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Reminder: Change oil every ... 12,000 miles?

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Old 03-22-2007, 01:17 AM
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Reminder: Change oil every ... 12,000 miles?

With new formulas, driving style will determine frequency, automakers say.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/Mobil1_0W-201.jpg
AP - Mar. 21, 2007

Today’s Mobil1 0W-20. Higher quality, improved FE and increased intervals between changes then what was available just 10 years ago.

DETROIT - Most major automakers agree: The adage that you should change your car’s oil every 3,000 miles is outdated, and even 5,000 miles may be too often.

Ford Motor Co. became the latest manufacturer to extend its oil life guidelines, making public that it is raising the recommended oil change interval from 5,000 miles to 7,500 on its newly redesigned 2007 models and all subsequent redesigned or new models.

The company, like many other manufacturers, said Tuesday that higher oil quality standards and new engine designs were responsible for the change, which affects vehicles driven under normal conditions.

“The oils have advanced a lot since the days when 3,000 miles were the typical oil drains,” said Dennis Bachelder, senior engineer for the American Petroleum Institute, an industry organization that sets quality standards. “They’re certainly more robust than the oils of 10, 15 years ago.”

These days, motor oils start with a higher-quality base oil than in the past, and they have more antioxidants that make lubricating properties last longer and other additives that keep deposits from forming on engines, Bachelder said.

Pete Misangyi, Ford’s supervisor of fuel lubricants, said the company conducted numerous fleet and laboratory tests with newer oils before it raised the interval.

“That allows more comfort, if you will, in extending the intervals using the new oils,” he said.

Some manufacturers, such as Honda Motor Co. and General Motors Corp., have stopped making recommendations on all or most of their models, instead relying on sensors that measure oil temperature extremes and engine revolutions over time to calculate oil life and tell drivers when to get the lubricant changed. Oil can lose its lubricating properties if it runs at too low or too high of a temperature.

Peter Lord, executive director of GM’s service operations, said oil can last 12,000 miles or even more for many drivers who don’t run their vehicles in extreme heat or cold or tow heavy loads.

“It really does depend on the individual customer and how they’ve used the vehicle,” he said.

Ford said it has found that its customers like a set mileage for service rather than wait for a sensor to tell them what to do.

For those who don’t believe the sensors, Lord says GM has reams of data showing that they’re reliable, and they notify drivers far in advance of when a change is necessary.

“We are absolutely confident of the technology. We back it with a 100,000 mile powertrain warranty now, so there’s no doubt in our mind that this technology works,” he said.

The longer oil life can save customers money. Ford estimates that drivers would save $600 over a five-year period by going from 5,000 miles to 7,500 between oil changes.

“From an environmental perspective we can save an enormous amount of oil,” Lord said. “There’s no point in wasting precious oil changing it prematurely. And we don’t have to dispose of so much waste oil, either.”

When to change oil is not without controversy, though.

Toyota Motor Corp. reduced its change interval from 7,500 miles to 5,000 in 2004 in part because it found that more drivers ran their vehicles under severe stop-and-start and short trip conditions that cause oil to deteriorate more quickly, said company spokesman Bill Kwong.

Toyota also had an oil sludge buildup problem on less than 1 percent of its 1997-2002 model year vehicles, Kwong said. Changing the oil more frequently prevents the sludge problem, which he said was caused by owners going more than 7,500 miles before changing oil.

The company lengthened warranty coverage on the affected engines to handle the problem, even before some owners filed a class action lawsuit, Kwong said.

Nissan Motor Co. recommends changing oil in its Nissan and Infiniti vehicles every 7,500 miles or six months — unless the vehicle is used mainly for towing, trips of five miles or less in normal temperatures, 10 miles or less in freezing temperatures, stop-and-go driving in hot weather or low-speed driving for long distances, in which the oil should be changed every 3,750 miles or three months, spokeswoman Katherine Zachary said.

And for some engineers and mechanics, 5,000 miles is too long to wait.

Drivers must take the weather and how much freeway driving they do into account before deciding when to change their oil, said Danny Beiler, part owner of an auto repair garage in Sarasota, Fla.

Freeway driving is less harmful to oil than driving in the city, but in Sarasota, the heat places nearly all cars under severe driving conditions that warrant more frequent changes, Beiler said.

“I have a problem with telling people 7,000 because you know they’re going to go over that. I’d rather err on the side of being cautious and tell them to do it early.”

Dewey Szemenyei, marketing manager for passenger car motor oil additives for Afton Chemical Corp., said he still changes the oil in his 1998 Toyota Sienna minivan every 3,000 miles.

“I really feel it’s great insurance,” said Szemenyei, whose company makes additives that go into motor oils and who chairs a Society of Automotive Engineers committee on engine lubrication.

“There’s not what I consider a right answer. However, if you go with the owner’s manual recommendation you should in general not have any problems,” he said.
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Old 03-22-2007, 09:32 AM
Tochatihu Tochatihu is offline
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Re: Reminder: Change oil every ... 12,000 miles?

