User Name Password    
CleanMPG, Learn to raise fuel economy and lower emissions in whatever you drive.  
MENU
• What is hypermiling? •
CleanMPG to AAA:
• Hypermiling Rebuttal •
 
Home
CleanMPG Staff
Articles
Fuel Economy Forums
      • Register
Go Hypermiling!

   Car Reviews:

2013 Elantra GT

2013 Elantra Coupe

2013 Lexus ES 300h

2013 Mazda CX-5


2013 Lexus GS 450h

2012 Prius c

2013 Malibu Eco

2012 Hyundai Accent
   Bike and Gear Reviews:

HTC Thunderbolt

2010 R 1200 GS (A)

Kawasaki KLX250SF

Zero S


Aerostich Darien

Shoei Hornet DS

Honda CRF230L

Yamaha XT250


More Reviews
Gallery
Mileage Logs
 
CleanMPG Store
 
Calendar
Glossary
Garage
Files
 
Research
Related Sites
 
Archives
Arcade
 
Monthly Fuel Efficient •
Vehicle Sales Figures


ScanGauge with X-Gauge: $159.95

Pre-programming, a CleanMPG laser cut decal, and shipping included!



Even better value for members only is available in the latest SG-II w/ X-Gauge Group Buy purchase thread.



While we strive to provide only the highest quality information through our members' offerings, if you find the information provided valuable, please consider a donation so that we can offer an even better experience for the membership and guests well into the future.

Thank you

-Wayne Gerdes
Owner/Admin
CleanMPG



Home Fuel Economy Forums Gallery Mileage Logs

Register FAQ Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   CleanMPG Forums » Information » Articles


Articles CleanMPG Articles discussion.
Only Moderators may start threads, but anyone can read and respond to them.

Welcome to the CleanMPG forums.

Some posts may describe situations which may in some cases be unsafe or illegal in some jurisdictions. Please use common sense and consult your local laws to make sure you do not hurt yourself or others or break any laws.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view discussions, articles and access our other features. By joining our community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact support.

My Observations Regarding Why the US Leads in Energy Consumption.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   Submit to Clesto Submit to Digg Submit to Reddit Submit to Furl Submit to Del.icio.us Submit to Spurl
Old 01-26-2007, 04:44 PM
tarabell tarabell is offline
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Vehicles: 2006 Honda Civic Hybrid
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,256
My Observations Regarding Why the US Leads in Energy Consumption.

The below was originally written with reference to this thread:
http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/envir...-usa-3274.html

Besides gasoline, I believe much of the US’s status as front runner can be attributed to the recent acceleration of energy and resources going to residential and commercial construction, and a much greater volume of goods and electronics. We build so much bigger structures these days that require more lumber, wire, nails, pipes, plastic, and concrete—and more heating, cooling and maintaining. And then we stuff them with so many more energy-using and -intensive consumer goods that didn’t exist before. I think in the last 10 years the US seems to have eclipsed even the giant leap it made after WWII. So I’m talking about the energy this construction and goods cost us directly or indirectly, apart from “just” vehicle gasoline consumption. Most of the below is from personal observation, not from any official source but I’m sure it’s not a new concept to anyone, either. I think maybe we’ve just underestimated the extent of space-creep and power-creep that’s happening in our personal lives, and the standard this is setting for the rest of the world.

First, look at the typical new housing development that I’ve seen sprouting everywhere the last few years. A 2500 sq ft house is now considered at the small or “starter” end. I haven’t seen one without at least one bathroom per bedroom. Every master bedroom seems to have 2 walk in closets and usually a dressing area. Master bathroom, don’t even ask, is going to have 2 sinks and sometimes the toilet gets its own room. Children don’t share a room anymore because they each need their own TV, PC and stereo, so got to have a bedroom per kid plus a separate office or hobby room for the parents’ activities. With that you usually get a living room no one uses with a high cathedral ceiling, plus a “family room” where we prefer to hang out. The family room is going to have a flat screen plasma or LCD TV and probably a home theater system and satellite dish—that alone probably needed a separate circuit breaker. In the kitchen the cook wants a commercial Wolf-type range with 30,000 btu burners, granite quarries are pillaged for a kitchen counter we can set a hot pan on and we won’t go into the side-by-side that delivers hot and cold running water and ice without opening the door—noted as an energy saving convenience. (I know refrigerators and other appliances have gotten more efficient over the years but I don’t care if everything has an “energy star” label on it, check off a couple extra circuit breakers just for the kitchen.)

