The Sonata On Trial

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

It's a sextuple win.

- You've just earned a reputation as an all-round awesome guy. Most excellent work Chris.
- The owner has been convinced that they haven't bought a lemon. As anybody who has bought a new car knows, it's a lot of money to spend and it must be horrible to think you've wasted it.
- You have defended the Sonata from something that could have unfairly harmed its reputation. I hope the owner will now be as vociferous in his praise as in his criticism.
- You have clearly demonstrated that basic urban hypermiling can save dramatic amounts of fuel. Within that you have demonstrated techniques to an individual who will benefit financially from the assistance for the rest of his life. $130 per year on gas alone on short trips (and at current prices, not projected prices) and further savings on maintenance.
- You have clearly demonstrated that you can apply urban hypermiling techniques without increasing journey time.
- You have also shown just how poor standard gasoline vehicles are in dense urban traffic and that hybrid and electric technologies can have a much greater impact in urban areas than the EPA ratings might suggest.

Again, most excellent and unselfish work, Chris.

[ALS]

Great write up Chris.

I may only have a three mile ride to and from work but it is a nightmare on fuel economy.
Six traffic lights, six stop signs, one Light Rail crossing, speeds vary between 25 and 35 mph and hills. I understand what the OP was going through and didn't understand his morning drive wasn't normal in any respect to EPA mileage figures.

[phoebeisis]

ItsNotAbout is dead on.
Hybrids really really shine in city driving.
My wife and son make absolutely no hypermiling effort, but they get 40 mpg with the Prius in pure short trip city driving.
They got 22 mpg with an AT Corolla, and 12 mpg with a Pilot-same trips same methods - so the Prius practically doubles their FE.

The only problem with this Hyundai is it isn't a Prius.Granted a Prius is maybe $3000 more and it is a pretty nerdy boring appliance type car.
Unfortunately for future Prius buyers the great Prius deals will die when gas hits $3.50 or so.

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Originally Posted by phoebeisis

ItsNotAbout is dead on.
Hybrids really really shine in city driving.
My wife and son make absolutely no hypermiling effort, but they get 40 mpg with the Prius in pure short trip city driving.
They got 22 mpg with an AT Corolla, and 12 mpg with a Pilot-same trips same methods - so the Prius practically doubles their FE.

The only problem with this Hyundai is it isn't a Prius.Granted a Prius is maybe $3000 more and it is a pretty nerdy boring appliance type car.
Unfortunately for future Prius buyers the great Prius deals will die when gas hits $3.50 or so.

The jump in prices could be unfortunate for buyers of all hybrids. However, at least now there's more competition. In 2008 the Prius had the market to itself. Now, by the time gas reaches $4 nationwide there should be the Insight, Prius, HCH, FFH and HSH*, besides improved ICEVs. Any markup in Prius prices makes the Insight better at the lower end and the more refined mid-size vehicles will seem less expensive. There also the LEAF, Volt, upcoming Focus BEV and a much bigger supply of used 2nd Gen Priuses.

Besides the point that people in dense urban environment will benefit more from hybrids than they might expect, it also raises the question as to just how well a hybrid would do there. I'd love to see Chris repeat the experiment in the HSH, FFH and Prius.

* I'm ignoring the TCH. It's getting old and outshone.

[MaxxMPG]

Originally Posted by ItsNotAboutTheMoney

I'd love to see Chris repeat the experiment in the HSH, FFH and Prius.

I'm up for the challenge. Hyundai/Ford/Toyota can send an eligible vehicle to their east coast press fleet and I will repeat the same commute (that I should probably nickname The Dyspepsia Challenge). Driving that route every day will definitely give you indigestion.

I offered to drive my 22mpg-rated Chevy on the same route to see what my car does when driven under the same conditions in the same way, but the owner stated it would not be necessary. He was satisfied with the evidence and agreed that the car is within spec.

That same owner was encouraged to visit here, start a mileage log to track fuel usage and costs, and freely ask questions as he begins his adventure of improving fuel economy. I hope he takes me (us) up on the offer because there's much to gain and nothing to lose.

When he said that CleanMPG was the first and only site to respond with an offer to help, I felt a bit of pride. This is indeed the only site that contains such a wealth of information and real world experience, spread over so many individuals who are so willing to freely share with anyone who wants to explore and learn. I am sure that readers here will enjoy this article and remember our mission when new members join the community. Always offer to help, or direct them to members who are able to help. No matter how impressive our tank averages may be, our dedication to reduced fuel usage will be multiplied as we teach and encourage others to do the same.

[ksstathead]

Great job, Chris. And kudos to the owner for being so open to the evidence.

Can you comment, Chris, on your estimate of what the car will give using a few more techniques: higher psi, FAS at long stops, grill blocking, ebh, fuel cut via downshifting, etc?