12k miles is now my typical change interval in the 2001 Prius. Has in the past been with Mobil synthetics, but now I await a case of "Pennzoil Platinum for Hybrids 0W20" in the mail.

From mine and other posted Prius used oil analyses, the engine wear metals stay very low, the viscosity holds up fine, and we are just down to the last little bit of 'total base number' at that time. I have seen no analyses that support extended change intervals with 'conventional' refined oil.

Always naggin on folks to get that oil analyzed, and now those data are beginning to accumulate. It is a great way to pick up problems early, though I admit that 12k intervals might not qualify for 'early'. One can always pull of a midpoint sample if you want get really into it.

Over the life of the car, it's really not that many gallons of hydrocarbons not purchased and recycled, but we talk about small things here right?

But don't let this sort of long oil change interval keep you from more frequent inspections of all those underbody systems. That's where safety happens.

DAs
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Old 03-22-2007, 09:58 AM
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Re: Reminder: Change oil every ... 12,000 miles?

I'm setting up for annual oil changes (12,000 - 15,000 miles) on both our vehicles using Mobil1's Extended Performance Synthetic 5W-30 and K&N oil filters.
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Old 03-22-2007, 12:25 PM
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Re: Reminder: Change oil every ... 12,000 miles?

i did annual/15kmi changes on my grand wagoneer for 7 years. it now has 200,000 miles on it. runs great!

oh yeah, amzoil 10w30.

the insight gets changed each 7500 miles/6 months with mobil-1 0w20.
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Old 03-23-2007, 08:34 AM
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Re: Reminder: Change oil every ... 12,000 miles?

Filter at 12,000 and oil with filter at 24,000 (or one year) on Toyota Solara (28,000) and Nissan Frontier(110,000). Amsoil 5-30 and Amsoil filter.

Amsoil filter at 12,000, 24,000, and oil and filter at 36,000 on the 2000 Honda Insight(147,000.) Amsoil Series 2000 0-30 with Amsoil filter.
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Old 03-23-2007, 03:32 PM
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Re: Reminder: Change oil every ... 12,000 miles?

Hi All:

___Mobil1 0W-20 w/ a Champion Labs - SuperTech from Walmart in all my vehicles. 15K for the Accord. Ranger every 6 - 9 months given she only does short around town jaunts the last few years. The MDX sees 10K miles. The wife just doesn’t drive right The Corolla is now in my sons hands and I am not sure what his exact intervals are. I do see he sneaks out 4 quarts of my 0W-20 stash every 3 or so months however

___Good Luck

___Wayne
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Old 03-23-2007, 08:54 PM
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Re: Reminder: Change oil every ... 12,000 miles?

I've been changing every 3-5K miles because the importance has been beat into my head:
  • purges the dirt
  • purges the acid
  • purges the water (under high pressure it's sludge)
How do you do an oil analysis?
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Old 03-23-2007, 09:48 PM
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Re: Reminder: Change oil every ... 12,000 miles?

Quote:
Pennzoil Platinum for Hybrids 0W20
drats! and i just ordered some Mobil 1 Tri-Synthetic Motor Oil with SuperSyn Formula ! maybe next oil change... i wonder if its just a marketting ploy...

i found some info http://www.canadianautoreview.com/Ac...s.htm#platinum
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Old 03-25-2007, 08:01 AM
Tochatihu Tochatihu is offline
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Re: Reminder: Change oil every ... 12,000 miles?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta Flyer View Post
...
How do you do an oil analysis?
Here is one lab, but there are many alternatives:

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/

You get a sample bottle and mailer from them in advance. Take oil sample from warm engine, ideally w/o burning your hands. $20 for the general analysis, add $10 for total base number (TBN). I would be interested in seeing TBN from any extended oil change interval on any hybrid veh.

DAS
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Old 03-25-2007, 08:32 AM
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Re: Reminder: Change oil every ... 12,000 miles?

I'm a big maint. freak. With that said I do 10k mile changes in the Civic and Accord with M1 0w-20 in the Civic and a mix of 0w-20 and 5w-20 in the Accord. I use PureOne or M1 oil filters. I also change tranny fluids every third oil change. I wont push my Honda motors much past 10k miles. I can start hearing them. Honda engines are like children. They should be looked at and admired. Not heard! The Ranger hates M1 or any of the other syn's. So it get's the Motorcraft oil and filters. The 5MT does get M1 ATF.

Speaking of the Motorcraft oil. Im really thinking about changing the Hondas over to it and running 7500 mile changes. Along with there filters or PureOnes. Or blend in a group IV with a Motorcraft oil. I really like M1. But the price is starting to whizzz me off. And theres some rumor that they have dropped base stock quality. IE group III.

A M1 DIY oil change is costing me around $35 to $40 bucks a whack. I really don't think the oil is worth the $5.00 bucks plus a qt. More like $3.00 a qt. Its a real conflict on my part.

psy
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