Now—I better say up front that I’m not knocking the person who feels they’ve earned their right to buy the house, the space, the conveniences and the toys they’ve worked hard for, they can afford, and their family undoubtedly deserves. We are in fact blessed to be so fortunate that we can afford them, as opposed to 90% of the rest of humanity. Just pointing out how Americans have so many choices available, that they don’t seem like “choices” anymore, but necessities. We’ve now all been taught to buy the biggest house we can afford, and that to be discriminating consumers we must buy only the best. So long as you have the space and the money, that mind-set is irresistible.

American-style houses aren’t prevalent (yet) even in First World cities in Europe, Asia and South America. But it’s not taking long—TV and movies always had a way of making whatever they are showing seem like the "norm". The message from Aquos in those cute “lost the golf ball” commercial spots is that their TV is already the cool brand in Europe. The UAE and Malaysia clearly seem to have no hesitation building their astounding commercial, residential and office construction projects the second they have the checkbook to pay for it. Luckily for the world, they have only a fraction of the space and population we do. But it may not be long before Chinese and Indian housewives think their kitchens need a Subzero refrigerator and Wolf range too. Madison Avenue is not going to stand in their way.

It’s not just the new housing to blame for all this energy consumption; it’s the existing ones also. In fact I started thinking about all this last summer when many parts of Los Angeles started having blackouts never seen before—mostly in older neighborhoods like mine that have gentrified. The utility companies tell us the shortages aren’t so much due to a supply shortage, but unexpected demand that occurred within a few short years. It’s what we’ve done to our houses in those few years. LA homeowners have been busy tearing down all their dinky WWII era 1500 sq ft 2 bdrm/1 bath houses and replacing them with the biggest possible house that will legally fit on that lot, usually by building upwards. And it’s not just the extra space added on, it’s all the other goodies that didn’t exist then or were considered too expensive: central a/c, alarm system, electric driveway gate, flat screen, satellite dish, PC, wi-fi, fax, halogen lights, convection oven, wine cooler, trash compactor and whirlpool tub. I can see this for myself. My house is one of the remaining originals (going on almost 100 yrs old) and while the electrical was updated in the ‘60s, I can trip the breaker for the entire upstairs just by using my blow-dryer while the bathroom heater’s on. It’s clear the power substations built around these old neighborhoods never anticipated this happening when these tracts were built 60-90 years ago, and updating that power supply infrastructure is going to be slow and expensive. Still, the home equity boom wasn’t just in LA; that was pretty much national. The rise in home prices over the last 10 years made hundreds of thousands of home owners able to afford updating their homes in previously unimaginable ways.

Sometimes I think of just the small things like how many cell phones we recharge every night that we didn’t have 10 years ago. This data I looked up. The US had 34 million cells in 1995. In 2004 it jumped to 163 million, a five-fold increase. Sure, Hong Kong is #2 in cell phones per capita (after the UAE) and the US is way down the list (#57) but consider—Hong Kong has only about 7 million people.

Now, let’s leave the house and go shopping.

The grocery store is too far to walk to because most recently-built suburban tracts were designed as a winding maze of cul de sacs, with no direct path to a major boulevard. Plus you’d have to (unsafely) walk through an acre of asphalt parking lot just to get in the front door. So even living in a small town you need a car, often one for each driving member. You don’t see this situation in many places but the US. I haven’t yet seen a “small” WalMart, though I hear they’re now using greener construction techniques and hybrid trucks. Ralph’s and even Whole Foods are twice as big as the supermarkets I remember from the ‘60s. And they’re all putting in bakeries and Coffee Beans, even banking services in them. Every few miles down the road of course, expect to see a big box store like Home Depot, Costco or Target. All with high, high ceilings. I used to buy office supplies at this quaint place called a stationery store, usually located in the back of a print shop. Well they went on steroids too. And for some reason, no matter how big they build a Cheesecake Factory—and we have one in LA that’s so big it has an escalator to the 2nd level—I’ve yet to see one without a mob of people waiting outside (huddled around the heat lamps of course) all staring at their pagers.

