Is the future of greener cars riding on clean diesels & diesel/hybrids?

[Chuck]

These new vehicles will be as clean and fuel-efficient as gasoline hybrids, but with much more power.

R. M. Schneiderman - NEWSWEEK - Oct 11, 2010

This may be the bridge tech while EVs are perfected. --Ed.

Decades from now, electric cars may come to dominate the auto industry. But when the first mass-market all-electric vehicles hit showrooms in the coming months, high prices coupled with limited range and little to no ability for quick and convenient recharging means that the next generation of green cars will likely be a mishmash of old and new technologies. Many will be powered in part by a fuel with a dirty reputation: diesel.
Often derided as loud and foul--smelling in the United States, in Europe diesels have long been popular. Over the past five years, a new generation of clean cars has emerged, and the newest iterations are only getting better. Next year, Peugeot and Mercedes will introduce the first diesel-hybrid vehicles to the mass market. Volvo and Peugeot will follow suit with plug-in versions in 2012 and 2014. ... [Read More]

[msirach]

. Is the future of greener cars riding on clean diesels & diesel/hybrids?

No

[scottd]

. Is the future of greener cars riding on clean diesels & diesel/hybrids?

Maybe not diesel/hybrids, but by saying no to Diesels is short sighted for everyone. The first car company to sell a 1.6L Diesel will sell more than a similar gas car with any other engine. IMHO

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Originally Posted by scottd

Maybe not diesel/hybrids, but by saying no to Diesels is short sighted for everyone. The first car company to sell a 1.6L Diesel will sell more than a similar gas car with any other engine. IMHO

There's not that much room to sell small diesels on a large scale. If Toyota do release a small Prius in NA the room will shrink dramatically until the diesel emissions controls systems are made cheaper. For example, the VW Golf has a $4,700 diesel premium.

There will always be space for diesels for a company that's willing to push it, just because of the different driving characteristics, but getting volume is always going to be about cost.

Maybe VW can reduce the premium once their Mexican engine plant comes online. They're probably in the best position to expand diesel.

[seftonm]

Originally Posted by ItsNotAboutTheMoney

For example, the VW Golf has a $4,700 diesel premium.

How do you arrive at that conclusion? Comparing cheapest gas to cheapest TDI isn't appropriate since the TDI has more features. Using the same comparison methodology on the Camry would indicate that the hybrid system adds a $6000 premium and we all know that isn't true. VW America's trim levels are all screwed up, but using the Canadian car as a reference shows the TDI is about a $2300 CAD upgrade. So I would expect the TDI to be somewhere around $1500-$2000 USD more than the 2.5 when equipped roughly the same.

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Originally Posted by seftonm

How do you arrive at that conclusion? Comparing cheapest gas to cheapest TDI isn't appropriate since the TDI has more features. Using the same comparison methodology on the Camry would indicate that the hybrid system adds a $6000 premium and we all know that isn't true. VW America's trim levels are all screwed up, but using the Canadian car as a reference shows the TDI is about a $2300 CAD upgrade. So I would expect the TDI to be somewhere around $1500-$2000 USD more than the 2.5 when equipped roughly the same.

Thanks for the correction. That's closer to European differences. US forced upgrades are:
- knob leather
- bluetooth
- 6-cd stereo
- floormats
- 17" alloys
- sports suspension

[scottd]

Originally Posted by msirach

No

Originally Posted by seftonm

How do you arrive at that conclusion? Comparing cheapest gas to cheapest TDI isn't appropriate since the TDI has more features. Using the same comparison methodology on the Camry would indicate that the hybrid system adds a $6000 premium and we all know that isn't true. VW America's trim levels are all screwed up, but using the Canadian car as a reference shows the TDI is about a $2300 CAD upgrade. So I would expect the TDI to be somewhere around $1500-$2000 USD more than the 2.5 when equipped roughly the same.

Thanks for helping me out. I just want more choices. Give the customer options and let them choose. It seems to be working out for VW.

[seftonm]

That's a lot of upgrades. The Canadian one isn't available in the lowest trim level so I think the TDI is stuck with the leather shift knob, bluetooth, 6-cd stereo, and floormats here too as I think those all come with the mid trim. But at least we're not forced into the bigger tires. I'm not sure which suspension tune we get, would like to try out an American TDI to see some time if it's similar to mine.

[seftonm]

Originally Posted by scottd

Thanks for helping me out. I just want more choices. Give the customer options and let them choose. It seems to be working out for VW.

Yes, I'm glad to see that 80%+ of Sportwagon sales are TDIs. Now if only they could get the same take rate on the Golf and Jetta sedan...

[xcel]

Hi Mike:

The 11 TDI's are really de-contented compared to the 10's even though they are larger. That 100 pound loss came from the interior by all appearances. More FE however.

Back to the question at hand, other than the 2.0L VW's, they are the only diesel fuel misers available over here. The 3.0L stuff is simply chest beating but they do not sell as well as the 3.0L and larger gasoline engines in the same cars for some reason? Gas vs. diesel prices thanks to the taxes surely?

We’ll see if Mazda follow s through with their 2 + L Sky-D in two years. A 3-Series with that engine could be pretty hot

Good Luck

Wayne