo. We can flap our gums about how committed we are to building a better future without recognizing that the future starts tomorrow, not 50 years from now.

Much like: Hey, I know, let's gut NASA's earth sciences budget and put all of the money into sending humans to Mars 50 years from now for no apparent reason other than that it would be cool.

We already have all the technologies we need to drastically reduce the energy consumption of our transportation fleets and building infrastructures. We just need to commit to it and roll it out, not just in the margins, but in the mainstream.

[WriConsult]

I agree with you, CRT1. It takes advantage of people's lack of awareness that hydrogen is merely a storage medium, and NOT a new fuel source.

[rfruth]

I would guess Toyota wants to be seen as a leader in a technology

[CRT1]

Originally Posted by rfruth

I would guess Toyota wants to be seen as a leader in a technology

That is OK, I did not mean to knock Toyota, just the pols pushing falsehoods. If you can find a way to generate electricity for nearly free then perhaps a Hydrogen Fuel Cell car would make more sense than any other vehicle, but . . . .

[Right Lane Cruiser]

Originally Posted by Jay

... pure electrics, that no one will buy because they're too expensive and can't go anywhere?

I won't debate the too expensive part, but my pure electric has spent 2500mi of going anywhere in the last 3mo. Our gasoline usage is about a third of what it was before I got this car.

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Originally Posted by CRT1

That is OK, I did not mean to knock Toyota, just the pols pushing falsehoods. If you can find a way to generate electricity for nearly free then perhaps a Hydrogen Fuel Cell car would make more sense than any other vehicle, but . . . .

The lure of HFCV is that you can generate the fuel from water, the tailpipe emissions are water, and it has a high enough density and fast enough refueling that it could be used universally. Also, because it makes use of electric drive and batteries, they could, balancing costs, be made plug-in for some larger vehicles.

The problem is that it needs to be affordable, desirable and practical for the market and there's still a lot to overcome before it can be that, the 2015 target notwithstanding.

Meanwhile, it will have to compete with growth in CNGV and improving PEV (both BEV and PHEV), HEV, GICEV and DICEV.

I won't write it off, but I'm certainly not counting on it and instead I'm expecting incremental improvements in the competition and re-urbanization gradually to reduce fossil fuel for transportation in the USA. Whatever the solution is, it'll be better than we have now.

[herm]

With new high temperature nuclear reactors you can make cheap hydrogen, pretty handy for upgrading heavy tar sands oil into usable stuff.. but it will take 20 years to design and certify them, if ever.. once you get above 800°C you can do all kinds of magical chemistry stuff.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_IV_reactor