Then there are the enclosed malls, with a department store anchoring each end, and dozens of stores in between. Because the malls, like our kitchens, fell into the trap of following the latest consumer trends, every 20 years they look outdated and have to be revamped. So we use more resources for those cosmetic updates, plus think of the extra energy impact each time they feel compelled to add an atrium, an indoor ice-skating rink or an IMAX theater. The way these malls are configured with their moat-like parking lots, nobody is going to be walking to one of these either. I’ve seen some fancy large indoor malls in Hong Kong, mixed in with the skyscrapers, but so far they are much more space-dense, go underground in a lot of cases, and most people get to them by public transit.

I recently walked through a new um, doll store in our local mall with my daughter over Christmas, called “American Girl”. I have to say our jaws were on the floor. Actually, calling American Girl a doll store is an understatement, almost a joke. Barbie (my previous standard for conspicuous consumption) doesn’t even begin to compare with AG. This doll store first off is on 3 levels and about the size of a small department store. To give you a better visualization, its predecessor in that space—FAO Schwartz—was half the size. AG has of course the usual room after room of their large plastic dolls for sale, and all their brothers, sisters, friends, clothes and accessories, but there’s also a room dedicated just to full-size girl’s clothing, so the owner can buy an outfit to match her doll’s. It has a beauty salon with 3-4 staff doing nothing but shampoos, blow dry and styling, uh—for the dolls. It has a bookstore devoted to all the books and games involving each character doll. There is also a café serving brunch, lunch, dinner, afternoon tea and separate rooms for birthday parties. But wait, there’s more: There is a doll hospital where they take and fix/restore broken dolls back to their original condition. There is a museum dedicated to all the various dolls and their stories, arranged in little showcase vignettes. There is a photo studio where you can have your portrait taken with your doll in front of a variety of backgrounds. Finally, the store has its own Broadway-quality theater that puts on full-scale productions based on the dolls’ stories twice a day—complete with actors, music, costumes, lighting and sound. You can buy a whole day’s birthday package for your child, friends and their dolls, including beauty salon, lunch, cake, party and theater show. The word “pilgrimage” has often been used as a descriptor of such a trip. Makes FAO Schwartz look like rookies.

So I can’t begin to estimate the level of resources being consumed--just due to American Girl-- that were never consumed before it existed. Again, whether a store like this is good, worthwhile or necessary is in the eye of the beholder, but regardless, it exists, and appears to be popular with children, and (necessarily) their parents with $. (Sarcasm leakage alert: that’s because AG’s genius marketing strategy positions their dolls as more “home spun”, historically accurate and even educational; thereby avoiding the appearance of any uh, superficial materialism). Only three of these stores exist --so far. The current Chicago flagship store will however shortly (what else) expand into 52k sq ft of space (the old Lord & Taylor department store). And there are two more planned for Dallas (22.5k sq ft) and Atlanta (only 12k sq ft)

Adults, I don’t need to mention, have their own retail therapy centers such as Bloomingdales and Nordstrom’s, Circuit City or Best Buy, which are far more numerous than AG. I can’t think of another European or Asian retail chain that compares with ours in numbers and size of stores. Another shrine of construction and consumption I’m tempted to discuss is Las Vegas but don’t think I can even begin to describe the resources I see being flushed—I mean, used—in its present incarnation. I may be flying close to the sun here, but considering its location in a desert, it’s hard for me not to see similarities between it and Dubai. No wonder the American consumer holds up not only the US’s but indirectly, the world’s economy when we have temples like these devoted to them. As far as the energy that has to service all this production however, it’s starting to remind me of the old joke about trying to pump gas into an idling Hummer.

So that’s why when I read about our “footprint” relative to other countries, I think of these communities of huge houses, kitchens and electronics, the retail centers filled with big box stores, the malls and super-sized restaurants…the cell phones plugged in every night…and consider how more of these are being born every day in suburb after suburb and state after state in this wide and vast country of ours.