Also, which additional techniques would you suggest for that commute? Was the owner going to try some of said techniques?

[MaxxMPG]

Originally Posted by ksstathead

Great job, Chris. And kudos to the owner for being so open to the evidence.

Can you comment, Chris, on your estimate of what the car will give using a few more techniques: higher psi, FAS at long stops, grill blocking, ebh, fuel cut via downshifting, etc?

Also, which additional techniques would you suggest for that commute? Was the owner going to try some of said techniques?

If I lived in the same house and worked at the same place, I would take the train on any clear day. The walk from home to the station is about 5 minutes, then hop off a few stops later and it's maybe 10 minute walk to the work location. Not a drop consumed. But that's me. Most people who purchase a new car will drive it rather than paying train fare while the car sits at home serving as a rest area for passing seagulls.

I suspect the car would beat 22, even in that traffic, with nothing more than simple FAS. It's not flat towable, so the engine must remain on if the car is moving, but there's no harm in a little key twisting while sitting at the lights. We spent three minutes at one of those traffic lights, and I was watching the average MPG drop like a stone. A little NICE-on would work for some stretches in order to lessen the effect of the smart alternator dragging speed down during off-throttle travel. With the fuel cut parameter properly set, I'd use the SGii to downshift and hunt for DFCO to help get back some of what was lost getting up to speed. The traffic is not only dense but incredibly chaotic. If there is a way to predict what will happen 400 feet down the road, I haven't figured it out yet. DWB is the best ally, but can be foiled by a half dozen other cars ahead that that are apparently on suicide missions. I watched one drive diagonally across the road from right to left, without a signal, and then stop - blocking the two open lanes (with the third already out of commission due to parked cars). In that case, DFCO is the last resort before pressing the brake and throwing away what you built up.

The subject car is parked outside in a common parking area, away from an available outlet. So a block heater is not likely a practical option.

I've already had the grille off my Sonata to replace the tricycle horn they install at the factory with some DevilGetOuttaMyWay blasters. It is very easy to remove the grille (once you read the manual) to install some sort of attachment for a grille block. I suspect the car would respond well to it and minimize the losses of warmup.

The Sonata responds well to changes in tire pressure. I wouldn't say what pressure I would use for starters, but the mathematicians in the crowd can determine an approximation by multiplying pi over two by a number visible when staring at the front door sill on the left side of the car.

If the Sonata in question were mine, I see no reason why I wouldn't get to 24 or 25 on that same commute at that same level of traffic. Beyond that, I'd DWL and P&G the hell out of it on the highway, taking advantage of the 50 PSL within NYC limits, and boost the tank average by spending a little time on some more open roads. Let me reinforce the original statement that few living outside of a major city have ever seen traffic conditions this Sonata endures on a daily basis. Under these conditions, getting anywhere near EPA takes some skill and absolute concentration.

The owner was already exploring some of the techniques during the last test, and noted the promising results. I suspect he will continue to experiment to find what works best. He tracks fuel costs and consumption very carefully, so he is already aware of the benefits available. His original frustration was likely due to the change in car - from a Civic to a Sonata - and each of the two respond quite differently to various fuel saving strategies. A few hours on a sunny afternoon revealed some tips to head him in the right direction, and I am confident he will stay with it and improve future tanks averages.

[Ophbalance]

I would have to agree with others, the Prius would likely have been a better choice for the OP. I'm loving the fact that although I could get my Elantra into the low 40 MPG for an average, my wife would quickly drop that back to the mid 30's as soon as she touched it. With the Prius she can at least get into the low 50s for most long drives (I don't drive more than 12 miles daily anymore, she has most of the longer drives).

[phoebeisis]

Maxx
Yes you should be proud of how you and other forum members responded.
No one called him a liar- despite the horrible numbers for someone who said he was trying to get good FE with a car that is well known to deliver good FE.
I just didn't know what to make of it- kinda figured it was 49/49/2 Horrible commute vs liar vs defective car.
It was unlikely the car was off spec.

Yes you did a great job.
I do seem to remember you have frequently mentioned- other threads-(you or ItsNotAbout???)that small 4 cyls in heavish cars are pretty tricky to get good FE out of in pure urban frequent acceleration situations.
Charlie
PS It is a pretty car- looks a bit like a BMW.The Japanese took 40 years to get the styling down- Koreans seem to have done it in 20 years. Japanese styling was OK when they copied the EUROs, but absolutely weird(SCIFI like) when left to their own devices.Japanese are currently copying the EUROS.

[PaleMelanesian]

This is great! I must use this in my next explanation of hypermiling. "Every time you brake to a stop, you're wasting enough energy to destroy the whole front end of your car."