It probably has something to do with why I get an irrational thrill when I can glide silently for the last 40 feet in autostop into a face-out parking spot.
__________________
Whatever you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it.
- Mahatma Gandhi



Last edited by tarabell : 01-27-2007 at 03:07 PM. Reason: typos etc
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2   Submit to Clesto Submit to Digg Submit to Reddit Submit to Furl Submit to Del.icio.us Submit to Spurl
Old 01-26-2007, 07:15 PM
xcel's Avatar
xcel xcel is offline
PZEV, there's nothing like it :)
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Vehicles: Accord, Ranger, and anything else ;)
Location: Northern Illinois
Posts: 42,659
Re: My Observations Regarding Why the US Leads in Energy Consumption

Hi Tarabell:

___Goodness gracious was that an article and a half! Straight to the point and right between the eyes!

___Thank you for posting this great insight as it should make most think a lot harder about our current lot in life and our present conspicuous consumption here in the US. ¾ of what you posted I am guilty as charged. Except for my low consumption based - under clocked Celeron equipped PC and its 20” - 16 X 9 LCD monitor that is. Whoops, 15 years ago I didn’t have one of those either!

___Your article reminds me of the many discussions my wife and I have had about our future retirement/next home. I am one who would not mind in the least living in a much more modest 3 bedrooms, 1.5 baths and all of 1,180 sq. ft.. A full basement is a must so as to hold the Home Theater, PC’s, and toys but in reality, this is more then I need. My wife on the other hand doesn’t want to downsize in the least and has her mind set on expanding our current home which is already 3X’s the size it needs to be! Well insulated and efficient or not, it is still too big and a huge waste of resources today. I cannot wait to show her your exquisitely written piece so as to hopefully change her ideas. I have her attention when it comes to Global Warming and our complete waste of energy resources but this article might refocus her attention on the wants vs. needs question far better then I ever could.

___Finally, have your fingers stopped smoking yet

___Good Luck and Thank you

___Wayne
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #3   Submit to Clesto Submit to Digg Submit to Reddit Submit to Furl Submit to Del.icio.us Submit to Spurl
Old 01-27-2007, 02:10 PM
Chuck Chuck is offline
just the messenger
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Vehicles: 2000 Honda Enzyte 5-speed MIMA, CalPod, SGII
Location: Greater Dallas
Posts: 22,878
Thumbs up Re: My Observations Regarding Why the US Leads in Energy Consumption

tarabell,

If a "Best of CleanMPG" was compiled, this thread would have to be on it!

I had an electric lawn mower and may get one again soon.

To illustrate the construction in the Dallas area, the business district: I30 and US75. Timeline of the edge of Dallas:

1945 - US 75 and Mockingbird Lane 4 miles away
1965 - US 75 and Loop 12, 7 miles away
1970 - US75 and I635, 15 miles away
1975 - US75 and Beltline Road in Richardson, 18 miles away
1980 - US75 and FM544 in Plano, 22 miles away
1995 - US75 and Hwy121 in McKinney, 33 miles away
2007 - US75 and US380, 38 miles away

Lots of construction for an area that had maybe 250,000 people in 1945 to about 5.5 million today.

I'm all for growth, but hopefully it can be tweaked so we have a strong market economy and a sound environment.
__________________
All is vanity
Reply With Quote
  #4   Submit to Clesto Submit to Digg Submit to Reddit Submit to Furl Submit to Del.icio.us Submit to Spurl
Old 01-27-2007, 03:00 PM
tarabell tarabell is offline
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Vehicles: 2006 Honda Civic Hybrid
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,256
Re: My Observations Regarding Why the US Leads in Energy Consumption

That’s funny I come back wondering where the post went and if it got deleted for wasting bandwidth.

There are of course other sides to this coin--I picked the side uppermost in my mind right now. All this retail activity obviously keeps many of us in jobs. A lot of these modern conveniences are things the sick and elderly depend on --so they can stay independent. There is probably more than one little girl somewhere who’s saved her allowance for months to buy one of these dolls and completely cherishes it. We’ve all got our needs for toys and my needs aren’t any “better” than anyone else’s. But I still think so much of what we have--and its cost to our planet--goes unappreciated.
Hehe, Wayne as just one example tell your wife not to peek down our driveway because she’d wonder (rightly) WTH a family with 2 ¼ drivers is doing with 4 cars.
__________________
Whatever you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it.
- Mahatma Gandhi


Reply With Quote
  #5   Submit to Clesto Submit to Digg Submit to Reddit Submit to Furl Submit to Del.icio.us Submit to Spurl
Old 01-29-2007, 01:28 PM
Bruce Bruce is offline
cheapskate
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Vehicles: 1999 Chevrolet Prizm
Location: Boston MetroWest
Posts: 613
Re: My Observations Regarding Why the US Leads in Energy Consumption

Because low prices are made possible by efficiency, low price governs our markets and greater efficiency is made possible by the use of energy, there is very little that you can buy that doesn't ultimately pay for the consumption of energy. The only exception I can think of is organic food grown by Mennonite farmers using draft horsepower. My only solution has been to spend as little money as is practical, save for the latter example.
Reply With Quote
  #6   Submit to Clesto Submit to Digg Submit to Reddit Submit to Furl Submit to Del.icio.us Submit to Spurl
Old 01-30-2007, 12:01 PM
psyshack's Avatar
psyshack psyshack is offline
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Vehicles: Mazda, Honda, Ford
Location: Okmulgee, Ok.
Posts: 3,038
Re: My Observations Regarding Why the US Leads in Energy Consumption

Great write up Tarabell. I enjoyed it!

Im guilty,,, So very guilty.

To think the home I own with its warped floors, no insulsation in the walls, 3 ton A/C, 80k BTU heater. Packed full with 8 running fish tanks, Home theater, four computer, three of which are overclocked 800 mhz or better running 24/7. Tiny house is packed full. Our electric and gas bills are stagering compared to when the house was built with it's four screwin fuse box. Yep only 4 circuts when the home was built. I know for a fact the first owner raised seven children in it. And to think we have no room when our five small grandchildren are there now.

Im trying to hang on to some of the older slower ways by living in a small town. Sure theres a Wal-Mart Super store. Ive never bought gas there tho. I choose to trade at the mom and pop store at the corner and pay five cents more for my gas per gallon and have a chat with the owners. If I have to go to a mall or Best Buy Im like a bull in a china cabnet. In and out, no fuss no muss.

I fear as Tulsa grows I will be pushed out more. We have choosen the long daily drive in a effort to escape Tulsa.

psy
Reply With Quote
  #7   Submit to Clesto Submit to Digg Submit to Reddit Submit to Furl Submit to Del.icio.us Submit to Spurl
Old 02-05-2007, 10:39 AM
Dan's Avatar
Dan Dan is offline
KiloTanked in post 153451
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Vehicles: 2007 Toyota Prius, 2008 Mercury Mariner Hybrid
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 2,293
Re: My Observations Regarding Why the US Leads in Energy Consumption

Quote:
Originally Posted by xcel View Post
___Your article reminds me of the many discussions my wife and I have had about our future retirement/next home. I am one who would not mind in the least living in a much more modest 3 bedrooms, 1.5 baths and all of 1,180 sq. ft.. A full basement is a must so as to hold the Home Theater, PC’s, and toys but in reality, this is more then I need.
OK TeraBell, time to start shopping earth ships. Extreme example, but an interesting idea still.

Thanks for the great post.
Reply With Quote
  #8   Submit to Clesto Submit to Digg Submit to Reddit Submit to Furl Submit to Del.icio.us Submit to Spurl
Old 02-18-2007, 01:06 PM
NEmystic's Avatar
NEmystic NEmystic is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Vehicles: Honda Insight
Location: Westford, MA
Posts: 37
Re: My Observations Regarding Why the US Leads in Energy Consumption

Wow Tarabell, I've been sometimes known for being "longwinded" in writing style, but I think your interesting article may take 1st prize!

I have several nominations to the "Hall of Shame" for increasing dependence on imported fossil fuels and accelerating global climate change, which would include:

-Government subsidy of large corporate oil interests
-Cars left idling (for long periods, with no one inside)
-Collective disregard for posted speed limits
-Unsynchronized traffic signals in high traffic areas
-Intersections and commercial developments inaccessible to bicycles or pedestrians
-Banning of clothes lines (for aesthetic reasons) in some communities
-Use of air conditioning to offset the heat from a fireplace

It's likely that others could offer many additional nominations.
I believe that there's also a contrasting "Hall of Fame" which includes many positive initiatives.
For an interesting contrast to the typical American suburban communities described in the article, check out Vauban, Germany.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1220/p01s03-woeu.html

As a re-committed 3.5 season bicycle commuter, I'm continuing to try to further reduce my own ecological footprint, with minimal use of all non-renewable resources.
But still, when I take the quiz, that footprint seems much too large for this planet's long term survival prospects.

Perhaps one of the greatest gifts we could offer to our children and future generations (by our example) is a clearer understanding of the difference between wants and needs.
__________________
-Brian
...gonEfishnt

Reply With Quote
  #9   Submit to Clesto Submit to Digg Submit to Reddit Submit to Furl Submit to Del.icio.us Submit to Spurl
Old 02-19-2007, 03:09 PM
tarabell tarabell is offline
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Vehicles: 2006 Honda Civic Hybrid
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,256
Re: My Observations Regarding Why the US Leads in Energy Consumption

Hi Brian,

Quote:
Perhaps one of the greatest gifts we could offer to our children and future generations (by our example) is a clearer understanding of the difference between wants and needs.
The best way to convey that understanding, IMO, is by example. When they see you following the process of considering the trade-off, making the decision and accepting whatever consequences, that’s how they learn to do it too.

Quote:
As a re-committed 3.5 season bicycle commuter, I'm continuing to try to further reduce my own ecological footprint, with minimal use of all non-renewable resources.
You might enjoy this link to our local institution in LA known as the “Bicycle Kitchen”.

http://bicyclekitchen.com

One of their missions is providing “free” bicycles; only catch is you earn it by building it from scratch with their help, from donated parts. Back in the day I remember I couldn’t afford a car so I rode my bike to my job at an ad agency. Fond memories. It was on the 27th floor of this high-rise so I had to take my bike up on the service elevator and will never forget the looks I got—some pitying, some envious.
__________________
Whatever you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it.
- Mahatma Gandhi


Reply With Quote
  #10   Submit to Clesto Submit to Digg Submit to Reddit Submit to Furl Submit to Del.icio.us Submit to Spurl
Old 02-19-2007, 05:43 PM
tarabell tarabell is offline
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Vehicles: 2006 Honda Civic Hybrid
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,256
Re: My Observations Regarding Why the US Leads in Energy Consumption

Here are several interesting articles I recently came across just doing a search on “energy hogs”

Quote:
A digital video recorder can consume up to 350 kilowatt hours a year--or half as much energy as a refrigerator--said Noah Horowitz, a senior scientist at NRDC.
http://earthlink.com.com/Energy+hogs...html?tag=st.rn

Quote:
According to the Energy Information Administration, average monthly residential energy consumption has risen to 938 kilowatt-hours in 2006 from 864 kwh in 1998 and 793 kwh in 1990. How much of that rise is from digital-age doodads? I decided to find out, ordering a power meter to help discover the power hogs in my apartment.
http://online.wsj.com/public/article...l?mod=rss_free

This one’s my favorite, though it’s from 2001.
Quote:
"Industry moves, mines, extracts, shovels, burns, wastes, pumps and disposes of 4 million pounds of material in order to provide one average middle-class American family's needs for a year. In 1990, the average American's economic and personal activities mobilized a flow of roughly 123 dry-weight pounds of material a day -- equivalent to a quarter of a billion semi-trailer loads a day."
http://www.mindfully.org/Energy/Ener...son11feb01.htm
__________________
Whatever you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it.
- Mahatma Gandhi


Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
California Leads in Energy Conservation. Chuck In the News 1 12-11-2007 11:45 AM
Alternative Energy - The Next Big Venture Captialism? Chuck In the News 0 01-11-2007 08:21 AM
Electricity consumed to produce/refine a single gallon of gasoline? xcel Fuel 15 01-01-2007 10:41 PM
Renewable Energy Conference with $17.5 Million for Biofuels Research & Development. xcel In the News 0 10-21-2006 10:50 PM
Press Roundtable - U.S. Energy Secretary Bodman & U.S. Agriculture Secretary Johanns xcel In the News 2 09-10-2006 02:03 PM



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:08 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2006 - 2013, Clean MPG LLC. All Rights Reserved.